Federighi

iTrader: (7)

Hey Club!

I'm selling off my cars and searching for a nice family vehicle. If you have any direct experience or automotive expertise to share I'd very much appreciate your insight. I don't work in the industry or have auto connections per se, so any inside information would be extremely helpful. Just another customer at the end of the day.

I've been primarily looking at European automakers but may be open to unique suggestions; don't think I'd entertain Japanese or American cars but you never know. Looking for something 2012 or newer, automatic, AWD, min 2k+ lbs towing capacity and large interior volume suitable for hauling two 50+lb dogs + groceries, children, luggage, etc. Hybrid ok, not really into SUV's. More focused on wagons. No fixed budget but prefer to not have to spend over $50-60k on something nice.

Main candidates so far:
2012+ Merc e350 wagon
2014+ Merc e63 wagon
2014+ Volvo v60 Polestar
2014+ Volvo v60 Cross Country

Maybes:
2016+ Merc GLE
2016+ Merc GLC

Hoping to add some more interesting options to the list! Tryin to make this purchase in the next few months.

Thanks for looking!

Loki

iTrader: (1)

My friend had a V60 Polestar for a while. Great car. Horrible gas mileage in the city. The 2014+ aren't thaaat big? 2 big dogs might fill ot right up.

Have you considered an Outback? An XT should tick all your boxes and EyeSight is pretty awesome.

jmauld

Model Y

spectre6000

BMW made wagons. Currently in the market for one myself to compliment the RX-8 in the snowy months. No idea about towing capability though... Have a different vehicle for that.

Compared to the Volvos, it's longitudinal (which will be a PITA to work on).

I know a guy who had an E63, and he didn't care for it all that much. The performance is so high that you can't really use it, and it's got its own reliability problems being so high strung (this is according to him through my memory).

A more pedestrian E-class wagon was on my shortlist. Seems pretty stout, but also fairly complicated.

The E91 3 series wagons had NA straight sixes through 2012, were reasonably nice, but also mechanically quite simple. Seem to hold up pretty well from the examples I've seen. The N52 engine is supposed to be borderline bulletproof if you make any effort to maintain it. Current thread on one of those forums about a guy about to hit 500k on his without any major events. Manuals exist, but aren't common. The subsequent generation 3-series wagon (last sold in the US) used a turbo four that sounds like it's not as reliable, and also just four cylinders.

The 5-series wagons had the twin turbo N54 that seems to be the current tuner darling. Spiritual successor to the 2JZ-GTE. Lots of horsepower available with simple bolt-ons and a flash. Manuals exist, but don't seem very common here either. A bit more complex than the 3-series with rear steering, and I think a rear air suspension (at least optional, I haven't had a chance yet to dig too deep on the 5-series).

Either way, I enjoyed my past BMW, and thought it was pretty nice to work on. Wife liked it too, and she is the reason the BMWs floated over the Merc at the end of the day.

Audi made wagons, but I've seen too many horror stories with Audis to feel like I'd want one. Also, Audi seems to have replaced BMW as the douchebag vehicle of choice.

Federighi

iTrader: (7)

I've looked at the v60's in person at the dealer. Longer car, seems to be a good choice. Never know until I actually put my dogs in there though I suppose. They're good dogs and travel well.

My friend and his family have a newer Subie that they're happy with. Some time ago I considered getting one of the manual turbo Forrester's before the whole jdm craze hit every Japanese manufacturer. Unfortunately both of those manufacturers have a certain stigma on the entire west coast. There's a theory that the Model Y did save that guy who tried to kill his family on hwy1 a few months ago, so...

And something to consider that I didn't previously mention is that where I live in Monterey, the power goes out fairly consistently and I see my neighbors' model3 up the creek without a paddle after a day or so. I do have a solar generator which is more than capable of charging but not particularly something I'd look forward to dealing with every other month. But would be fun being the only electric vehicle out after a long outage.

Federighi

iTrader: (7)

I had Audi a6 avant that was a nightmare. Definitely a lot of older BMW wagon options but haven't really considered any. Have checked out the X7 but not into SUV's and the new X5's aren't nearly large enough.

Mostly going to be my wife's car. Plan is to keep for along time. Maintenance shouldn't pose an issue, I'll bring it to a shop.

We've been particularly interested in a 2018+ e63 wagon but up there in price. Has all the fancy 'track setting' functions for the adult child, so I can still scratch that itch every once in a while.

delhi

I don't know if BMWNA imports the wagon version of the G20 3-series. I've seen LCI F3x 3-wagon. Those are nice. It's 4-pot turbo. Not sure if there's a 340i B58 wagon. That would be awesome. The B58 inline 6 is super sweet. Found also in the Zupra.
For the BMW e9x, I'd either find an LCI 328i wagon with it's reliable N52 or... yeah that's that. I don't think there was ever a N55 335i wagon. I'd stay away from N54 BMWs. They make our rotary reliability woes seem quaint. Think FD unreliability with $$$ parts/labour.

Frankly for a family hauler, I don't see the point of a uber-wagon AMG M SRT Demon whatever. Young 'uns are sure to spill stuff on it, driving kids friends, summertime BBQ picnic and circling around Costco parking lot is no more fun than if you're in a Hyundai Sante Fe. Leave the driving fun with a dedicated sportscar.

If you are not averse to SUVs. There X-series from BMW.
I feel Merc has lots its way. Their cars are just a bunch of blobs.
Genesis makes the GV70 which I find quite nice. Maybe keep it Mazda and feel out a CX-whatever.

Federighi

iTrader: (7)

I've given some potential thought to the X7 but it's a rather large vehicle and not really my thing, plus BMW's are super basic imo. I'd personally never buy a korean car and unfortunately you couldn't pay me to get back into another mazda. We just bought our '22 mazda3 turbo with all kinds of premium warrantees, etc and as someone who's always worn their 'heart of their sleeve' I can say that in my opinion, this whole brand has made some very poor decisions. The quality leaves much to be desired and after living with it for a year, I do not consider their materials, design, technology / other features, etc high quality or premium in any way. They're so far behind on comfort, style, class, etc comparatively to premium brands and price points. Worst part is that anytime I mention these sentiments to other 'mazda enthusiasts' the holy grail ND Miata is always brought up as the brand savior. In all honesty, I'll probably never drive another Japanese vehicle again. Everything that was once desirable about them is now long gone.

Still primarily looking at wagon's or similar design. Not worried about the car getting used / dirty / stained, etc; you only get one life and it's just a piece of metal. My philosophy is that's what cars were meant for. Just like a fancy pair of shoes, baseball glove, kitchen knife, fishing rod, etc. That's why you purchased it. I think modernity has created this weird attachment to material objects where people would rather look at something and brag about how X, Y, Z it is as opposed to actually enjoying it.

A few more options recently came to mind.
2018+ Merc e400 wagon
older gen Merc G-wagon (price point is on par with some other options)
VW westfalia / eurovan (rare for sure)

Meat Head

You’re smart to stay away from the Hyundai/Kia models. We bought a Kona that I have bad feelings about. Build quality is not good. It drives okay for an SUV but, that doesn’t say much. It reminds me of the Dodge Dakota 4*4 work truck I had that ate 3 transmissions, one front differential, and a transfer case in 7 years. Rode nice but, crap quality.

Good luck in your search for a wagon. Regret I couldn’t convince my wife to do that instead of the SUV thing.

Shaozhou Zhang

Mazda released their new CX90 with turbo inline 6, a bit expensive though.

emuman

I can recommend the Mazda 6 wagon as family Car. Reliable, very nice interior and Mazda has the best operating concept, not relying on touchscreens.

sonicsdaman

iTrader: (3)

I know you said not jdm but I'm digging the new Subaru Outback wilderness.

$38,500, 3,500 lb towing, awd, it's technically a wagon, should be cheaper to maintain than most euro wagons. Also my 03 legacy has 260,000 miles on the original engine and trans and my sisters 04 impresa had 302,000 last I saw it so Subaru's can be reliable

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

Does it have car or truck MPG?

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

^ Non RX8 car^

sonicsdaman

iTrader: (3)

The wilderness trim has the worst mpg probably due to the offroad knobby tires. google says 26/21 or 29/22 or 32/26 depending on trim and other check box items.
OP didn't have mpg as a consideration factor so I didn't bother including it. Mine gets 27 usually.

Federighi

iTrader: (7)

Thanks Sonic! Wow that's incredible milage on some of your cars and yeah I've seen a few of the new Subi's on the road that def have an intriguing look. Gas milage isn't a big factor. But after our latest mazda purchase, we refuse to buy another Japanese car.

We've been seriously looking at 2017+ Volvo v90's. We thought a v60 might cut it but after seeing in person is way too small for what we're looking for. Also keeping an eye out for Mercedes 350, 400 and 450 wagons but are very rare and at a price premium by comparison.

SparklingFresca

You clearly won't settle for anything less than Mercedes Quality. Not sure why you would consider a Mazda with the options you are interested in, seems strange.

Federighi

iTrader: (7)

I made it pretty clear that I'm not looking at Japanese vehicles and European manufacturers just happen to offer more features (typically standard) and offer a higher quality product (imo). It's also worth noting that the price point between Japanese and German vehicles has never been closer, so why settle for something basic when you're in a similar price point. Japanese vehicles were always there for 'average American's' who didn't want / need something fancy but in today's market that's not the case anymore. We paid some $45k out the door for her '22 mazda3 turbo; which was ridiculous imo btw but that's what she wanted at the time I guess and ultimately regrets the purchase now.

10 years ago you could go to any dealer lot and look at various brand-new cars for well under $20k, today even the cheapest cars are floating mid - high 20's. And that's for a mazda with all kinds issues out the door like multiple electrical pcm bugs, cheap / thin paint, etc. When you've the buyer, you are more than entitled to have your own standards for where your money goes.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

45k US for a Mazda 3? Dude. That might explain why Mazda isn't too popular there. Not my place to convince you either way, but I find japanese luxury brands (lexus, infinity, acura) are great value for similar quality/features from Germany. With less maintenance overhead.

Federighi

iTrader: (7)

Crazy right!?! This was with a few premium warranties added on like prepaid maintenance, wheel protection program, etc but yeah, I was shocked at the time. Even more so that we're just walking away from it now and the value has already dropped below $30k. Ouch!

Honda is the greatest Japanese company ever imo and while I do like the look of a few Acura's, their interiors are awful and there are no models which are large enough for what we're looking for. Some Lexus are nice but I could never convince myself to pay so much for a Japanese vehicle. They are, have been and always will be cheapie cars to me. That's why I became a fan in the first place, because it was reasonably priced quality that an average person could afford. Not so anymore.

We live in a weird world where video games, social media and online publications now have an affect on market value(s).

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Cadillac CTS-V Station Wagon; 556 hp, 551 ft-lbs

Federighi

iTrader: (7)

Quick update.

My wife and I have decided on a low mile CPO 2018 Volvo V90 T6 Cross-Country for our primary family vehicle / her daily driver. Nice fit and finish plus solid construction and design throughout imo.

And since my Speed3 and rx8 are unsuitable, I'm having to look for an inexpensive replacement vehicle. Ultimately would like to find something within / around the $10k price point. Storage / travel space, economy and reliability are the highest priorities for me.

Here's a list of my tops picks so far:
-2010+ Prius V
-1995 - 2010 Mercedes E-series wagon
-2000 - 2010 BMW 3 / 5 series wagon
-2003 - 2006 Explorer Sport Trac
-2005 - 2008 Ford F150 crew cab 4x4
-1980+ VW Vanagon / Westfalia
-1980's Toyota Van (funny 80's wedge car)
-2001+ Mitsubishi Montero XLS

I really have no idea what I'll potentially pick at this point. Love to hear any constructive thoughts or suggestions.

Thanks for looking!

Meat Head

Lands Surveyor I worked for in the 80’s had one of those Toyota vans. Quirky and slow but, quite durable. I curbed it a couple times until I got used to sitting in front of the axle. If not this (with a header to make it cool) then either wagon cause wagons are great (SUV’s suck). Lastly, in a rare occurrence I have to agree with Jeremy Clarkson - just say no to the Prius.

Federighi

iTrader: (7)

Yeah I remember seeing them in my childhood. Always thought they were funny / interesting vehicle. I figured if I were able to find one in roadworthy condition, I imagine it shouldn't be too hard to keep on the road and have some fun. After alI it's a Toyota at the end of the day. And I've looked into the BMW 3 and 5 series wagons. Nice product, lots of good reviews. Definitely a top contender imo. Thanks @delhi for the recommendation.

After some more thinking, also considering:
-2003 - 2015 Honda Pilot
-2006 - 2012 Honda Ridgeline
-2004 - 2013 BMW x5
-2003 - 2013 BMW x3

ps- always wanted a Mistu expo but def too small and doubtful I'd ever find a decent one.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/39722/...ing-of-the-90s

Laminar

That car MSRPs for $38k. It's kind of wild paying all of the finance bro's sucker taxes (prepaid maintenance, unnecessary warranties, etc.) and then getting mad about depreciation based on total purchase price. To make it worse, the most highly-optioned trim will also experience the most depreciation relative to its peers. It may have been worth the $15k extra for you to get all of the leather and bells and whistles over the base model, but the secondary market is absolutely not paying that difference.

Losing $8k in the first year of a $38k car is about 21% depreciation.

For comparison, a 2022 V90 with an MSRP of $65,345 currently books for $49k, for a depreciation of 24%.

A loaded E400 wagon will MSRP for $79,310, currently books for $63k, for about 20% depreciation.

Nothing about the 3's depreciation is out of line.