Yes, my rant in the media section is not over.....

I read that the new camaro (going on what's reported, this could change FYI) Is going to weigh between 3500-3600, why oh why....for the love of GOD are US sports cars getting fatter and fatter (other than the Vette).

This was very upsetting to hear, one of the reasons I didn't even attempt with the GTO was because of it's heft and now Lutz (who I like, not so much right now) said it's going to weigh the same as the Mustang.

By the way the new Mustang GT500 so far is hitting 12.7's in the 1/4 mile with 500HP....why, because it comes in (ready for this) at a FAT 3,900 pounds. Just when I thought Ford was going to own the bang for the buck performance crown, the Z06/EVO RS....still hold tight to it.

It seems, like our overall fat nation....our cars are only getting bigger and bigger. (no offense to anyone, just a historical fact)

Sport Cars should be light and nimble....I'm so disapointed in this news. If it was up to me, the new Camaro would not pass 3350.

Arrrrrrr

 

Given that though, when its time to replace my 8 I will have to give the Camaro a serious look--because its still gonna be a mid 13s 1/4 car if not faster. I agree with you about the weight--but if it was lighter then it would upset the sports car heirarchy over at GM--especially with it using the same powertrain as the Vette.

 

Most consider them muscle cars. Lightweight and handling is secondary to power.

 

This is true, and neither the Mustang or the Camaro were ever considered sports cars, they are "muscle cars". Muscle cars were(are for the most part) ALWAYS heavy and loaded with power, so trying to lump them into the sports car segment seems kinda silly.

 

Well....while I basically agree with this, the Mustang and GTO are sure doing well in the Rolex (GT class) series which is basically promoted as a 'sports' car type of event!

 

Well, it does not have to be this way. They only have to match the Mustang GT's 300HP, so maybe if they used the LS4 making 330HP and made it weigh 3400 at most they would still have a better lb/hp than the Mustang yet not good enough to take out a C6.

Even with the LS2 (400HP) in a, let's say SS Camaro it it weighs 3400 pounds the normal C6 would still be significantly lighter so it shouldn't upset the balance of their sports cars too much really.

Maybe 3500 aint too bad...but I feel I will repent in saying that later...lol.

Well, I guess I'm just greedy...but I guess there are trade off's when you are trying to reach a certain price.

The RX8 and Mustang GT cost about the same (base 6spd vs Mustang GT) and while the Mustang is not a bad handler, the RX8 is a btter overall balanced and handling car. Yet, the Mustang is significantly faster than the RX8.

I hate compromising....when it comes to cars, but I guess unless I build my own dang car I'll have to.

I'm still disapointed...I think the US brands are going the wrong direction considering the price of gas, try cutting weight instead of adding HP to overcome your fat hog cars. I love HP, don't get me wrong...but I completely disagree with the increasing weight of the pony cars.

Remember the Mustang LX 5.0.....it was an icon back in the day for lightweight V8 power, not too good looking but impressive.

 

I don't see what's so hard for the US companies to see - put the cars on a diet AND keep the huge power numbers and suddenly people will be talking! It might even be GOOD talking!

 

i dont know why its so hard for some of you guys to see... American consumers dosnt want small light cars... The automakers are just making what people want. if americans wants small light cars, miata would be outselling mustangs.

 

When my 8 is done, I'm going to seriously look into financing that beautiful Saleen Supercharged Mustang...thing is suhhhhh-weet

 

I'd rather have a C6 for that kind of money..
The vette is the only real american sportscar left IMHO. The Sky and Solstice are great roadsters and are the next closest thing, but there's nothing else left since the demise of the ford GT which is nothing less than a supercar.

 

I agree with most of your points, but its not just American cars that are putting on weight, as a whole, all cars, and trucks are getting overweight. Every year when you have a new model of a car released, it is longer, wider, heavier, and available with more options, airbags, traction contols, larger rims, than the outgoing model. Just look at your 350z's compared to the old 300z, 2G Eclipse vs 3G and 4G, VW GTI/Jetta, Miata's. The current BMW M3 is at 3400 lbs, in 1999 it was 3100 pounds, whats the new one going to weigh with the rumored V8??

 

i for one think that pricing will hold its future and not its weightt. the main reason the 4th generation f-body had bad sales from 1998 and till the end was because they were +8000 usd's on the mustang gt. if the new camaro can hold a solid 25,000 to AT THE MAX 32,000 price (for the V8 version) then i believe it will meet better sales.

 

As long as it has power, weight doesn't mean all that much. Muscle cars are their own group, they are unique from Japanese sports cars.

I am seriously considering a mustang gt as my next car as the RX8 is still not receiving the attention it deserves from mazda.

That Saleen looks really nice btw. I would consider buying the body kit and installing it myself.

 

i would never buy a mustang.

if we're talking about the next 'sports' car that we're gonna get, i'd pick the gt-r or the lexus supercar/supra if it ever comes out. if it does come out in 2010 i can probably get it.

 

Hey, no one said "small" and light.....just reasonable with weight. 3400 should not be so hard to reach, but now a days it seems 3500-4000 is what we consider "normal" for sadans and sports cars.

Sorry, I disagree...that would be a big mistake for GM. The Mustang goes for 19K-26K, with the GT500 comming in much higher.

The next Camaro has to match it on price and beat it in performance and looks. GM could save money by going with the LS4 and just keeping the weight reasonable.

I'd like to see a V6 and two V8 versions, but I think it's going to be as fat as the Mustang and GTO.

I don't mind the size, I mind the weight since too much has a negative effect on handling and balance.

In this regard, I love Mazda...if only Mazda would stick a bit more power in their cars.....

 

Right, the car doesn't need to be SMALL, just lighter weight. If they can pull that off, that power is going to feel a whole lot more impressive. Plus maybe, just maybe, it'll enable them to actually put out a car that does a decent job in the handling department too.

GM can't fall back on the days where all a car needed was a big engine. Now they're being matched up more and more with Japanese and Eurpoean offerings and they need to cater to the changing tastes of the country. Why should they be forced to only wow one group (musclecar folks) when they could be out turning the heads of a wide range of the automotive world? Given their current status, that's exactly what they need to do.

 

Are you saying that they actually need to make the car handle too?! That'd be a crazy concept! Crazy talk!

 

i agree with the weight but they've been heavy is the past and probably won't see a diet anytime soon, but as for price a brand new v8 gt is really hard to find below 26,000. plus after all the options i've seen them on autotrader for well over 31,000. but with the mustang the v6 model sells alot more than the v8 so that helps sales greatly. as for a v6 camaro i believe its a must it order to make any profit what so ever, but i think if they sell the v8 model for over 35,000k then its a waste. keep it as the poor mans vette and america will buy it.

 

In all fairness, the Miata and the RX-# cars have been steadily gaining weight with every new generation too.

 

In the case of the miata, i think it needed it.. I never felt safe in the car until the last generation and the current gen.. well.. in texas... i still dont feel safe in a miata.. i'm afraid of getting killed by an SUV..

 

More true in the later model years than the earlier. The Camaro/Firebird was originally built to compete in the Trans Am racing series (road racing). They've always handled pretty well for their generation. They may not feel as confident in the turns as more dedicated corner carvers, but they could always hold their own around a road course. Of course, the fact that you have a hard time getting around them on the straights helps.

I'd at least like to see the weight down in the region of the last generation, ~33-3400lbs for the coupe. But then you start knocking on the Vette's door acceleration wise, and we all know how much stock the American public puts in those damn 0-60 and 1/4 mile #"s, regardless of the merits of each individual car.

On a better note, the heavier a car comes from the factory, the easier (and cheaper) weight reduction becomes .

 

AMEN to that....why "build in" limitations? I know money and profit is really the issue, but the car should be well rounded in all departments.

Dang, if 32K is a poor man....I must be really really a poor man, lol. Remember, the problem with the old Camaro was that it started climing the price latter (besides the other issues). The whole pony car concept is that it allows the common Joe to afford a pretty strong sports car...I think taking it past 30K (in the Z28 version not SS) would be a big mistake.

But...maybe I just need a better job and I wouldn't complain so much, lol.

True, but the 8 has rear seats now...and the MX5 is bigger overall. But...true either way.

Me too, OK...I'll compromise...3400....NO MORE! LOL

 

As long as the Z is faster than the Mustang GT, i'm fine.

 

^yeah, I agree.

I don't need a SS, with the aftermarket you probably could get a Z28 to go faster than the SS anyway.

 

Believe it or not, but the the turbo FC weighed more than the base FD.