ASH8

6 Page 'WHEELS' Comparison Test....Between Mazda's MPS6 (Mazdaspeed6) and Subaru Liberty GT (2.0i)...the conclusion...

.....For all its worth, the Subaru feels like a good car that's been raised to a higher level, while the MPS (Mazdaspeed6) is a steroidal 6 that is at times inspiring, stunning, even brilliant. And it's available $4000(AU) cheaper than the GT without compromising the go-fast bits. For driving enthusiasts who prefer their performance delivered in a brilliantly subtle package, the 6 MPS (Mazdaspeed6) is not a car to be ignored.

Verdict::::::Mazda
4.5/5 Stars Mazda MPS6 (AWD)
Good: Stunning Engine;Engaging Chassis;Beautifully Tuned AWD system.
Bad: Sensitive Clutch;Heavier on Fuel;Brakes wilt slightly under pressure.
My note.Mazda is 204 KGS (450LBS) Heavier

Verdict::::::Subaru
4/5 Start Subaru GT (AWD)
Good: Strong,linear performance;Faithful and involving chassis with lively edge.
Bad: Rough-corner steering kickback; Not as sharply honed as MPS (Mazdaspeed6).

From... WHEELS Magazine Australia, December, 2005 Issue.

DARKMAZ8

wow 450lbs heavier!!!!!

Steiner

Are the Legacy and Liberty the same car?

CERAMICSEAL

I met one of the most significant individuals at Mazda NAO R&D center (Whose name I will withhold) and asked him what the deal was with the weight of this car and especially suspension components. In extremely professional manner, he held his tongue although I could see he had some opinions he could have expressed.

ASH8

That's the leather option pack which is about 27KGs/48LBS Heavier than STD MPS6.

Also, when you visually compare the drivetrain/chassis pics you can see that the Mazda's suspension looks stronger/heavier, particularly the rear suspension/crossmembers etc.

ASH8

Yes, except you guys have the Legacy 2.5 litre engine, and 2.5 Turbo

In Australia its the Liberty GT 2.0litre DOHC Turbo AWD.
There is also the Liberty 2.5 and 3.0 litre non turbo in OZ.

The Mazda MPS6 your MazdaSpeed6 is a 2.3litre 4 cylinder DOHC Turbo.

HO HO HO!

Tirminyl

Also, the MPS6 has about 252hp or so and not the US 274.

DreRX8

I checked out the MS6--nice car--but those breaks don't look up to the task.

rx8wannahave

I saw it at the auto show and I liked it also, but don't worry too much about the breaks because if you are taking this car to the track just upgrade it later.

I wish I could afford one so I could trade in my wife's 6 for the MS6.

Tirminyl

Yeah, don't worry about the breaks their nothing. It's the brakes you have to watch out for.

BoxerGT2.5

The Aussies get a 2.0L twinscroll. USDM gets a 2.5L with a VF40. But essentially yes, they are the same car.

crossbow

The legacy also beat the MPS 6 on laptimes, and in the saloom. There is alot of problems swarming around right now with the MPS 6 and major power loss. Something is causing a good chunk of cars to suddenly cut all boost past 4,000 rpm. (peak power at 5500).

If this is happening to reviewers, they are going to see a noticable dropoff in power. There is also a power dropoff when charge temps rise, and coolant temps (obviously), as well a power dropoff if you use anything less then 93 octane in the car. (the 91 octane models are rated 20 bhp less)

Page 1
http://members.optusnet.com.au/m6gr8/mpsvsgt1.pdf

Page 2
http://members.optusnet.com.au/m6gr8/mpsvsgt2.pdf

Fastest 0-100km for the MPS 6 was 5.5 seconds. (40F-50F Ambient)
Slowest 0-100km time was 6.4 seconds, with a 400m time of 14.2 seconds. (90-100F)

Tirminyl

Possibly heatsoak a part of the problem?

ASH8

MMMmmm, not sure about that one mdaj..

The Mazda MPS6 and Mazdaspeed 6 are the same car with the same 2.3 Litre (2261) turbo engine, so I don't know where the US gets the extra 10% HP you claim from.... perhaps your conversion is wrong?

Mazda Australia's brochure here says ..

Max power 190 KW at 5,500 RPM.......or (255 HP My Conversion)
Tourque 380 NM at 3,000 RPM.......or (280 Lbs Ft My Conversion)

Tirminyl

Tuning.

190kw is converted to 254hp (from a simple online convert utility). I also read the hp amount in an Australian review.

Edit- I also know the MPS6 and Mazdaspeed 6 are the same car with the same engine. I was just stating, for those that did not know, the Australian model had less advertised HP vs the American 274 advertised HP. Though, we are both saying the same thing. I just previously worded it wrong.

dmp

I would NOT be surprised to see the Aus. Rating of HP is more accurate than the US rating. Mazda's HP numbers are suspect to me...forever more.

ASH8

What is the RPM range for your MS6 to get 274 HP..Cheers
The conversion is 254.79 to be exact..

Tirminyl

Mazda's numbers are always suspect. If I were them, I would underrate my engines.

274hp @ 5,500rpm / 280lb-ft @ 3,000

ASH8

I agree with the MNA 280lb-ft at 3000RPM....where do they find the extra 19 HP from???

Mazda Japan use Metric units for their specs, so I am guessing that its Mazda North America that are doing the conversions, or are they doing a live test in the States? on the MS6.

Given the buy back issues with some of the first RX-8 owners, who is correct here with the MS6?

ASH8

Or can it be gas (fuel)???

Premium Unleaded Fuel (95+) rec. here for the MPS6.

Our unleaded fuels are octane RON ULP91, PULP95, and PULP98.

crossbow

I'm under the impression that the Aussie spec's 91 octane. US spec's 93. There is your 19-20 bhp.

The MPS starts making crazy power past 2,500, and pulls all the way to 5,500, after which there is a drop in power as it flatlines and dips down by the 6700 redline.

Oddly those with boost controllers note that boost level is staying constant...so something else is sucking away all the power after 5500 rpm. Kinda of silly if you ask me, since mazda made it a big point to raise the redline to 6700 rpm (from 6500 on the standard 6i). What was the point of raising the redline if its making considerably less power by it?

Btw the torque and revised gearing are the same on the MPS 6 in aus. Only the bhp is slightly less.

The biggest difference between the aussie reviews, and the canadian reviews is ambient temp. Most of the mid US and higher is experiencing near freezing temps, with highs in the 40's. That aussie review I posted was in 104F.

Japan8

JDM rates using primarily "ps" which is close (but a little more) than "hp". "KW" units are sometimes also published, but in brackets...

map

I'm not the greatest Mazda historian, but have they ever produced a really good turbo engine? The three i know of

1.MSP Protege - lots of quirks, dips in the powerband. I don't remember so much anymore, but i really wanted one at the time and it didn't sound good.
2. FD - reliability "issues"
3. MSP6 - massive heatsoak and ????. I guess we don't really know yet.

It doesn't seem like mazda has a great record with turbos.

Tirminyl

I would love to have a 323 GTX but thats beside the point...

1.- No. I have one and the ECU is crap, though not as bad once I got an exhaust. The car runs pig rich which causes hesitation at 3-3500rpm and due to placement of intercooler heatsoak is an issue. There was no build-up of the motor at all to handle boost therefore, I have not touched my boost at all.

2. Cooling problems. Twin Turbo mess, you know the rest.

3. Heatsoak, ???

4. Mazdaspeed Miata- Though I believe the engine was ready for boost due it previously being turboed. Though, small intercooler, tuning issues.

ASH8

From my memory and work..

1985-6 Mazda 626 Turbo..A few imported into OZ, the first GC10E1 626 FWD 5 Door Hatch...
1988-89 323 1.6 AWD turbo, elec adjust suspension...A few sold and used for Rallying.
1989-90/91 MX-6 2 Door coupe FWD 4 Wheel Steering Turbo 2.2ltr 16 valve 4cyl.

The MX-6 (a 626 with 2 Doors) sold well, and was quite reliable and fast.
The main problems we had were ABS Warning lights, and a few leaking factory sun roofs. The MX-6 was the best out of that bunch...