Out of it's element
 

No question-but with some practice-the launch can be improved- hey do not feel bad- I actually lost to woman in a Mecuray Mini-Van my first run with the (16.2) my stock 8
We do run,. a sponsored program car (American Tire) 8 (high 9's), not st. legal
The basic 8 platform is pure race car!
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What was your best run Frank?

High 9's? :eek: Whoa--Nice! That brings a tear to my eye... Now if I can just figure out how to do that with an AT... :D

It probably is an AT or sorts... He's not talking about a car that resembles any of the RX-8s you guys drive on the streets though.

Ford has a real problem with product development right now. The mustang reeks of 1968, the thunderbird of the early 1960's, and nothing really modern to speak of. The only thing they are really doing well is putting a big honking engine in the mustang. Despite the confidence of some people, I don't think I want to go red light to red light with a 300 HP vehicle with torque. I hated the mustang at first, but the exterior has grown on me a bit. Unfortunately, you spend most of your time inside, and the interior needs to be sandblasted out of there for a "do-over". It's a great bang for the buck and will give the new 298 hp 350/g35 something to play with, but as for me, I'll be sedately practicing stop light avoidance when it comes to the 'stang.

The Mustang that "reeks of 1968" is a huge success for Ford. Despite the fact that it's retro styling cues may turn off SOME younger buyers, it is selling like crazy and demand doesn't seem to be dropping off. The car is selling well to all intended demographics, not just the baby boomers. If you feel the new Mustang is an example of how Ford has "a real problem with product development", I hope for your sake that you don't have a marketing or sales background.

The TBird, on the other hand, did not appeal to many people outside the generation that knew the original TBird. Ford recognizes this and is pulling the plug on the vehicle. It should not be viewed as a reflection of Ford's current product development plans. Development for the new TBird was initiated in the mid-90s!

I've test driven 2 05 mustang GT's, because my girlfriend was interested in one. The first one had paint missing in the engine bay. The second one had a front bumper that didn't fit. Combine that with an engine that feels like a high-strung four cylinder instead of a torquey V8 and you get one big let-down. Don't try to buckle the seat belt with the door closed either.

I wanted to like the mustang, but besides the looks I was not impressed at all.

Care to elaborate on this comment? My interpretation of a "high strung four cylinder" is an engine that sounds and feels like it's working really hard but just isn't delivering. The 4.6L V-8 along with its AIS and exhaust is tuned to sound very "high strung", and the 0-60 mph and 1/4-mile times don't lie. What exactly are you trying to say?

I think you misunderstood my comment. Ford doesn't appear to have anything new to show the public, so they're going back in the archives to pull retro looking product and tweaking it to modern standards. I never said the stang isn't selling, only that Ford is specializing in "modernizing" old vehicle styles.

By the way, I have a double major in Management and Finance as an undergrad and an MBA from a top 20 school with a marketing concentration along with a successful career in marketing and product development. I would bet I have a little better handle on these things than you give me credit for. I'd be a little careful jumping to conclusions about the intelligence of your verbal targets in the future. :D

The problem with ford. or any car company right now going to the retro look is that they have missed the boat a bit. Remember how great the Chrysler PT cruiser did at first. The new T-bird was doomed from the begineing because it was a bit retro but still looked like a piece of crap. The new Mustang will do well at first, too many Americans are hooked on the muscle car attitude, after a year or so, watch out.

Sorry, maybe I came across a little too strong. All I'm saying is that I don't think it's fair for you to claim that Ford has a problem with product development based on your impressions of two models, one of which has been a huge success. Would you not agree that the new Mustang has been a huge business success for Ford? If so, how can someone with a business background claim that the product development system that produced it is flawed? Besides the new Mustang and TBird, where else has Ford invoked retro styling in its new vehicles?

Yeah, we'll see if the new Mustang suffers the same fate as the PT Cruiser or TBird. Only time will tell. I think the difference between the Mustang and the other two models is that the Mustang has evoked a response from not only the generation that loved the classic Mustangs, but many younger people as well. The TBird was clearly a car that was not going to appeal to many young bueyrs, and the PT Cruiser seems to be the dream car of people like my grandfather-in-law (why? I don't know).

While I'm not a big fan of Ford's quality, I think they hit a home run with the Mustang... they didn't just try to put some retro styling cues in, they did it from the ground up, and backed it up with great handling and a best-bang-for-your-buck engine. I think it will continue to sell in great numbers, especially with no Trans-am/Firebird or Camaro to compete against.

The Thunderbird failed because it was too damned expensive... I think they nailed the styling with it as well, but at that price, consumers have too many higher quality alternatives.

I still don't understand why the PT Cruiser is so popular... that thing could have been a great concept with the same looks, but slightly bigger, rear-wheel drive and a V8 that enthusiasts would love to mod like a real hot rod. Instead, it became the ultimate post-baby boomer vehicle.

They stopped importing the RX-7 because it was not OBDII, after 95 the US mandated that all cars be OBDII. Mazda figured it would cost too much to upgrade the car, they produced the RX-7 up until 1999 outside of the US.

I came on a little strong myself - my apologies. After reading your profile, I see why you might be a little sensitive to the issue of product development. It's not just Ford - look at the Prowler (gone), the PT Cruiser (on life support arguably), the T-bird (gone) and the new Chevy Cruiser clone (not likely to fare much better than the Cruiser). The Ford GT is also extremely reminicent of the late 60's vehicles, but will likely peter out due to pricing and exclusivity. I haven't seen figures on the SSR, but I don't see too many around my area. Without question, the 'stang is a great bang for the buck, but it's styling is a bit polarizing in my opinion, and unfortunately I'm seeing a lot of these around with Avis, Hertz, or Enterprise stickers on the back - never a good sign for a car lover who wants something that stands out.

I agree to some extent. The T-bird was kind of cool looking, but dramatically underpowered and shared a Lincoln LS interior. They had to add 90 hp to the SSR to make it more appealing, and the Prowler was always underpowered with that corporate 3.5 liter V6. With the abscence of the f-bodies, the mustang has very little direct competition, especially at that $25K price point. You have to go to a $32K GTO or a $30K G35 to find something comparable. Plus, you've got the WRX's, EVO's, Saturn Ion Redlines, and SRT4's running around for $5K less and performance that nearly matches the mustang. It's a great time to be 20 - I could drive a mustang or WRX, but when the spoilers get taller than the roofline of the car (ala SRT, Evo, and STi) it's a little too ricey for me.

Gosh, guys... here we go again...

WHY WHY WHY do we have to convince ourselves that the 8 is the best car ever made for every driver ever? Seriously! If you really love your car, you don't need to point out bad things about other cars.

When I was buying my 8, I asked my salesman what he thought of the 350Z just for kicks (I had already decided on the 8). I had worked briefly in car sales and I was wondering what comparisons he'd pull out of his pocket. I was pleasantly suprised to hear that he wouldn't say anything negative, just point out the differences with the 8. He said that the Z was pricier (altho not necc. pricier than my fully-loaded 8) it didn't have rear seats and it had a smaller trunk. Fair enough.

Anyway, the only other car I was really considering was the '05 'Stang. Why? Get ready to hear some GOOD things about another car...

1. I'm a Detroiter and Ford loyalist (and stockholder and former employee). I can't tell you how hard it was to convince myself to buy a car with a Japanese nameplate.

2. I'm sorry but there is something to be said for American muscle. 300 horses. Wow. There is handling and there is raw power. I can appreciate both.

3. That is one mean looking car. Just sick. The foglights in the grille are killer.

4. Owning that car is like owning a piece of American heritage. It's a freakin' Ford Mustang! What car has more heritage other than the 'Vette?

Anyway, I chose the 8 because of:

1. Timeline... I couldn't wait 2 months to get the Mustang.

2. Navigation... an option I was really looking for

3. Refinement/Uniqueness... while the 'Stang would turn heads for the first few months, it would seem like a mundane muscle car after a while... I was looking for something more semi-luxury.

The bonus points for me were:

4. Suicide doors... so convenient and cool

5. I have a slight preference for handling over raw power

Overall, though, I have the utmost respect for the Mustang. Without competition from the Firebird/Camaro, you'd think that Ford wouldn't keep trying to make such a cool car.

Anyway, guys, lay off the put-downs. Try to keep it positive.

I dont like the Mustang very much, I dont understand the concept of make a "retro" car. If I wanted something old I would buy a 60's Mustang :confused:




But the Mustang is very fast, and I dont think the Rx8 will ever be as fast :mad:


Just imagine putting a FI onto a Mustang! :eek:

This Mustang is a home run and i don't believe for a second it will fall off next year. The Mustangs right behind it are all over the place. Mustang has a huge nationwide following and this new build with the retro style I assume is making the enthusiasts very happy in addition to adding new members to the Mustang cult. I think they new exactly what they were doing for a change, after a long while.

By "high strung" I meant to say that the power comes on very VERY late, and ends abruptly.

This'll help explain.

05 mustang GT peak HP @ 5750 RPMs
05 mustang GT torque peak @ ~4500 RPM's
Redline at 6000 RPMs

The power doesn't hit until VERY late in the RPM range of the engine, and the gearing drops you below that powerband when shifting. Most other big V8s give you power the moment you hit the gas, but the GT makes you wait until just before redline. You can't bury the pedal at 4000 RPM's and expect power in the GT. You have to actually wait for it to come. It felt like driving a vtec honda to me.

I floored the pedal at 3500 RPMs in second gear and my girlfriend had enough time to say "Where's the power? Isn't this a v ei.." before finally feeling anything.

You're right about the numbers. They don't lie. I can't say anything bad about a 13.5 second 1/4 mile, but I didn't FEEL like I was driving a muscle car. And that was what killed it for me.

Ford owns Mazda. So it should've been very easy for you to convince yourself of it.

I agree though. People should really focus on the cons AND pros when discussing cars. All cars have SOMETHING that sets them apart. It also bugs me when people over inflate the capability of their cars and under estimate the capabilities of other cars. Like an RX-8 will NOT beat an SRT-4 in a straight line. An RX-8 will NOT beat an STi on a normal track considering equal skills in the driver.

Heh, try convincing the Ford-employed UAW workers of this. While you're at it, make sure you film it and post it on the forum. Seriously, many old-school UAW workers in Detroit will key, for example, a Ford Focus produced in Mexico by non-union workers if it's parked in the lot of their assembly plant. I've heard many stories... you're not safe with a Mazda here unless it's the Mazda6, which is built by UAW workers.

*Disclaimer* This doesn't apply to all union workers, just some of the more disgruntled ones. There are a lot of newer UAW workers who aren't brand loyal at all.

Yeah, I know Ford "owns" Mazda. If it weren't for that, I don't know what I'd be driving...

I just had to keep saying "Ford owns Mazda" to myself and ignore:

* Ford only owns 30% of Mazda
* Ford had pretty much no part in RX-8 development
* The RX-8 is like 99% assembled in Japan

I'm pretty sure it's the most Japanese car they make. I just kept reminding myself that a small portion of my purchase WILL be coming back to me through my stock ownership. Cognitive dissonance! Aaarrgh!!!

Yeah, basically...

Honestly, though, it's not like these people will key your car because they're UAW, they're keying your car because they're assholes and the union thing is just an excuse. Assholes come union and non-union.

I remember the days consulting for auto industry. We'd go to plants from time to time... If we didn't have a GM vehicle when heading to a GM plant, we'd go rent one... of course, that's more because we were consultants, not because we were worried about getting our tires slashed... (Would you show up to a Microsoft engagement with an Apple Powerbook in tow?)

There definitely were some plants where you could see that the mentality was "old school union" to a fault... there were people just lounging around reading newspapers and playing cards... when you walked by them in slacks and a dress shirt, they would glare at you like you almost ran over them at a crosswalk. Disturbing stuff.

Of course, other plants were amazingly clean and efficient with outstanding quality control. Anyway, I digress.

While the peak power hits late, you're still working with a boatload of power and torque....

I really love my RX8, but I have to admit that I eye every 2005 Mustang that I see. I really like the way that they look, but after I saw the interior, I was no longer interested in actually owning one. Way to cheap looking for me. And it does make a big difference to me that everyone and their mom will be driving one soon. I think the RX8 has alot more character. I think the Mustang is particularly popular in Texas, and I have heard people who come here from other places make jokes about it's proliferation. Yes, the RX8 doesn't have the horsepower of a muscle car, but I am 32 and long past the days of wanting a car simply for speed.

Ahem!

Ford owns about 34% of Mazda. The largest shareholder and by Japanese law gives them controlling interest of the company.

According to the Japanese themselves (mags), Ford has had plenty of say in the RX-8 development. They ok'd it from the start and they have been arguing with Mazda about how to get more power... FI or NA displacement. Ford is for FI.

Sure the RX-8 is about entirely assembled in Japan. The engine is unique so no parts sharing and hand-built in Japan. Other parts... well the radio is shared across all of Ford group it seems... The 05 Stang radio looks very related... anyone want to pull one to check?

It is the most Japanese car they make. They also make very English and very Australian cars. What's that have to do with the price of tea?