The real RX-8 competitor?
03-25-2003, 02:04 PM
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The real RX-8 competitor?
I think maybe the best car to compare to the RX-8 is the upcoming Acura TSX (US only). It's supposed to be on sale in April, and this is the specs from Edmunds.com:
Price range, $25,000-$30,000 US.
2.4 liter 4-cylinder engine with Honda's VTEC
Torque 166 ft pounds
Horsepower 200
Redline 8100 RPMs
5 speed automatic or 6 speed manual
mileage rated at 21 city -29 highway
4 door.
Edmunds lists at as having excellent handling.
So with the sole exception of the 4 doors vs. the RX-8's 2 doors + suicide doors configuration, it looks to me like these two are really targetted towards the exact same demographic. The features are certainly similar enough.
Price range, $25,000-$30,000 US.
2.4 liter 4-cylinder engine with Honda's VTEC
Torque 166 ft pounds
Horsepower 200
Redline 8100 RPMs
5 speed automatic or 6 speed manual
mileage rated at 21 city -29 highway
4 door.
Edmunds lists at as having excellent handling.
So with the sole exception of the 4 doors vs. the RX-8's 2 doors + suicide doors configuration, it looks to me like these two are really targetted towards the exact same demographic. The features are certainly similar enough.
03-25-2003, 02:14 PM
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yeah... the euro accord everyone here wanted in the first place 
it does have a nice interior, but it's heavier, doesn't make as much power, and has very close to the same torque... i don't think anyone who says the RX-8 doesn't have enough torque would ever think of owning this car... and those who're in the market for this car would probably have a tough choice on their hands if performance wasn't #1 on the list.
it does have a nice interior, but it's heavier, doesn't make as much power, and has very close to the same torque... i don't think anyone who says the RX-8 doesn't have enough torque would ever think of owning this car... and those who're in the market for this car would probably have a tough choice on their hands if performance wasn't #1 on the list.
03-25-2003, 03:52 PM
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Yes, the TSX is listed as front wheel drive. I forgot about that.
I guess that kills a comparison - or just hands it to the RX-8 gift wrapped.
Still, I think Acura is gunning for the same kind of people that would buy the RX-8. Both are a mix of practical 4 passenger sedan and sporty car. The TSX will probably have a more luxurious interior, a bigger trunk, and a bigger back seat. The RX-8 will have handling, acceleration, and fun-factor in its favor.
I guess that kills a comparison - or just hands it to the RX-8 gift wrapped.
Still, I think Acura is gunning for the same kind of people that would buy the RX-8. Both are a mix of practical 4 passenger sedan and sporty car. The TSX will probably have a more luxurious interior, a bigger trunk, and a bigger back seat. The RX-8 will have handling, acceleration, and fun-factor in its favor.
03-25-2003, 04:25 PM
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Honda needs at least one or two sporty models in their lineup with RWD other than the S2000. I'm really disappointed in the direction Honda is heading.. Heavy, boring fwd cars.. sigh.. They should revive the Prelude as a sporty coupe with RWD, 6spd and a 240hp engine.. at about 3000lbs. That would be a real RX-8 competitor.
03-25-2003, 07:46 PM
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03-25-2003, 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by Elara
No offense to Acura/Honda, but Mazda wins in the looks department (if nothing else) for both the 6 and the 8...the TSX looks so generic...
No offense to Acura/Honda, but Mazda wins in the looks department (if nothing else) for both the 6 and the 8...the TSX looks so generic...
03-25-2003, 09:21 PM
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I remember reading about the TSX (Euro Accord) before and thinking that many people may compare the TSX to the RX-8 because of the similar price and because Acura was marketing the TSX as a sporty car with seating room for 4.
From a price/performance point of view, the TSX does not stand up very well to the RX-8. It is FWD, has a worse hp/weight ratio, has less hp regardless of weight, has a worse wheel torque/weight ratio, has less wheel torque regardless of weight, will not have the same braking performance as the RX-8 and most likely will not have the same handling performance either.
It will probably get a fair share of buyers because of the Acura name and reputation. As FamilyGuy pointed out, the TSX will probably have a bigger trunk than the RX-8, a nice interior and decent room in the back. I really don't think the TSX will do very well though. It will have a hard enough time taking a lot of sales from the US Honda Accord.
Brian
From a price/performance point of view, the TSX does not stand up very well to the RX-8. It is FWD, has a worse hp/weight ratio, has less hp regardless of weight, has a worse wheel torque/weight ratio, has less wheel torque regardless of weight, will not have the same braking performance as the RX-8 and most likely will not have the same handling performance either.
It will probably get a fair share of buyers because of the Acura name and reputation. As FamilyGuy pointed out, the TSX will probably have a bigger trunk than the RX-8, a nice interior and decent room in the back. I really don't think the TSX will do very well though. It will have a hard enough time taking a lot of sales from the US Honda Accord.
Brian
03-25-2003, 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by Quick_lude
Honda needs at least one or two sporty models in their lineup with RWD other than the S2000. I'm really disappointed in the direction Honda is heading.. Heavy, boring fwd cars.. sigh.. They should revive the Prelude as a sporty coupe with RWD, 6spd and a 240hp engine.. at about 3000lbs. That would be a real RX-8 competitor.
Honda needs at least one or two sporty models in their lineup with RWD other than the S2000. I'm really disappointed in the direction Honda is heading.. Heavy, boring fwd cars.. sigh.. They should revive the Prelude as a sporty coupe with RWD, 6spd and a 240hp engine.. at about 3000lbs. That would be a real RX-8 competitor.
03-26-2003, 06:47 AM
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Arrrgh!! This is no competition for the RX-8. It's not good lookin, has front wheel drive, looks like a typical Honda product.
If Honda comes out with a REAR WHEEL DRIVE car, they might have a chance.
If Honda comes out with a REAR WHEEL DRIVE car, they might have a chance.
03-26-2003, 09:02 AM
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Hercules,
Maybe you're right, the comparison should be with the Mazda6. I looked at the specs I could find for the TSX, and they were disappointing.
Mazda6 V6 TSX
220 hp 200 hp
192 torque 166 torque
mileage 20/27 mileage 21/29
(assuming 6-speed manual transmission for both)
base price
$21,500 $25,000 (estimated)
FWD FWD
curb weight
3243 3130 (estimated)
I would think (?) that 20 more horsepower and 26 more torque would more than offset the 113 pound difference. So at best TSX buyers would be spending an extra $3500 for slightly better gas mileage, better handling, and a more luxurious interior at the cost of reduced performance.
The only reason I think anyone would prefer the TSX, then, is Honda/Acura's legendary reliability.
Maybe you're right, the comparison should be with the Mazda6. I looked at the specs I could find for the TSX, and they were disappointing.
Mazda6 V6 TSX
220 hp 200 hp
192 torque 166 torque
mileage 20/27 mileage 21/29
(assuming 6-speed manual transmission for both)
base price
$21,500 $25,000 (estimated)
FWD FWD
curb weight
3243 3130 (estimated)
I would think (?) that 20 more horsepower and 26 more torque would more than offset the 113 pound difference. So at best TSX buyers would be spending an extra $3500 for slightly better gas mileage, better handling, and a more luxurious interior at the cost of reduced performance.
The only reason I think anyone would prefer the TSX, then, is Honda/Acura's legendary reliability.
03-26-2003, 09:50 AM
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I think it is a bit smaller than the Accord and the 6. Its kind of like a FWD 325. Since Acura/Honda, rarely make RWD vehicles, its really their competitor for this market niche.
Its not my cup of tea, but I'm sure it'll be a reasonable alternative to the 325 for the luxury crowd, who are looking more for quality, price and some fun.
Its not my cup of tea, but I'm sure it'll be a reasonable alternative to the 325 for the luxury crowd, who are looking more for quality, price and some fun.
03-27-2003, 04:02 PM
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I mis-estimated size when I made my original post.
I thought the RSX was 2400 pounds (like an early 90s Civic) and the TSX would be around 2700. A 300 pound weight advantage over the RX-8 could do a lot to offset the TSX's weaker power. It also would help the handling and breaking, I would think.
Turns out the RSX is 2700 pounds and the TSX is 400 more. My bad.
I thought the RSX was 2400 pounds (like an early 90s Civic) and the TSX would be around 2700. A 300 pound weight advantage over the RX-8 could do a lot to offset the TSX's weaker power. It also would help the handling and breaking, I would think.
Turns out the RSX is 2700 pounds and the TSX is 400 more. My bad.
03-29-2003, 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by gusmahler
I don't understand the market for the new car. The TL isn't that much more expensive. And you can get an Accord V-6 with 40 more HP.
I don't understand the market for the new car. The TL isn't that much more expensive. And you can get an Accord V-6 with 40 more HP.
03-30-2003, 04:58 AM
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honda sells reliability and just as important, looks (or the lack there of). most people buy bland looking cars (there are no better examples than the accord and camry). they dont offend anybody, so no one gets turned away.
people have billions of opinions of what the perfect car looks like, but most people arent looking for the perfect looking car. they look for the car that does not stand out and that is realiable, and they will buy it.
just my theory.
people have billions of opinions of what the perfect car looks like, but most people arent looking for the perfect looking car. they look for the car that does not stand out and that is realiable, and they will buy it.
just my theory.
03-30-2003, 08:47 AM
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I agree with you 100% fishsauce. A lot of people view cars as just another "necessity" or plain old transportation from point A to point B, so styling, performance, and such isn't really high on their list.
Some people actually "like" the look of those bland sedans (Accord, Camry, etc.)....to each their own I guess. :o
Personally, I would take a sporty Mazda 6 over any of its direct competitors ANYDAY!
Some people actually "like" the look of those bland sedans (Accord, Camry, etc.)....to each their own I guess. :o
Personally, I would take a sporty Mazda 6 over any of its direct competitors ANYDAY!
04-06-2003, 12:28 AM
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just thought id add some info regarding the Acura TSX
1. its not going to compete with the rx8... i dont even know where those comparisons were made... C&D did a test drive and tore the car from limb to limb. The kinds of comments that were being made were "3series competitor? falls short" "doesnt have the refinement that BMW has" "doesnt handle as well as the 3series"
that kind of comparison is seriously nonsense... its like them taking the mazda6 and pitting it against a 330i. obviously the mazda6 is gonna lose
the real comparison is with the mazda6 which is a fair comparison. though the 200HP falls short of the 220 in the mazda6, the 0-60 times are comparably the same 0.1 or so off. 1/4mile times arent much different either (both manual)
im not sure how well the new TSX will compare to the 6 in the handling department (might be a tad behind), but factor the car as a whole with HIDs, 360watt system, heated seats, 6disc changer (all this standard) , along with better interior materials than the 6, and u basically even the scale again.
the cars will basicallly be even as a whole but with the Acura badge, some might swing that way just to go for the name
PS. Acura will NOT go RWD... there are rumors though that the new TL will be AWD (shared platform with the MDX) and upwards of 300HP (18'' rim option). hard to find spy shots but Acura's lineup will be an AWD lineup with a V6 engine (no plans of v8)
so for all you RWD enthusiasts, acura's only car you can go for is the NSX (or honda's S2k)
1. its not going to compete with the rx8... i dont even know where those comparisons were made... C&D did a test drive and tore the car from limb to limb. The kinds of comments that were being made were "3series competitor? falls short" "doesnt have the refinement that BMW has" "doesnt handle as well as the 3series"
that kind of comparison is seriously nonsense... its like them taking the mazda6 and pitting it against a 330i. obviously the mazda6 is gonna lose
the real comparison is with the mazda6 which is a fair comparison. though the 200HP falls short of the 220 in the mazda6, the 0-60 times are comparably the same 0.1 or so off. 1/4mile times arent much different either (both manual)
im not sure how well the new TSX will compare to the 6 in the handling department (might be a tad behind), but factor the car as a whole with HIDs, 360watt system, heated seats, 6disc changer (all this standard) , along with better interior materials than the 6, and u basically even the scale again.
the cars will basicallly be even as a whole but with the Acura badge, some might swing that way just to go for the name
PS. Acura will NOT go RWD... there are rumors though that the new TL will be AWD (shared platform with the MDX) and upwards of 300HP (18'' rim option). hard to find spy shots but Acura's lineup will be an AWD lineup with a V6 engine (no plans of v8)
so for all you RWD enthusiasts, acura's only car you can go for is the NSX (or honda's S2k)