RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Right no, now. They don't have the ability to pay for the development of a car like that.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Why don't they just try to revive MG and Triumph while they're at it .... if you're going to commit suicide at least do it quickly with a gun rather than a long, slow suffering one-way ride over the cliff ..

Sounds to me like Mazda would be better served to hire some competent associates who come up with innovative ideas rather than grasp at poorly thought out straws of doom ...

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Not sure what you are referring to Team. Their only vehicle design problems have been because of the Ford control they finally cut, and their only financial problems have been from the dollar vs yen exchange rate during the downturn.

Their vehicles are taking top spots in their classes and selling faster than they can be produced.

Where is the long slow suffering one way ride?

j9fd3s

agreed, look at the stock price, it actually mirrors tesla. it was 90Y in early 2012, and its 414 today.

i drove a 230hp miata, and it was frightening. my friend has a 340rwhp miata, and its beyond frightening, and its on a border between stupid and awesome.

BMW owns Triumph cars, i believe. we actually are due for a reboot too. unfortunately the triumph brand is meaningless, i had a Tr3 and if you have the chance to drive/own one, do it, its really special. out of its peer group, its easily my favorite.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Let me put it like this. Alfa who? They have been riding on old history for too long. I can't even believe they are still in business.

You can't blame all of Mazda's faults on Ford. They have plenty of their own issues too. At least Ford brought plenty to the table and they have managed a certain level of success in the last several years too. Of course there will be politics and any company has to prioritize it's interests.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Mazda is just selling the chassis to Alpha, and being paid to assemble them with Alpha's engine, Alpha's suspension, and Alpha's interior.

It's a cash source for Mazda, nothing more. The only argument against effectively selling WAY more of a given model is market dilution.

j9fd3s

Alfa makes a bunch of really great looking modern cars. they left the US, but not the rest of the world...

j9fd3s

speaking ancient history, i want one of these


420hp/1.5l supercharged...

MattMPS

mhh... so-so .......

today's Alfa lineup is at minimum terms, but they have plan to improve the lineup...

but.... for example they have need of Mazda for build a proper spider

77mjd

Same could be said for cars like the BRZ. They are fairly limited in production, but now that the initial hype and wave of demand was met, I see them sitting on lots everywhere. Dealer closest to me has 11 13's in stock and 4 '14s in transit. Earlier in the year, they couldn't keep them in stock.

ASH8

Yep, happens to almost all/any model car which has a limited appeal of practicality...more so than ever before, as I have said a thousand times this is why the RX-8 sold well initially, plus it had the drawing power of 4 doors (for families), a 'new' 2 door (FF) Rotary of any type "IF" it ever happens will have even less initial production run, you will not see 60K and 40K in the first 2 years like the 8...it will be limited supplied like they did with the Miata in 1989....RE is not going to happen anyway while the world economy is in the crap house.

BTW: The 'convertible' version of the Toybaru which was first not happening, then it was coming for certain, well now Toyota has just said that is has been 'shelved indefinitely'...!!

As for the LFA and GTR, these were well any truly in design, engineering and tooling process before the GFC (2008), both makers could not pull out, as for their success, well again apart from USA the GTR is a very poor seller, everyone wants one, but it is a Neesan....Both are loss makers, something Mazda will never do now, and of course Mazda has the capability, engineering and design skills to invent/make the same.

I would be very surprised if the LFA and GTR would be made today from scratch...

TALAN7

Regardless of what everyone says, IMO Mazda needs a halo car. Their new cars are nice, but not drool worthy. They should at least make Mazdaspeed variants of most if not all of their cars. I'd personally like to see a Mazdaspeed CX5.

j9fd3s

my friend just bought a new 2012 Rav4. he decided he wanted a 2012, because they had the V6.

so you'd think finding a left over year old toyota would be hard, but they had plenty, and the Rav4 isn't a niche market car either.

i've worked in the car business for a long time, and was really surprised that toyota has cars on the lot for more than 90 days.

it is perhaps a sign a bad economy.

MattMPS

exactly...

they always said that they need to go "upmarket"...

go "upmarket" means that new skyactiv generation products are placed higher in their segments*, but in my opinion means also to build more expensive cars....

there is room enough to compete with BMW 3&5 series IMHO.

one model in a couple of versions (sedan/coupè) in "not-so-high" number/YEAR...well under 100k /year ( 50k more an less).

obviously they need a partner for such platform to reach the right amount of car/year...

no need of a new platform for a 6 or a CX5/7 etc....


*and so they are...

neit_jnf

rwd cx-5 or future Mz6:

leave engine and tranny as-is, remove front axles, lock haldex to full rear torque...

TALAN7

One really good modular (for size variations) rear wheel drive platform would do just fine. Make a 2-4 door sports coupe, a 4 door sports sedan, and maybe a sport ute. These cars would be higher performance, more upmarket cars. I honestly think Mazda could really benefit from an upmarket division. I'm not saying it's financially sound, but if they had a division where the cars were rwd or awd and were really pushed to the limit performance wise, many would drool over them. I'm not saying a Mazda Lexus division but more a Mazda SRT division where they are hi performance cars but are one offs. Either do that or make Mazdaspeed variants of everything.

Mazdaspeed might not be the way to go. Not too many people bouhgt MS6s or MS3s. IMO, most don't want to pay that much for a Mazda. But if it's seperated by a different name then they could market as hi-performance or more upscale. Hyundai is having a hard time selling it more upscale cars because they're still trying to sell them as Hyundais. They shoukd just create a Genesis division, put the marketing behind it and zi believe sales would go up.

ASH8

Wont work, Mazda have been there before and it failed miserably... you wont find "Dealers" to take it on and actually 'sell' a new brand clone.

Lexus/Toyota is the only double brand name I can think of which is loosely 'international' and has worked, reasonably well, ... in the USA anyway...

Most people know they are glorified Toyota's and wont be conned by marketing brand spin.
Car buyers are way more knowledgeable (thanks to the internet) than ever before,
I really doubt Lexus would work if it started up fresh today.

Infiniti (Nissan) only works in US and Middle East, Japan, everywhere else it has failed...

Mazda are ''one of two'' (Japan) who are not majority owned by another car maker (now independent again), they are just not going to risk hair brain schemes,
or silly models which will not sell in the current auto climate, including RE...it is just not going to happen.

Toyota are having trouble selling Prius at the moment, they are not going to make the convertible 86/BRZ as there is just no real demand, another fizzed out seller.

I will say this now if Fiat had not approached Mazda about a MX-5 clone made for them as an Alfa, it would have been difficult to justify an all new ND Miata/MX-5,
Mazda has no RX- to share design costs and volume with (ATM) like previous model Miata/MX-5...

As we know when the first Miata came out in 1989 there were no other convertibles available anywhere new...

2017 is going to be very interesting to see how Mazda are placed and IF they can justify launching any all new RX-...

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Much of my job is dealing with car brands by OEM, and there just aren't actually that many individual brands any more. Technically, the number went up from the recent crash as brands were sold off, (like Hummer was bought by a Chinese firm), but largely the sold off brands haven't really resurfaced at all.

I'm struggling to think of which other brand other than Mazda makes of the other of the "one of two".

I've spent the last few days fighting with Chrysler brand and model names, which is driving me up the wall. I hate Chrysler.

ASH8

Toyota

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Well, not counting brands that own other brands.

Toyota owns Lexus and Scion
Honda owns Acura
Hyundai owns Kia
Nissan owns Infiniti
Ford owns Lincoln (and previously Mercury, Merkur, Jauar, Aston Martin, Volvo and Landrover)
Chrysler owns Dodge, Jeep, Ram, and Fiat (and previously Plymouth and Eagle)
GM owns Chrevrolet, Buick, Cadillac, GMC, Holden, Opel, Vauxhall (and previously Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer, and Geo)
Volkswagen owns Audi, Lamborghini, Bently, and Bugatti
Mercedes owns Smart and Maybach
BMW owns Mini and Rolls-Royce
Peugeot owns Citroen (or vise versa?)
Mazda is solo

I can't think of any other, other than individual tiny ones like Fisker, Coda, etc.... US perspective of course, there may be more elsewhere that I'm missing.

Edit: Oh, Mitsubishi. They don't have any other brand name. Other than their electronics being in pretty much every car made today, and they partner with anyone and everyone they can (Volvo, Chrysler, Mercedes, PRoton, Hyundai, Peugeot/Citroen)

Edit2: And Subaru. Thanks Bladecutter.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Ash, are you betting against the return of the rotary?

Paul.

Bladecutter

You actually mean Subaru, right?

BC.

Rootski

iTrader: (1)

Let's maybe consider the crazy idea that at least some of Mazda's leadership knows more about the car industry than we do?

Too much confusion in this thread between "what I think would be cool to see/own" and "what is good for Mazda."

I think the next move that makes sense for Mazda is not to build a crazy halo car or a 400hp monster, but to build off the success they've had with the Mazda6 and MX-5 in recent years. I could easily see a more refined Mazda6 at the same price point as a 3-series killer, especially in the Euro market where small-engine 3's are the most popular.

It's not about becoming an industry titan. If you look at it from the perspective of economic rents, where the risk of invested capital is taken into account, GM would do better to close its doors and invest all of its capital into CD. Their return on risk is abysmal and Mazda is crushing them in this regard. Why throw cash around in unstrategic hairbrained schemes and increase that risk?

That said, I want a new RX, too.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Subaru has partnered with Toyota and Volvo.

And Mazda has tried to build a luxury car brand previously. The RX7 (FC & FD) and 929 were a part of the Efini brand.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Bladecutter. Not sure how I forgot Subaru.

So there are 3, Mazda, Subaru, and Mitsubishi, that are not owned by anyone, or own a sub-brand themselves. The Efini brand didn't work out so well.