RX-7 FC then to RX-7 FD, or just RX-8??
 

i plan on buying a RX-7 FC to start off in rotary first and learn more about it, then i might get a RX-7 FD after the FC (2-3 years). i know its crazy hard to maintain a RX-7 FD and its especially hard for me since im not a mechanic at all (just basic stuff like changing fuilds and detailing). Or should i go with the rx-8? is the new RX-8 easier to maintian than the old RX-7s? i dont plan on modding unless i really know what im doing with a rotary. i really dont want to dump a few thousand dollars on a car every month to keep it running (rebuilds, turbos, ETC). also i dont plan on driving this as a daily driver (going to be driving parents MPV or Infiniti QX4). oh yeah and BTW this is going to be my first car.

I think a lot of people are going to get on your case about this being your first car, but yes, the RX-8 is easier to maintain than an Rx7.

And good luck finding a decent FD (not been raced or blown-up) in 2-3 years, they are scarce as it is now.

yeah, most of the FDs have new engines because of blown seals or something. A search on ebay shows 90% of the FDs for sale to have very low miles, but upon further reading you'll see that those low miles are on the new engine they replaced...but there's still something like 100k miles on the car.

I'd say get the RX8.

My first car was a '70 Olds Cutlass.... Bought it for $1500. You are getting ready to buy a $30,000+ sports car as your first car??

The RX7's of old are all now project cars. The RX8 is the car you should buy based on your own questions.

Poor you nemesis, I really don't think that saynotopistons wants to hear your crap. I certainly don't as it's the same old shit every young person gets on this site.

WOAH... And just what crap are you talking about? I was making a comparison of my first car to his first choices.

I think it's good advice. Most accidents happen within the first year of driving. I think a base fc is a good first car to start with. After a year or so he could move up to the rx8. I'm sure some families are willing to get their kids a $30,000 first car but it really isn't the best idea. I also wouldn't recommend a rotary car for a first car unless they plan on learning more about the car then looks. Rotaries need more TLC and most 16 year olds can't grasp this concept. At least saynotopistons seems like he wants to learn more then most and if he doesn't mind driving an older car then most definately go with the FC.

this is going to be an award car if i get into a good college with scholarship though. im going to have to pay for half the price of the car and any other repairs myself. the reason i would want to start off with a RX7 FC non-turbo or a RX8 is because they arent as fast as the FD. i want to get used to driving a rotary RWD car before i move up to something faster (the FD). yes i diffenitly expect/want to learn more about rotaries, im planning on maybe going to rotary shops (weekends) and watch them work on the rotaries. someone on rx7club has the samething in mind as me (also around my age) so we plan on learning about the RXs more and we can maybe share what we know with eachother. im not here to thread crap around, im seriously thinking about getting a RX of some kind in the future. i know that most FDs need rebuilding every 50k or less, and they are easily overheated when driven hard which can cause a blown motor. this is why im considering buying the older FC nonturbo or a RX8 so i wont get bankrupt trying to keep a FD in drivable condition. you guys have any ideas where i can learn more about rotary so i can prepare?

www.teamfc3s.org

and i think a NA FC in good condition is a great first car.... good luck finding a good FC :)

i dunno where you heard that, i have friends that autox thier FD's every weekend, they run the stock twins and run a little more boost than stock, the cars dont need that much more attention than any sports car, at least not in money. I would say thats hard driving, with the overheating issue, you can change out some parts to help with that. Ive never owned a rx car, just worked on/driven my friends. For a while i was looking at getting an old TurboII to run as a track car, he was telling me (owned 4 FD's at the time) that with the FD's if you find a stock turbo to buy, youve got a couple thousand dollors of work you SHOULD do to get it in shape to be a reliable daily driver. You've said that the RX8 or whatever you get isnt going to be your daily driver, so maby that doesnt mater as much to you.

Some people are say your gonna 'shoot your eye out kidd' others will tell you to go for it.

Ill throw in my .02 since thats what most of the members will do.

I didnt know much about cars as a kidd, I started out ridding go-karts, then moved to shifter karts, never really did anything major with it, just weekend fun once in a while. I feel that gave me a big edge as far as learning how to work on cars and how to drive them when the work is done. I then got a suv i bought off my parents ( the car had a bad auto trany, so i paid to fix it and the car was mine) I later sold that and bought a used 99 Miata, with money i had saved up when i got out of high school. I started to autox with and do track days with It and it's the car I still drive and plan to sell and get an rx8 with. I knew the basics of cars from working on the go-karts and the suv i had over ther years, working on the Miata taught me a lot more.

Im getting off topic, if you want to learn to work on cars, there are 2 ways IMO :
1) get a car you can drive all the time, and then spend a little cash on a project car, work on that in your spare time, read books and then put the new knowledge to use on the project car.
2) get a car, read books, and put the knowledge to work on your car.

You can see the obvious downsides/upsides to each, at least i hope. I think its clear.

As far as being young and having a $30K car... It doesnt affect me in any way. As long as you dont buy the last 05 Wining Blue Metalic RX8 Touring :)

I will just say that I bought my Miata used with 30K miles on it and it was 4 years old, the car was in perfect shape. It still has never been crashed, although i have done the typical stuff like been backing up in a parking lot and mis-judge a distance and bump a car, casing a small ding or a paint scuff, or opend my door into one of those shopping car cages in a parking lot, or gotten a little curb rash on a car, ect...ect. I love my Miata and sure I was mad about that stuff happening, but I think I would be even more pissed over it if it happend in a brand new car.

Im just saying that even with if you dont crash it or get into anything major, there are just some things you learn with your first car, so if you have the ability to get a car in the 30K price range right off the bat, why not get a different fun car, for a few grand (or even a few hundred) something to get you around your first year, something to learn on/work on. After a year you can trade it in and get an rx8, or sell it and get a rx7 or whatever you want. Thats what I would do if I were in your shoes. But whatever you do, have fun and welcome to the car addition :)

sorry if the above was totaly off topic........i swear i had a point !!!!

:-)

Honestly if your parents are going to pay for a good chunk of the car for you but repairs will be more up to you I'd avoid an FC. Not that they can't be reliable but they're getting pretty long in the tooth at this point. I'd suggest getting something reliable and newer then move on to an RX-8 a few years down the road.

I've been casually shopping for FDs for a few years now, of the 100+ I've seen maybe a couple of them didn't have new engines. It's a problem car unless you fully realize that there's a good chance you will have to drop a few grand at some point to replace the engine. In addition to that there are all the other maintenance things that come with cars that are 10+ years old.

I agree with you about karts, it helped me a ton when I satrted driving and in 14 years have never been in an accident despite being a pretty aggressive driver and owning fast cars from a very young age.

KYLiquid- how much would you think it would cost someone (annually) to maintain a FD in drivable condition, a FD that is pretty much stock and isnt pushed to its limits often (remember, i dont really want to race this car (not into the whole street racing thing) or drive it as a daily driver, maybe go to a friends house with it on the weekends to "showoff").

If you don't have an extra 5 grand laying around in your bank acount at most times an FD is just a bad choice. You're also going to have a very hard time finding one that isn't modded.

is it for the reliability mods and for anything that breaks down?

It's for a new engine in addition to other stuff...

i really think you should avoid the FD as a first car. People that have well maintained FDs are either a) paid lots of money to have work done for them, or b) *really* handy around the car to fix all the age-related problems with the car themselves.

remember, even the 'newest' FDs are 10 years old now. things start to fail on a 10 year old car regardless if it's rotary or not.

Hello, I am SayNoToPiston's friend and after also being on the RX-7 Owners Club Forum, I may get a FC3S GT-X or Turbo II due to it being a good Entry into the Turbo Rotary. I want to start to get into the 13B's and 20B's even though I read up on it for a very long time. I know that the 13B's are pretty hard to maintain and one of the 1st things to do is to check Compression in each rotor. I do not have enough for a new or used RX-8 but I do want to get one of them also, but after I also get a FD3S, which may be when I am around 20 or 25 years of age. and some were telling me to get a Civic but I still have enough knowledge to know how do keep the 13B running. all the RX's are amazing cars and I like their good power/weight ratio, amazing acceleration due to its light weight, and good weight balance.

Clin10

EDIT: Also, I am not going to street race, as I am planning to join the SCCA, so I would like this car to do the Road Courses

If you are really serious about it, the path you should go is

Non-turbo FC --> Turbo FC --> FD

Honestly, if you get everything checked out before you buy, and you do a good job keeping up on the maintenance, there's no reason any of these cars should be a problem. I've talked with several rotary shops, and the concensus is that the vast majority of FD rebuilds they do are simply from people doing really, really stupid things, like boosing 18psi on the stock ECU/fuel system which can only handle 10-12psi. The majority of problems you'll have will be with the twin turbo system, like exhaust leaks, solenoid failures, etc. Seriously, there's so much hate and ignorance towards the rotary on this site sometimes, I could swear I accidentally logged on to nasioc or something. :p

I hate to say this but some people that I talk to about the 13B's try to almost stray me away but it never works due to me already knowing that they also did what you mentioned m477. that is the truth, and it is worse enough that some people who own it stray others away from it. I also think I may go Turbo II~~~>FD3S due to the GTU's and GTUs and other N/A 13B's not having the torque I need here in Jersey. most of my family lives in hills and my doctor's office in up a hill and I don't want to have to hold the redline to do it. I know the TurboII runs about 6-6.5psi stock and that is good enough, but I will mod it lightly so I can race in the road courses and carry my family when I turn 15 (as my grandfather lives in south jersey and we here in north Jersey carpool to save on gas, well, my family anyway) and I already know the regular maintenance of a Turbo car (Oil change around every 2,000 miles, check on boost pressure and hoses before and after a long trip) and I will add a Turbo timer for more safety. I always keep everything immaculate and I will keep my car clean and running strong, no matter how old. even if I get a FB it will be as clean and strong running as any vehicle I may own.

i had a S5 NA FC, it had PLENTY of torque to go up any hill i ask it to, WITHOUT redlining...

who in the hell would do a redline drop to climb a hill :rolleyes:

goddamn high school forum...

yeah. same here. i might do the samething also. ive decided to get a cheap FC n/a or a turbo II if i learn enough. i might get one next year if i find one cheap and if i get good grades. Clin10 and I will work on our cars together and explore the world of rotary sharing info with eachother. im not a big fan of street racing, but i will admit that i will try to smoke a fart can civic out if he picks on my FC. before i do any stupid things like over boosting when the stock ecu/fual system can handle so much, i will go to a professional rotary car shop ask around then i would do some modding. hopfully i can find a decent drivable FC for under $6000 (its going to be hard to find).
edit: anyone in the NY, NJ, LI area want to give lessons on RX's??? over the summer maybe??

Seriously, get a used Miata. Its RWD, it handles great, its incredibly cheap, its holds its value, its easy to work on, they are tons of them. I think its a great first sportscar because its is underpowered somewhat, but it still has a better power-to-weight than alot of classic roadsers, like the T-3 and T-4. The pre 99 cars basically hold their value very well right now. I bought a 96 miata a few years ago, it got totalled 2 years later, and I got $1000 more than I paid for it back from the insurance company. Since its underpowered, it will force you to learn to be a smooth driver and focus on handling to make the car fast. If you have any stretch of twisty road near your house, the miata is a car that will have you thinking 'man I can't believe this little car is this quick.' Its also a car that you can actually drive on the street (in the right conditions, ie no traffic) right up to its limits. Its very progressive, and very forgiving. Easy to toss and catch. No ABS on most, so you can't rely on pedal-mashing. Parts are pretty cheap for these, given there are more than 700k of them worldwide and most things interchange between all of the years (90-05)! (more or less).

Of course, the Miata is not a rotary. Due to the relative rarity of FC's to Miatas, and the need for you to get a solid car, I would strongly suggest avoiding the FC unless you are very confident that you can identify a solid car. This is where having an excellent FC mechanic friend can help alot. Whatever you do, make sure you drive at least 2 examples of the car BEFORE you drive the one you want to buy. I have driven some cars for sale by both dealers and PO's and you would not believe how sketchy some of them can be. I'll never forget the miata I drove that had a very leaky master cylinder and a bent steering rack; this was a car a dealer was trying to pass off!

The FC non-turbo is a great car, potentially faster than a Miata in autox, definetly faster on the track. These cars ARE de facto classics in my book, in the same way as a AE86.

Finally, whatever you get, make sure you get it well-sorted by a pro first before you start taking on repairs. I fried 3 coilpacks in my miata before I realized the large problem wasn't grouding or ECU related at all, but rather timing related.

$6000?!?!?! you better get a top-shape TII for that money!

a good condition NA S4 can be had for 2000-ish if you look around....

good luck with your car search!

phew. even better. i havent 100% decided to go with NA or TURBO II yet, i have a year to decide. ill think it out. thanks for your help guys!

go check out www.teamfc3s.org if you are really interested in the FC. One of the best technically focused site/forum for the FC that I know of.

I've owned all three cars. First a 1991 Turbo II then a 1993 Base Model and now a 2004 RX-8 GT. I would start out with a FC as they're fairly simple and easy to work on. When I first got my FD, it had problems with the turbos. I sat there for about two hours just staring at the rats nest after I took the upper intake manifold because it was overwhelming. But after a while, you figure out what is what, and I had the car running perfect in two days (Had to fix turbos, a/c, power steering, and some other small stuff too). I think after a while, none of them is much harder to work on than the others. I've done around three motor swaps (one FC, two FD's), tranny swaps, made a wiring harness, blah, blah blah, and it's all the same. You just have to get used to whatever platform you decide on. But until you gain a little mechanical know-how, go for the FC. And make sure you have a 10mm, 12mm, 14mm, 17mm and a 19mm socket. haha.

I agree with whoever said it earlier that FD's are really that much maintence. After I got all the problems worked out from the pervious owner on my FD, I never had to fix anything. I think the reason people break them so much is because they're into drag racing them which I just can't stand.

Which one should you buy.....I love them all just as much. If I could own all three at once I would. I think I miss my FC the most though. It was one of a kind.

Here's some pics of my babies.....

Fyi
 

not to burst any bubbles but a FD can be reliable.I know this because my 94 FD w/22k miles and 300+rwhp has never needed a repair. Now, I know that I'm not just lucky because my 04 RX-8 w/12k miles has been in the shop for one repair and my 05 Ford f350 PSD w/ 1300 miles on it has been in the shop three times for three different repairs.

22K miles isn't that much, neither is 12K, definitely not 1300 miles, i dont think you can judge reliability from mileage that low..... :rolleyes:

Wow, 22,000 whole miles huh...

Yea, my fd made 290rwhp at stock boost (.7 bar) and 310 at .9 bar and I never had a single problem. Always ran perfect. Then again, the kid I sold it to aparantly blew out the turbos, which goes to show that it's all about the owner. You just have to have an understanding of the car and know how to drive it. I kind of like the fact that people don't think they're reliable. It will just make it easier for me to pick up another one on two years. The reason they blow up all the time is because people in the United States don't understand the importance of good tuning. I can't tell you how many people I know on the rx7club who have FMICs, full exhaust, high boost and no tuning (a lot of times a completely stock ECU). I don't believe in buying a chip for your car because even if you have the exact same modifications as what they say the chip is for, it's not going to be that good. I think the first thing you should do when you get an FD is get a Apex'i Power FC. That's your most important modifcation. And once you get it, take it somewhere creditable to get it tuned. I love to do all my own work, but I know I don't have enough experience with tuning so I took it to Rotary Performance in Garland, TX and they did a great job.

That is true, and I believe what you have said about it being reliable. Every FD I found for sale had at the most, one modification on it. and I don't really want a Miata and I ruled out my other choice which is just as rare, which is a Mkii MR2 Turbo (preferally a '91 or '92 model) because I may need back seats. and I didn't mean anything about the redlining, I am just used to my uncle's old G20, which has enough torque, but he has to redline it to climb the hill to my doctors, but the Automaics have no problem. I am willing to spend around $7,000 on a good TurboII (yeah, $7,000, I want a one owner, mint stock FC if that is even possible in this world). I lso want to see if I can gain a sponsor, like TurboTrix Racing-Import Specialists unless there is a rotary-relted place around. and TurboTrix is the reason that I want an FC also, because I don't want to go through the fuss of setting up an N/A 13B for a Turbo, so I thought that I might as well go with a TurboII.

im actually scared of tuning since i have no idea how to. before i do anything stupid like that i would proobably go to a turboshop ask around if its OK to do w/e then maybe just maybe i would do it by myself. does anyone know about how much would a FC Turbo II cost used?

I paid $6000 for mine with 72k miles on the chasis and 2k miles on a new reman. That's on the expensive side, but then again, you'll probably never find one in as good of condition as mine. When my friends were here from Japan, they said they've never even seen one that clean on the streets in Saitama or Tokyo.

Well, my last two Chevy trucks needed transmissions and many other little parts before the 100K mile mark.
The FD may not have a lot of miles on it but it is 11 years old with 0 problems and my other cars are new and have already had repairs.

22k miles of spirited driving. :) For example this last weekend I drove it 80 miles to the track, got four runs in, then drove it 80 miles back home.

I've got 225k on my '86 FC, 94k on my '94 FD and 12,500 on my '04 FE. These can be extremely reliable cars if you don't abuse them - just as with any make. The key is to understand that the rotary makes a lot of heat, compared to a piston engine. Adding a turbocharger increases the heat significantly. And heats kills underhood components made out of plastic. The plastic gets brittle and breaks. It's' also hell on rubber O-rings - which Mazda uses extensively in the engine itself and in ancillary components. If money were truly no object, it would be best to start with the 8. It's going to be easier to maintain, and it's a much more forgiving car to drive than the FD. I would definitely not recommend an FD as a first car for anyone who has not done a lot of racing in Karts, say... and is emotionally more mature than most 16-18-year-olds. It's just too high performance and a new driver will get in over his/her head the first week.

found a FC for sale
 

oh boy.....it is in the most worse shape, I showed my mom it and we got to look inside it and try, repeat, TRY to start it. I turned the key and it cranked once and started beeping. It beeped about 7 times and each time I turned the key it beeped each time. I opened the hood (My mom had to find the hood latch for me) and as I seen the N/A 13B, it did look good, but had spider webs in it, which explains why it didn't start. The trunk was stuck and I couldn't open it. So I sat in the driver's seat and felt for the power window button for the driver's side.....it wasn't there, lol. It had a big dent in the front driver fender, a bit of paint near the Mazda pop-out on the nose, and a rust fold above the top of the door fold. I wanted to hear the 13B but unfortunately it did not want to turn over.

Options it had:
Power Windows (Window...)
looked like GTU rims (they were stock)
spider webs, lol
Power Sunroof
5-speed manual
(those are all that I have seen in it)
it was $995 and now I know why...

ive owned an FD and an 8.... and oh my god the 8 is much less of a hastle

although if your looking for brutal speed, and money is in good flow, buy an FD BUT MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A DAILY DRIVER TO GO ALONG WITH IT

i got my 8 at 18 as my second car also as reward for a scholarship($110k total)and i pay for insurance and gas but not payments


and my Q for u is this... if u dont plan on racing wouldnt the rx8 have PLENTY enough power? i wanted an FD but it was just not economical for a regular driver... im not experienced enough for it neway... i dont see why you need something with sooo much power potential(and much higher insurance b/c of 2doors and 2seats) if your not going to race at all?

Sorry for bumping up an old post.

Anyways I'm new to these forums, so first I wanna say hello to everyone. I found myself in a similiar situation. I just graduated last week and my parents promised to get me my own car sometime in next year. They are willing to do so because I got into a good college and basically paid the first year off in scholarships.

They want me to get a new car, they are fine with me getting an 8. I would love to have an 8, but I still cant take my eyes off of an FD. The look is drop dead gorgeous even after so many years although the 8 is not far behind. Dad is reluctant to get a used car, but I'll probably be able to convince him if I find a good condition 7. (Actually there is an original seller here in my area with a '93 FD touring with 15k miles on it for 20k) He is worried about maintanence on it. This car will not technically be my first car, as I have driven myself daily for almost 2 years. Heck, I put more than 2/3 of the miles on my dad's SUV. Because I'll be going to college, I won't be driving daily, maybe twice a month and during the breaks. I just want a fun car to go out and enjoy the beautiful weather around here.

I'm sure quite a few of you guys have asked this: Go straight for the FD or get the 8 first?

lol u get into a collage and u get a car... lol... i need to get into a univercity to get a car... lol.... if the deal was me get into collage and get a car i'd be driving my dream car by now.... but either way.... good luck with collage and the car u like....

Theres difference between university and college? :p

Going to University of California Berkeley in the fall. Go Golden Bears :D

in a asian family.... collage is consider 1 step lower than university.... so.... there may not be a difference to u but to asian families... there is....

my vote is get the rx8. Or redefine exactly what you want- all the adivce you've gotten on this thread I think are helpful, but you say you want to 'learn about the rotary'. but also are afraid of repair costs. Then say you are afraid of tuning. What exactly do you want to 'learn' about the rotary? If you are planning on learing on how to mod it (but you say you are afraid) then gettin an older FC would be good I guess. The other thing you mention is that you want to get an FC, maybe move to FD, then the 8.....
While I don't question your drive or successes in anyway, and only wish the best, especially with school ahead, its not as easy as it sounds to just buy cars every few years. Shit always happens, you'll want some other stuff, TVS, you'll move out, all kinds of stuff that cost money. To me, I'd get a nice car now, and not worry about stuff for a while. But to each his own.

But if you are afraid of repair bills, I'd say get a car that has a warranty, that being an 8. By the time you're out of school and have a job, the 8 will have just left its warranty. But its up to you ultimately, just my .02..good luck with the decision nonetheless.....

my vote...get a turbed FC, its not that much power to handle so I would not worry too much. After that I would....well who knows what in the hell will be out in 2 years. More than likely a new 7 will be shown or the new 8 and you will start to second guess. It will more than likely be prolonged to 3 years or so. Get the FC then wait to see what is on the market.

ive decided on maybe getting a Impreza WRX or maybe an 8. by saying im scared of turning, i mean im scared that i might mess something up real bad and ill be in deep shit. i still got plenty of time to decide though (1 or more years). thanks for your helps guys. but i have to say this again, what ever car im getting WILL NOT be my daily driver, i assume ill put a maximum of around 5000-7000 miles on it a year. i live in NYC and as you guys know theres lots of public transportation and its cheaper than driving. and if i really do need to drive ill be driving parents MPV or Infiniti QX4. so its going to be a fun car that i can drive when its nice out or a car that i can mess around with. if i get a car ill probably be tuning it after 4-5 years of owning it. i do not plan on spending big bucks for the few 1-4 years otehr than regular maintance.

you've been brainwashed by those FD nazi's at rx7 club, while FDs are unreliable pieces of shit, but you dont need a rebuild under 50k miles, well taken care of they last 125 fine. and they arent blindingly amazing fast, its not like you'll be taking a big step up graduating from an rx8 to a stock old FD. now, if your talking about a 6,000 dollar turbo swap, major tuning, you're talking about a seriously dangerous car for a 16 year old to be driving, but stock FD's can be made plenty docile to daily drive, there are quite a few people at RX-7 club that daily drive them. as soon as you get one, go in and get it rehosed, get an alum AST, RAD, as well as set up a boost controller, aside from basic auto maintenance. check compression ratio and 3k rpm boost hesitation and the behaviour of the turbos. also make sure to spend your time at RX-7 club because thats a real technical site wher you can learn a lot about rotaries, this site is mostly for b/s and stuff, general modification chat, and only if you have an rx8 really, i'll catch you around rx7 club if you need help.