Saturn Sky Redline
 

I hear it is getting a turbocharged 2.4 litre engine with 253hp. Should be a fun little car. Do you think it will give the Honda S2000 a good run?

Hopefully will be better than the Ion Redline, which was a lackluster effort at best. A turbo Sky/Solstice should have a superior power to weight ratio over the S2000; the real test will come in the chassis design.

It has neither double wishbone nor multi-link suspension, as I recall, but instead short/long arm in the rear and McPherson in the front. I'm thinking it will fall short of the S2000 in overall capability.

however its looks are killer compared to the boring s2000 design.

:rolleyes: Short long arm is double wishbone. Plus every car production suspension is multi-link with the exception of a single link McPherson strut setup.

The Sky uses wishbones front and rear. Just like an NA and NB Miata and every open wheel race car of the last gazillion years.

It looks like an Opel Speedster(?) or something like that. Is it a Saturn original or just a rebranded Euro car?

I think it could do well in that market, but I feel that the S2000 will outperform it in just about every aspect save straight line. The Sky is a pretty sweet car though, can't wait to start seeing them and the Solstices on the road.

253 HP...I seriously doubt it

until the late 90s many of the Saturns didn't even break 100HP!

Heh, tr00f. I think It's possible though, Saturn's Ion Redline was said to have 205 and people were dynoing them around 205 or so :eek: I have confidence that they can hit that power mark. Mmm, it'll have torque too :p

isn't it suppose to be a SUPERCHARGED Ecotec, just like in the ION Redline?

wow...not bad...but we will see...I've never been a fan of saturns after taking a test drive years ago and asking the saleswoman why it sounds like a truck

she says what are you talkign about?

I'm like yea an 18wheeler uninsulated cabin...yes

she looks at me with a blank look

We open up the hood and I could have taken my pocket knife and stabbed a whole in the firewall it was so cheap...I then look under the steering column and no insulation whatsoever

I didn't walk I ran from the dealership

It really depends on what engine they use. The Ion uses a prepped 2.0L Ecotec. The Solstice/Sky use a 2.4L Ecotec. If they prep the 2.4L for boost, 253hp will be easy to obtain, with plenty of room for the aftermarket. If they use the 2.0L, 253hp might be a stretch. They could probably do it, but they'd need to add alot of airflow.

time for Mazda to stick our beloved rotary into the Miata...competition will be interesting :) (especially since the Miata overall is lighter and then you add in the 1.3 Rotary and hot dang :))

i'm actually interested how well the boosted, direct injection 2.3L MZR turbo from the MS6 will work in the NC MX-5 :D

that would be insane :D

I don't think the miata will ever see OEM rotary, but it is an interesting concept. Does anyone know how much the Miata engine weighs? How the Renesis compares weight wise, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure the 4 cylinder will be a bit lighter.

the MX-5's current engine is a 2.0 liter while the RX-8's is 1.3 liter

my guess is dry they are similar if not the same but wet...the MX-5 is heavier

if that is true imagine the power of a the 1.3 liter in the tiny miata...sounds like a Solstic/Sky Kickass idea ;)

Saturated in Urine I mean Saturn is from what I hear trying to be more of a VW style brand over the next few years.

There's gonna be a Shooting Brake Miata in the next couple years (think Miata coupe). Throw the rotary in there, call it an RX-7, and you've got yourself a track car!

There WAS rumor that the new MX-5 was gonna have a rotary option, but that's been eliminated for now.

The Miata weighs 25xx lbs, I believe, which is 2-300 less than the Solstice/Sky. The Solstice/Sky may be able to overcome the Miata in straight line acceleration with a hopped up model in the future, but the Miata will always be able to out handle it. Currently, it smokes it in a straight line, too!

I drove the new MX-5 and it felt nice. Like a lighter version of our RX-8s (which it pretty much is). I'd want the sport suspension and LSD, but I could imagine what it would be like with these options. It had enough power to be considered quick and fun.

The 1.3 and 2.0 don't designate weight though. I'm talking about how much the metal the makes up the engine weights not how much they can hold. I think the Renesis probably is a larger engine as well, taking up a bit more space under the hood.

A Renesis weighs 302 lbs dressed. The NB Miata 1.8 l weighs about 300 lbs +/- 10 lbs dressed and the new 2.0 is claimed by Mazda to be 42 lbs lighter than the 1.8. Therefore the new 2.0 is about 42 lbs lighter than the Renesis. Of course the Renesis has 68 more hp and is not as tall or as long as the 2.0 so maybe both engines have equal inertial contributions to roll and yaw forces. I'll take my Renesis in a red Miata or RX-5 or RX-7 or whatever you want to call it.

it's very possible, espescially if the sky is based off the GM based Vauxhall Lightning:

"The VX Lightning has a new version of Vauxhall’s all aluminium 2.2 ECOTEC engine, reworked with a supercharger to produce a maximum power of 240hp and 305Nm of torque. A six-speed manual gearbox is mated to the new engine, which drives the rear wheels. The chassis incorporates independent suspension, the front end using a simple and reliable strut configuration with a rack and pinion steering."

http://www.cardesignnews.com/news/20...ightning33.jpg

http://www.cardesignnews.com/news/20...ghtning025.jpg

from cardesignnews.com, and this is back in '03

That is a sharp looking car, I like it, but the rear might need a little work. It's over the edge which is something GM needs to do I think. The Solstice and the Sky each have a little bit of that though, at least they're moving in the right direction.

Edit: I forgot to mention, the wheel vents were stolen from the 8, GM can't even think of things on their own :rolleyes: :p

thank you! that is what I was referring too :)

I've never heard the weight specs on the 2.0 but impressive engineering to say the least...yes the compact size and placement could really keep the miata on balance

Mazda just do it ;) :D

Um, excuse me, I'm going to change my pants now......

Just tell me where I can buy THAT car

Keep in mind that the Saturn/Pontiac Sky/Solstice comes no where near the S2000's price range.
If Saturn/Pontiac Sky/Solstice ever come in a Turbocharged platform, I am sure they will be purchased over the S2000's. I know I would take one over an S2k.

The FI version will probably come close to the 30k mark. I really don't doubt it. They would do all sorts of performance upgrades in addition to the turbo/supercharger, probably upgraded leather seats, better stereo, bigger/better wheels, sportier tuned suspension, and other things of that nature. Think about how much the price goes up when it has the Mazdaspeed name on it, or Saleen? The Saleen Mustang isn't much faster than a Mustang GT and it's like 15 thousand dollars more. They know how to make money(well, sometimes) at GM or any other car company.

No doubt it will be a much higher price. But you have got to consider the fact that it looks better than the S2k in most peoples opinions.
I would elaborate more on this but I dont have the time do so right now.

Which Saleen? S-281? S-351? If you are talking about their top of the line S/C 351 Windsor powered Stang.... you're smoking something. That car is fast as hell and would be faster if it didn't make so much damn torque for such a light car right off the line that the magazine drivers couldn't get the rear end to hook up. If I remember correctly they said the damn thing wouldn't hook up until like 3rd or 4th gear... :eek: NOw the 2005 model... it's going to kick serious ass. Granted for that much money I'd just buy a GT and strap on a vortec S/C or wait for the Kenne Bell. The Vortec alone pushes the GT to close to GT500 hp levels. I imagine the Kenne Bell will be even better.

I don't know the model numbers, but it's a 2005. McDonalds is giving one away so i got to play with it before Hot Import Nights. No driving it though :( The power ratings are like the same as the GT I think. Better suspension and better looking, but I don't think the engine got any upgrades, though it's possible I'm wrong. :o

Saleen does both... like Rousch. They do "looks only" cars... bodykit and suspension, and they also do full out cars. If you check their site you'll find that they have a intercooler S/C they're working on (or finally finished) for the 2005 Mustang. Looking as the centrifugal Vortec S/C and the numbers it put out (over 400hp), the 3 valve 4.6 V8 responds very well to mods. Just think... the FACTORY Shelby GT500 is putting out OVER 450hp. What do you think you're going to get out of it with mods?

That's nice :D I was not aware of everything Saleen did. The guy I spoke to about this particular Saleen made it sound like this was the only kind they made as of now. This one was N/A and I'm almost positive the numbers were like 10-15 above stock, but it had Saleen suspension products as well as some other little mods. It didn't do anything for me, but the S/C version sounds very nice. :D

It was at the GM show. My friend drove it and he was impressed. Said it handled well and he owns two Miata's

The Vauxhall VX is another car off the kappa (i think) platform, which underpins the Solstice and Sky. It's just another version and marketed under a different name (what else is new with GM??!!), unfortunately, for Europe only.


As far as someone was mentioning increased price for hopped up versions of those cars, let's see what Mazda does with the MX-5. The Mazdaspeed Miata was a great buy, as it was only ~$1000 more than a standard Miata LS. It was a killer bargain. Considering that you can get that kind of performance (Mazdaspeed Miata) out of the new MX-5, it'll be interesting to see how capable the next Mazdaspeed MX-5 will be, and if it will be at such a minimal increase in price as the last Mazdaspeed version was!

The car shown is a prototype of the VX Lightening from a few years back. The new Sky IS the VX lightening. The concept car came first and then Saturn designed the Sky from that. As the concept will not pass european pedestrian frontal hood crash height requirements, they are going to just import the Sky as the new VX. They are the same car. Saturn is pretty much just picking up vehicles from the Vauxhall/Opel lineup and rebranding it as Saturn for the American market. This is a good thing as the Vauxhall/Opel cars are much more decent and the Saturns have been a pile of poo.

For the Sky, the uprated motor is the 2.0l turbo ecotec which should be a hoot. This motor already exists in the Vauxhall/Opel Astra GTC, except in transverse configuration. This is going to be in the Solstice as well which has already been photographed testing.

In a couple of years I think Saturn will be one of the better American brands with the lineup they will be bringing over. I really hope they do bring over the Astra in its current form or something similar and ditch the Ion.


http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring...stra-gtc-2.JPG

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring...stra-gtc-1.JPG

I'm pretty sure a Renesis-powered NC is still being considered, but there's no point in having it available at launch, just like the turbo Solstice won't be available for a year or two. The NC Miata is about 400 lbs lighter than the Solstice, has about the same hp, a shorter gear ratio, and wins in skidpad, 0-60, 1/4, and 60-0.

A rotary NC would be significantly faster than an S2000.

That would be a wonderfully fun car, just doesn't seem economical for the company. It would cost as much, or more than the RX-8 currently and would not sell all that well. By the way, skidpad numbers don't matter too much, as you can change the tires and give yourself a .5 or .6 boost in that category. Some companys give out very chitty tires OEM. Cough Honda Cough. :p

My bro just picked up a new S2K and same tires as ours :o . So yes.. chitty tires indeed. My ears hurt from this morning.

I agree, skidpad is pretty meaningless, as is slalom since they are so tire dependent. There aren't any good standarized measures of handling ability really. That being said, I would think that the NC will handle slightly better. Myself, I consider whatever car is dominate at nationals in a particular solo2 class to be the best handling amongst those cars. Like the RX-8 being basically superior to the M3, MS Miata, 350Z, G35, and 968 in BS.

Would a rotary NC cost as much as an RX-8? Maybe. But that's not that much more than an NC. What premium would the market support for a rotary in the NC? 3k over? 5k? My guess is that a rotary NC at about 30k would sell quite well. I don't know how much the Renesis costs of make over the MZR, but I would think that the more models Mazda can put it into, the better their hopes at amortizing the R&D costs of the rotary. There are VERY few models nowdays that have an exclusive powerplant.

Both my brother and a few friends have Honda's and my Mom has an MDX. The worst tires on all of them. I guess Honda has to cut costs somewhere. My brother was smart though, he's got a newer set of Potenza S03 tires. Let me tell you, they grip incredibly well, car feels so much better with them. OEM Michelin from Honda ftl.

More sporst cars...more power, better handling...more sexy styles....more choices...

HANG those who speak of less....lol

*gasp* I never thought I'd hear anything like that from you...but I agree :p

lol....hang them I say...lol :p :D

I highly doubt hes talking about the Top of the line.. from what he said it sounds like an S-281 as it is only has an additional 25hp (dont quote me).. its mostly suspension work

No need and I believe it is never going to happen from the factory anyway.

The MZR series motor in the NC is related to the Duratec motor which has proven to be very solid and accdepting of power hikes. In naturally aspirated form they have already been built to handle 240hp by Caterham who puts these motors in their cars with that configuration. I would expect and hope the next Mazdaspeed MX-5 is sans turbo. The other and probably more realistic option they left for themselves is a tuned version of the 2.3l which is also of the same family.

Well the RX-8 doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless Mazda has plans for the rotary in other vehicles. Sure, the chassis is amortized in part by using a derrivative on the NC, but the engine is still exclusive. Currently its thought that a significant amount of investment was put into the Renesis, ie. new castings for virtually every part of the motor. Furthermore, none of the R&D on the Renesis applies to any other Mazda motor, like the MZR. If the commitment to the rotary wasn't there, it would have made a lot more sense to use a Duratec V6 or such in the RX-8. Therefore we have to assume that Mazda:

-plans to offer the rotary in other cars in the future
-plans to sell enough RX-8's to justify an exclusive engine
-plans to take the Renesis R&D as a loss

My bet is the on the first, whether that comes in a rotary NC, a new RX-7, or a new RX-3 is the real question. Rumor has it that a new RX-7 is already designed and has been for a few years, its just waiting for the green light.

I'm sure they will use it in other cars, but I feel they're going to be doing a whole lot more research and development. I don't doubt that if we the the renesis in the Miata it will be the 4 port :( That car would seriously blow the RX8 out of the water with the 6 port. I know it's not in the same class, but price would be the same and they would be competing against each other in a lot of cases. I also think that the 4 port(detuned to something like 150hp) will be seen in cars like the Mazda 3 in the coming years, they need to make their money's worth on this engine. Give them a few years and we might even see a rotary minivan! :p

The rotary engine has certain benefits over a piston engine:

-reliability, due to fewer crucial moving parts
-compact size, allowing for lower/more rearward placement
-smoothness
-high red-line
-sounds different/cool

and certain drawbacks:

-poor fuel efficiency
-time-consuming to produce due to its hand-built nature
-poor torque
-poor power at low rpms
-requires some basic maintanence on the part of the owner (add oil)

Putting the rotary into a luxary sedan, like Amati tried, or in a minivan or small truck doesn't make much sense. All of the rotary's benefits favor its usage in lightweight sports cars. Combined with the fact that the NC's chassis is already a derrivative of the RX-8's (and thus presumably has enough room to house the Renesis), Mazda would be a fool not to put it in the NC.

If you look at the MX-5 marketing over the past few years, its clear that Mazda is trying to 'toughen up' its image, first by adopting the MX-5 moniker in the US market, then by offering the MS Miata and changing the exhaust note, and now by dropping the Miata tag altogether with the NC and increasing hp to 170.

I don't think a rotary NC will happen soon, but I'd wager in 4 or so years we'll see it. RX-8 sales will probably start to decline in the next few years, and unless they launch a new RX-3, they will have unused capacity at the rotary plant. Rumors for the RX-7 are for 2009 or 2010 or even later, so it seems to me they'd want to do something inbetween. I guess that could be the MS RX-8, if they ever finish it.

I am well aware of the shortcomings of the Rotary, but I think it can be used in sedans and minivans to the advantage of the company.
How is the 4 ports gas mileage? :eek: I don't think I ever even cared to ask that. :o I'm sure they can get gas mileage up to around 27-28 on the highway with a detuned version somewhere around 150-160hp and a 6500-7000 redline. I'm assuming you'd burn less oil by not revving as high and making less power, no? I really don't think it is such a bad idea.

depends on the weight of the vehicle. 22-24mpg highway at 3000lbs with 190ish horsepower. It'd have to be significantly lighter to get 28mpg, assuming the same gearing. The auto 8 has a 0.69 top gear, while the manual is .84(?) i think.

I really don't think today's masses are equipped to deal with the eccentricities of the rotary engine. The drive it til the little light comes on, then take it to the dealer attitude just wouldn't work. How many "What's wrong, it won't start" and similar threads would you see on the forums then?