New speed cameras trap motorists from space
04-21-2010, 09:44 AM
#1
New speed cameras trap motorists from space
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...rom-space.html
The cameras, which combine number plate reading technology with a global positioning satellite receiver, are similar to those used in roadworks.
The AA said it believed the new system could cover a network of streets as opposed to a straight line, and was “probably geared up to zones in residential areas.”
The Home Office is testing the cameras at two sites, one in Southwark, London, and the other A374 between Antony and Torpoint in Cornwall.
The `SpeedSpike’ system, which calculates average speed between any two points in the network, has been developed by PIPS Technology Ltd, an American-owned company with a base in Hampshire.
Details of the trials are contained in a House of Commons report. The company said in its evidence that the cameras enabled "number plate capture in all weather conditions, 24 hours a day". It also referred to the system's "low cost" and ease of installation.
The system could be used for "main road enforcement for congestion reduction and speed enforcement", and could help to "eliminate rat-runs" and cut speeds outside schools, it added. It could also reduce the need for speed humps.
The development of speed cameras has raised concerns about expanding state surveillance.
The Home Office said it was unable to comment on the trials because of "commercial confidentiality".
The AA said it would watch the system “carefully” but it did not believe there was anything sinister. “It is a natural evolution of the technology that is out there,” a spokesman said.
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While the technology is there for the Military & Spy sats, I don't know about commercial sats being able to read a license plate number. The cost of putting one of these up would seem prohibitive. They couldn't get you on a east/west road?
The cameras, which combine number plate reading technology with a global positioning satellite receiver, are similar to those used in roadworks.
The AA said it believed the new system could cover a network of streets as opposed to a straight line, and was “probably geared up to zones in residential areas.”
The Home Office is testing the cameras at two sites, one in Southwark, London, and the other A374 between Antony and Torpoint in Cornwall.
The `SpeedSpike’ system, which calculates average speed between any two points in the network, has been developed by PIPS Technology Ltd, an American-owned company with a base in Hampshire.
Details of the trials are contained in a House of Commons report. The company said in its evidence that the cameras enabled "number plate capture in all weather conditions, 24 hours a day". It also referred to the system's "low cost" and ease of installation.
The system could be used for "main road enforcement for congestion reduction and speed enforcement", and could help to "eliminate rat-runs" and cut speeds outside schools, it added. It could also reduce the need for speed humps.
The development of speed cameras has raised concerns about expanding state surveillance.
The Home Office said it was unable to comment on the trials because of "commercial confidentiality".
The AA said it would watch the system “carefully” but it did not believe there was anything sinister. “It is a natural evolution of the technology that is out there,” a spokesman said.
--------------------------
While the technology is there for the Military & Spy sats, I don't know about commercial sats being able to read a license plate number. The cost of putting one of these up would seem prohibitive. They couldn't get you on a east/west road?
04-21-2010, 10:46 AM
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I'm thinking the only way this would work is using the satellite to identify individual cars giving them an internal reference number, and when it sees they are passing a road level camera set up to specifically capture the plate, it does so to finally identify it.
Just think of the angles involved. In order to track traffic and individual cars through city streets between buildings, the satellite has to be geo stationary directly above (well, within a few degrees), otherwise there will be alot of dead spots. And unless the UK decides to start having a 3rd plate on the roof, the satellite can not possibly have the angle to read a plate. Especially since most plates are under some sort of overhang built into the car (think of our rear plate indentation). In order to get that angle to read the plate, they have to have too much angle to be able to track through cities or even moderately tall buildings. Even 2 story buildings would probably cut off tracking. Of course, geostationary orbits are only within a few degrees of the Equator right? Which would probably be at an angle to the UK enough to read plates...and have lots of line of sight interference from buildings in the cities.
You can get it good enough to not get fooled or disrupted by a few buildings, but too many, and you have too much of an error chance. After all, how many tan Lexus RX300 SUVs are out there? Or tan Toyota Corollas? etc... It has to maintain visibility with no more than a couple seconds of disruption to LOS to maintain provable validation.
It would be much easier to require all vehicles have variable speed limiters that the module is either GPS based and encoded maps or take a signal from passing speed limit signs that changes the limiter, etc...
And any method is foolable/hackable.
Just think of the angles involved. In order to track traffic and individual cars through city streets between buildings, the satellite has to be geo stationary directly above (well, within a few degrees), otherwise there will be alot of dead spots. And unless the UK decides to start having a 3rd plate on the roof, the satellite can not possibly have the angle to read a plate. Especially since most plates are under some sort of overhang built into the car (think of our rear plate indentation). In order to get that angle to read the plate, they have to have too much angle to be able to track through cities or even moderately tall buildings. Even 2 story buildings would probably cut off tracking. Of course, geostationary orbits are only within a few degrees of the Equator right? Which would probably be at an angle to the UK enough to read plates...and have lots of line of sight interference from buildings in the cities.
You can get it good enough to not get fooled or disrupted by a few buildings, but too many, and you have too much of an error chance. After all, how many tan Lexus RX300 SUVs are out there? Or tan Toyota Corollas? etc... It has to maintain visibility with no more than a couple seconds of disruption to LOS to maintain provable validation.
It would be much easier to require all vehicles have variable speed limiters that the module is either GPS based and encoded maps or take a signal from passing speed limit signs that changes the limiter, etc...
And any method is foolable/hackable.
04-21-2010, 11:36 AM
#5
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oh geez, more speed traps only these ones you can't even see!
poor Brits.
I hope this doesn't happen here.
poor Brits.
I hope this doesn't happen here.
04-21-2010, 11:42 AM
#6
04-21-2010, 12:59 PM
#8
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Oh geese... you guys need to work on your reading comprehension skills. The cameras use the GPS system to determine their positions so they know the exact distance between the two. The camera is on the street and not in space. A burning tire will defeat this system as usual. The advantage is no radar to warn those with detectors.
04-21-2010, 03:35 PM
#10
Really, Al? "The Motor Law"? The concept of Big Brother, the Nanny State, and all other excessive intrusions into personal liberty? Don't tell me you already installed the mounting system on your wall for the camera just like in "1984"...........
It isn't that we might be able to easily circumvent certain intrusions upon us it's that we, under the U.S. and state Constitutions, should not HAVE TO.
It isn't that we might be able to easily circumvent certain intrusions upon us it's that we, under the U.S. and state Constitutions, should not HAVE TO.
04-25-2010, 09:02 AM
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It could also reduce the need for speed humps.
Right up there with the double nickle and red light cameras with shortened yellows. Why is anyone surprised?
Ken
05-06-2010, 02:20 AM
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they've been implementing this for years.
What I've been thinking for a while is.. You can track the speed of a cellphone, via towers or GPS. There's many apps out their for smartphones and feature phones alike. In fact, Sprint Navigation uses your speed to calculate your ETA, and Sprnt Navi is available on almost all of sprints phones. VZ Navigation is pretty similar. Not sure about T-Mobile, etc.
Some standalone GPS units have cellular connection capabilities for weather/traffic updates.
You could use then, any connected device ans see their speed (whether they have a GPS app open or not) and route an alart through a server that notificies nearby Patrol unit. You could also set certain parameters like ~5-10 mph over, a small warning, ~11-20 mph over bigger warning and to more Police units, and ~21-x over, high alert warning.
When a patrol accepts the warning, the GPS coordinates would show up on his laptop (all cop ars have on) and the cop will be able to see all updates=speed, direction, location on map, etc.
the only way to avoid getting caught speeding would be to turn your phone or GPS unit off. At least the data connection.
I'm not sure too many people would even know about it. Already cellular phones companies are regularly contact by law enforcement for coordinates of known suspects, call history, etc. The information is available already, the difference would be packaging it into a up to date log program that has the capabilities of sending out alerts to other systems.
I'm not sure if cellular phone companies log any GPS coordinates though, as when law enforcement request it, then they get that information. I don't believe they already have it on file.
oh, and to prevent bandwidth overload (tho to sed the coordinates the size would be smaller than a text message) you could set it to send coordinates only after speeds of ~75 MPH or ~15-x over speedlimit.
05-06-2010, 02:33 AM
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Yet at the end of the day this technology does nothing to actually stop speeding. Since the emphasis is on "saving lives" it's clear the true motivation (as with everything) is on making money and not reducing speeding.
We've been up and down this issue here in Arizona. The whole reason the program was put into place was to fill a gap in the state's budget. Safety isn't even a concern since there's a mountain of independent reports which show increased accidents and property damage as a result of this kind of technology.
We've been up and down this issue here in Arizona. The whole reason the program was put into place was to fill a gap in the state's budget. Safety isn't even a concern since there's a mountain of independent reports which show increased accidents and property damage as a result of this kind of technology.
05-06-2010, 02:55 AM
#19
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Japan already has this method in place. GPS enabled limiter chips. When a car drives to a track/testing ground (higher speed approved place) then the limiter is turned off. On highways it's capped, if I'm remembering correctly, to 96 MPH and on streets, 54 MPH.
they've been implementing this for years.
they've been implementing this for years.
05-06-2010, 11:09 PM
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I'm pretty sure you're talking about the GTR here? In the GTR's case, it's limited to 180kph unless it gets to a track. This is only for the GTR to the best of my knowledge, and is not applied on any other car. And in the GTR's case, it's not 96MPH on motorway and 54MPH on streets either. Speed limits on street in Japan is 50~70kph depending on area. Motorways are 80~110 depending on area. I regularly visit Japan (family there)
05-09-2010, 03:24 PM
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Spy vrs spy stuff.
Yes it uses road mounted cameras for photos. There are already a grwoing number of folks in Texas who have coated their plates with a transparent reflective coating (looks like wax) with a UV lamp; it's just beyond human visibility bu within the range of the camera. All the camera sees is white plate, no characters.
Kits with lamps and coating are about $100.
Yes it uses road mounted cameras for photos. There are already a grwoing number of folks in Texas who have coated their plates with a transparent reflective coating (looks like wax) with a UV lamp; it's just beyond human visibility bu within the range of the camera. All the camera sees is white plate, no characters.
Kits with lamps and coating are about $100.
05-10-2010, 12:12 PM
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mythbusters tested all that stuff as false..
http://mythbustersresults.com/episode73
http://mythbustersresults.com/episode73
05-10-2010, 12:21 PM
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and again: http://mythbustersresults.com/episode87
