What are you talking about? Senna was on the inside. There was no room for him that's the whole point. If you look at Vettel's onboard you see him cutting to the inside curb. If he would have stayed wide both cars would have been ok. I'm not a Vettel hater at all actually. I just think he isn't as good as Alonso, Hamilton, Kimi or Schumacher. He's just lucky he has Adrian Newey on his team. He is A good driver but far from the best. It's 70/30 car/driver in his case and 10/90 car/driver in Alonso's case. Vettel is champion BECAUSE of the car. Alonso would have been champion DESPITE of the car ;) try to look at things with an open mind. You'll see I and most others are right.

Should have been more clearer...winning an F1 Championship ..not a race.:)

I think Phil Hill is the last American (Born) to win a Championship in 1961.

Andretti was Italian born I think and won Championship in 1978.
Did not think Gurney won any F1 Championship.

Andretti was Italian born, but a US citizen. Gurney didn't win a championship, but he did win 4 races.

So your assertion is that Vettel purposefully hacked across Senna's car thusly causing contact and putting him to last place on the grid? Do you see where the Force India car is in front of Seb? Do you see Sed is off the racing line and starts to move back onto it? As I said before, Seb was not making the pass, Senna was, he had the door closed on him I honestly think he was looking at the Force India car and just did not anticipate Vettel moving back onto the race line. As I said before, racing incident, nothing purposeful happened.

McLaren has been faster the RBR all season. By rights Jenson or Hamilton should be a 2x WDC if it was only the car.

3x in row luck winner Seb. I cannot wait until next season Ferrari has finally fallen back to its pre Schumacher years where it is kind of there but not quite, strategy blunders, and too much time worrying about the other teams put them where they are. I was a huge MCS fan during those years, when everyone then said it was the car and Ferrari's over the top budget too.

I was never an Alonso fan and when he stooped to crashgate, (do not forget his antics during Stephnygate as well blackmailing McLaren) I lost all respect for him. He can be a super driver now, I cannot put behind me his antics in the past.

They're the only 2 drivers that wouldn't disappoint in a car from the 70s\80s. Alonso is smarter, Vettel is more comfortable given his car.
That's pretty much it.
Vettel also races against the whole grid minus 3 cars (Webber and Toro Rosso), Alonso doesn't have this privilege. If Vettel caught up with the top runners pretty fast both here and in texas is because of this, as well as the car's speed around the track.

I never said Vettel did it on purpose. I'm just saying he was at fault. Hulkenberg didn't do it on purpose so why did he get a penalty? Because he isn't Vettel ;)

The McLaren isn't better. Might be faster but a car that breaks every other race is not better.

All of us have opinions and biases. Vettel is highly skilled. Alonso has proven himself a champ over and over. All the top people say Ham is the quickest on the grid. Who is the real deal, the most complete and talented driver? I will let people do their own wrestling and arguing :).

Paul.

;)
There are some very passionate people here who's opinion will never be changed.
http://www.planet-f1.com/f1-babes/ph...-Babes#photo=0
I love the comments.

I agree. But you have to be highly skilled just to get in F1 to begin with. Even with deep pockets. It's just my opinion that ANY driver in Vettel's car would be a triple champion if they had his seat. Vettel is talented but not special. The car is. I just get tired of the whole FIA debate. If that was the case red bull would have been disqualified in Canada. And for their flexing wings. And be penalized on numerous occasions. They didn't yesterday because they didn't want to influence the championship. The safety car yesterday is a dumb argument too because Vettel was right behind Alonso when it happened. Red bull deserved the constructor championship because it was the best car. No argument there. But Alonso deserved the drivers title. Red bull has gotten away with a lot of cheating over the years. And then (ignorant) people say the FIA helps Ferrari. Right....

The FIA doesn't help ferrari but we can't argue that they did for a number of years.
The Schumacher era... :)

Ain't that true...you cant get over the fact that Red Bull has had the best cars for many years.

To suggest it's drivers are talentless is just ridiculous and very disingenuous by anyone who suggests so.

Ferrari had a pretty good run back in the Schumacher domination period.

SNAP...lol

I didn't say they were talentless lol. In fact i said the opposite.

Btw there's a video of Vettel overtaking an HRT under yellow on YouTube. You see a blinking yellow light on the left. Rightful champion? I think not ;) but I'm sure the FIA won't do anything about it. Even though he should get 20 or 30 seconds added to his time.

They said they were "track condition lights"... perhaps the HRT was already overlapped?

Vettel had his share of luck throughout his career but still, he did a good job yesterday with the extra retarded pit stop and the pit stop problems. Again, when you have3 cars that have orders to let you pass it's easier but still...
Now, where is grossjohn's head? He is the cause Alonso didn't win the championship.

The track condition lights are solid. Not flashing. That was with a pass on Kobayashi. The pass on the HRT is under a flashing yellow light which is not allowed. It was on lap 4. Too early to be lapped. That's illegal too though. Vettel didn't have to fight barely anyone. Webber, torro rosso, Mercedes, caterham, marussia all let him by. Grosjean was already out. So was Williams. The McLaren's were out in front. So was a force India. All he had to pass was a force India and a sauber and maybe Kimi.

Two Words:

Mark Weber


He finished 6th in the WDC and should be second if it was all car. Sort of Like Jenson and Rubens in the Braun GP year.

LOL, Vettel went to the back of the field where Ferrari wanted him, Hulkenberg was in Ferrari's way. F....I....A..... :D:

See, we are on 2 sides of a fence and are going to have to agree to disagree.

Whiting made a statement that the yellow Ferrari saw was indeed a track condition light, as I said earlier, I never heard of it before, but, would expect the teams would know about it and it would be covered in the drivers meetings.

Also, you seem to be the only one on the internet saying the Vettel / Senna incident was wrongly called.

The only thing we do agree on is that Hulkenberg should have never received a drive through, it is part of racing, plus he was having transmission issues leading up to the crash downshifting was acting up.


Someone needs to put a Brazzers watermark on the bottom of this pic.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A8lUqWfCAAAsijE.jpg

Like this one: :D:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5...xzwwo1_500.jpg

One. Webber had more DNF's. Two. He's the number two in that team just like Massa. Worse equipment (remember front wing debacle last year even though he won that race) three. He is the worst starter ever. Four. Not as good a driver as Vettel. Five. Because of his Crappy starts he had to fight a lot more therefore losing time while Vettel cruised around in clean air most of his wins.

You need to read more than just the Vettel fan page, there are tons of people that agree with me. Or I with them. whichever lol. Fact is Vettel "won" his title in a disputable way. Two penalties he didn't get and 2/3 of the field that just let him by instead of defending their position. He didn't earn it. It was given to him.

Perfect way to end the best seasons I have ever watched. Reading the post race quotes and this one from Kimi was classic:

"I went off at the last corner on lap fifty-two as I couldn’t see well with my visor being dirty and fogged up. Where I went off you can get back on the track by going through the support race pit lane, but you have to go through a gate. I know this as I did the same thing in 2001 and the gate was open that year. Somebody closed it this time. Next year I’ll make sure it’s open again."

You said anyone can win in Vettels car. Mark Weber is in the same car, there is no reason for the team to hobble one car, they want both drivers in the front.

Weber same car not as good a driver, because he is no where near the level of Vettel. Period. THAT is why Vettel is 3X WDC.

Please tell me which of these sites are Vettel Fanboi sites?
Planet F1 | Formula One | News, Standings, Results, Features, Video
Latest Formula 1 News - Grandprix.com
pitpass - the latest, hottest F1 news
Formula 1
Axis Of Oversteer
SPEED - The Motor Sports Authority
Welcome to F1Network.net


And I am done, your claims are kind of funny, Vettel is not capable of running from last to the 6th now? How short your memory is.
http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2012...uDhabi-gp.html

I have to get back to work.

I guess you get DNF's when a component (Transmission ) fails...or someone crashes into you...must be the Driver at fault.

I guess without Webber winning 2 races means RB would not have also won 2012 Constructors Title?

The stupid + - FIA (F1) point scoring (standing) system...

01 Sebastian Vettel 281
02 Fernando Alonso 278
03 Kimi Räikkönen 207
04 Lewis Hamilton 190
05 Jenson Button 188
06 Mark Webber 179
07 Felipe Massa 122
08 Romain Grosjean 96
09 Nico Rosberg 93
10 Sergio Perez 66
11 Nico Hulkenberg 63
12 Kamui Kobayashi 60
13 Michael Schumacher 49
14 Paul di Resta 46
15 Pastor Maldonado 45
16 Bruno Senna 31
17 Jean-Eric Vergne 16
18 Daniel Ricciardo 10
19 Vitaly Petrov 0
20 Timo Glock 0

My REAL Top 5..

Vettel 5 wins
Hamilton 4 wins
Button 3 wins
Alonso 3 wins
Webber 2 wins

Yes I know you have to have 'a' system to separate when wins are even, but how can any driver with one win be rated in the top 3.

......consistency..... Don't get me wrong...I totally see your point, but IMHO...if you're coming away from races with points all the time, you deserve it!

Because Kimi has been very consistent, finished every single race, and in most races in the points.

This has been one of the most unreal seasons ever, we are in the golden years of F1 and I am not sure it will always be this great. Anyone waxing poetic about the 80's needs to look at the results, 4 cars on the lead lap, then lapped cars 1x to 5x over down the field. 1/2 the field DNF. Not the golden years for sure, granted the cars were farking insane!!

We had how many different winners this season? 7 or 8 (just looked it up) 8 different winners. The podiums had many unlikely people on it at the beginning of the season and the WDC did not take shape until the last half of the season.

Sour grapes over the RBR dominance aside, this was a great season, lots of passing lots of drama, lots of uncertainty and so many surprise endings.

While I agree with your assessment, drivers wins tell a story and it is ironic that it Hamilton with 4 wins finished behind Kimi with 1, but as I said, Kimi finished every single race, I think he was the only driver to do so, but I may be wrong with that.

I said vettel's car not webber's. If you think that vettel and webber got equal treatment and equal equipment you're either naive or an idiot. They work the same way at red bull as anywhere else. Driver 2 is the guineapig, gets used alternators (and front wings) if there's only 1 new one, gets team orders and less favorable pitstop strategy if it clashes with driver 1. The car gets even built towards driver 1's preferences to begin with.

Lmao golden years? Not even close! Everything is restricted to hell. 18k V8's instead of 24k V10 and V12's. 1000+ horsepower. No DRS. Refueling. Crazy looking aero on the cars... No the golden years are long gone.

Formula 1 used to be the pinnacle of motorsport. It defied belief what those cars could do. Nowadays a regular road car with airbags, a/c and a cd player can be faster. Not quicker around a track ofcourse, but faster.

The golden years to me were the days Schumacher was desperately trying to win his first title with ferrari. You had Williams with hill and villeneuve, mclaren with hakkinen all battling it out. Everyone piling up just before eau rouge, hakkinen passing Schumacher while they're flying past ricardo zonta, Schumacher driving to the mclaren pit on 3 wheels. Banging into villeneuve at suzuka. Those were the golden years. To me.