VikingDJ

You're probably right. Make mistake about it though, the STI is still a large increase in power over the Legacy GT in bone stock form. I really don't think this 250hp MS3 is truly gonna be detuned like the Legacy, therefore one can argue various stock dyno comparisons, and realize that 274 is very much on the friendly side of hp specs, when you compare it to other cars, especially Subaru. That's just the way Mazda is though. It's just very innaccurate, considering they are still on the learning side of developing their engines, and can't yet reach the goals they have set out for, and probably hope to work up to the actual number over time. They are on the right path though with this MS3. That's just my opinion though, but it seems rather obvious to me.

Japan8

They are a bit of different cars, but between a MS3 and a MS6... which is the better enthusiasts choice? Maybe only test drives will tell...

VikingDJ

Well, the MS6 has definitely not won over the enthusiasts, which is why they are being forced to unload them at incredible prices. It makes sense, because this car feels and drives very luxurious, and has not faired well against the Legacy GT in performance. It's heavy, comfortable, powerful, but the overall performance of this vehicle is lacking from an enthusiasts standpoint. It has insane body roll, and is not a high competitor. It's more of a car your non enthusiast driver would enjoy owning. It's a great car, but it just has too much of a classy big car feel. The arrival of the MS3 has pushed people into waiting, because they can get a compact, much lighter and better performing car for less money, The MS6 is gonna slowly fade away, but you can't take anything away from this fine vehicle. It's just a great all around year round car, with plenty to offer price wise for someone looking for a luxurious, sporty, powerful performance sedan. I don't know why anyone would get a Regular 6 when for virtually the same price you can get your hands on an MS6 Sport.

ASH8

Zoom, I was just about to post the same thoughts....edumnds says..

"And after just five minutes in the car, any doubts we had about dubious traction levels under power or torque-steer problems dissolved instantly. As a top priority on the R&D team's list, engineers have not only reinforced the driveshaft, but have also fitted a specially tuned torque-sensing super limited-slip differential. And when called on to control overzealous right boots, Mazda's Dynamic Stability Control intervenes without interfering in the fun."

Drive.com.au dislikes the "takeover" DSC control, the seats, etc.....
As far as I am concerned (Fairfax Press, Sydney ONLY) are not very competent in reviews of most new vehicles...

As I posted a few weeks ago WHEELS magazine here rated the MPS3 as on of the hottest hatches ever...there road test was a great read.....Edmunds gives the Japanese equivalent a similar title...the "Quickest hot hatch ever"

Have not seen one on the road here yet, I think MA have a limited supply, though TV Ads are many.

Japan8

I don't like WHEELS nor Edmunds. Edumunds has come up with a review that was the opposite of all popular car mags and the performance data is always weak. WHEELS opinions are not so bad, but their performance data is as bad as edmunds... the utter pits! You average enthusiasts can get better numbers than these so called professionals!

I'm waiting on the big "first drive" and comparison reviews from MT, RT, CD, and Automobile. After that I think I'll have a better feel for the car.

BlueSky

Yeah the C&D road tests are always the best.

Can someone explain to me how the MS3 is slower to 60 than an RX-8?

Spin9k

Maybe it's slower to 60mph, but beyond that I think it's no contest.
That's the important dif.

BlueSky

Yeah I read that it pulls really hard in 3rd, 4th and 5th. Our 8's only pull hard in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. So I guess it all makes sense.

djbentle

I've read another issue with the 0-60 times is the gearing requires a shift to 3rd just before hitting 60. This would shave a significant amount off the 0-60 if it wasn't required, but of course it doesn't effect how fast the the car feels in normal driving, so it shouldn't matter much.

Just look at the 80-120km/h times. One of those reviews said it's faster than an M5 in that range. In the same gear! Clearly it's incredibly fast in the meat of the power band. I'm not worried about how fast it's going to be. I just want to see if they nailed the handling, and limited torque steer, the intrusiveness of the electronics and any of the power funkiness that plagued the MS6 at first.

BlueSky

What I like about this car is the fact that Mazda just went *****-out and made a monster at such an affordable price.

I have a theory on the low 0-60 times, I'm betting that they purposely limited the power in the first few gears just so the 3 wouldn't surpass the 8's numbers. We all know that 0-60 times are golden to the general public despite the fact that the 3 is quicker than the 8 where it counts.

Japan8

Uh no. Did you even read any of the reviews? The MS3 has a complex traction control system... LSD, Traction/stability control, heavy duty drive shafts and the ECU cuts power in 1st and 2nd gear to reduce torque steer. but 3rd gear on has full power... so take a guess why the car hauls *** from a roll?

If only Mazda had AWD on this ride at near the current weight... full power from 1st gear... it'd be a serious beast.

BlueSky

Yes I did read the reviews. It was just a theory. I know that the 8 does not sell well, but it is the flagship of Mazda's lineup and having a hot hatch be faster than it would just not look right. Besides, there are a few production cars with FWD and higher power than the MS3. Aren't there highpower civics out there than put out more power to the front wheels and post quick quarter mile times?

I'm betting alot of the MS3 owners will have their ECU reflashed to have that extra power in the 1st and 2nd gear.

AWD would be okay, I guess, but it would add weight to the car. I'm waiting for someone to make a RWD hatch.

FishoftheWeek

[QUOTE=I'm waiting for someone to make a RWD hatch.[/QUOTE]


BMW 1 series, take it or leave it....

BlueSky

Bleh. Leave it for sure.

Japan8

^ Agreed. I kinda liked it at first, but after reading JDM reviews where the R32 spanked the MSport 1 Series with the I-6... I'd take the R32 instead.

BlueSky

^^But I'd rather skip the R32 and wait for the R36. That's, of course, if I had the money for either.

gotdilbert

Its FWD.

BlueEyes

so?

gotdilbert

I dont like it :P

Japan8

Truthfully? There is no R36. THis is from VW Vortex. THey can't get it and especially the DSG transmission to fit in the MkV chassis. Maybe it'll show up in the MkVI platform, but there is no word on that yet... completely just speculation. VW would be better off and more likely to drop in the S3 engine than the bigger V6... better gas mileage, lighter weight, nearly the same power output and probably similar cost.

BlueSky

Why not have a proper 6-speed manual with the R36?

Japan8

Still doesn't fit according to sources on VW Vortex.

torres

The new MazdaSpeed model, the 2007 MazdaSpeed3 MPS/Axela is due for launch this fall, with it's first appearance made at the NY International Auto Show.

Here is a new exclusive review on Mazda's new car, with details on its performance, design and features. Also available is of course a nice high-res photo gallery





"MazdaSpeed3 is the 4th vehicle in the MazdaSpeed brand, following the 2003 and 2003.5 MazdaSpeed Protegé, 2004 and 2005 Mazda MX-5 and 2006 MazdaSpeed6. This will be the first time that two MazdaSpeed branded vehicles will be sold..."

Here's the whole article: http://www.topspeed.com/cars/mazda/m...3-ar12714.html

BlueSky

Yeah there is a thread all about MS3 reviews. Just looked through the review and its really not much of a road test if you ask me.

Japan8

one of the admins should merge this with the other thread.