Ike

Surprised no one has mentioned it yet, but the Mazdaspeed 6 finished 5th in the AWD car comparo in the March road and track.

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

I had a 40 minute test drive of the Mazdaspeed6 today.

my opinion?

buy the Subaru Legacy GT instead

this coming from a huge Mazda fan

I am sad

PoorCollegeKid

Did you read the comparison? If you look at their speed vs. time chart, it looks like the Mazda starts pulling boost at the top of third gear. The car is one of the quickest in the test to 60, but is by far the slowest in the test above 70mph. It actually looks like the engine pulls all boost, because it accelerates far, far slower than even the 3700lb, 204 hp, automatic, AWD IS250. Looks like 91 octane does not agree with that engine, especially if you get on the gas for more than a few seconds. It's really too bad

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

there's a bunch of problems with that car other than just losing boost that made it suck

BlueEyes

Do tell...

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

ok, since you asked for it, here's a little review I wrote on another forum, is it OK for a fellow mazda owner to completely pan another mazda car? i hope so

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ok, here goes my quick review of my testdrive of the Mazdaspeed6, i'm just gonna list the pro's and con's that i noticed during my 40 minute test drive. Tested at Rosenthal Arlington Mazda in Arlington, VA, which, btw, I probably won't be buying any car from them based on this test driving experience with them... gotta treat your customer better, if he says he has to go, you let him go and don't hold him up...

anyway, to the review:

Pros:
- the engine: sweet engine when in boost, which is around 3000rpm and pulls hard all the way up to 6000rpm.

- gas pedal/brake pedals: positioning has been revised so that when the brake is pressed down, it is at the same level as the gas pedal, an improvement over stock 6's that allow for easy heel toe downshifts.

- AWD: I was able to have AWD kick in on several occassions, both when launching from a stop and when pushing it hard through a highway onramp. It works well enough to remove most of the understeer that a stock FWD 6 would've had under those conditions.

Cons:
- the engine: though it pulls hard when in boost, but right at 6000rpm, all of a sudden it's as if it lost boost and the engine just bogs down. The tachometer has the redline at 6500rpm, this annoyed me quite a bit during the test drive

- suspension tuning: you call THIS sporty? my STOCK RX-8's suspension feels stiffer and handles WAY better than this SUPPOSEDLY 'Mazdaspeed' car. I thought I was driving a regular 6 again... not impressed at all.

- size and weight: it's BIG and it's HEAVY, you can tell as soon as the car starts moving, that sense of nimbleness that I get with the 8, or even my old Protege, simply doesn't exist, I guess even Mazda can't defy simple physics.

- shifter: I guess I'm spoiled by the RX-8's shifter, this thing had long throws and felt notchy. The 8's shifter isn't exactly snick-snick by any measure, but the difference was great enough that I actually felt it became an obstacle in the whole driving experience. One thing I should note, the *best* shifters I've ever driven in a stock production car are the Miata/MX-5 shifters, and the MSP. Gotta try one o' them S2k shifters one of these days

these are the main negative points I've noticed during this test drive, there are other things that I noticed that I wasn't comfortable with, that are more due to design differences between the 8 and the MS6 (ie seat positioning, speedo/tach placement, steering wheel positioning, shifter positioning, etc) than actual functional differences, so I didn't list them as 'negatives'

Conclusion: Mazda got off to a great start in establishing the Mazdaspeed brand by releasing the Mazdaspeed Protege and the Mazdaspeed Miata, but then they released this dud of a car. I don't know how this car deserves the Mazdaspeed label. That 'fun to drive' feeling that I felt when test driving those previous 2 Mazdaspeed cars is completely missing from this one. Save your money and get a Subaru Legacy GT (which I also drove and had a MUCH MORE POSITIVE driving experience), and be on your merry way

THE END

Ike

Yeah, but they sure didn't make as big of a deal out of it as I would have. It's not pulling boost, it's pulling timing, which means there's most likely some pretty bad knock happening. The car trapped 86mph and ran a sub 15 1/4 mile, that's a pretty obvious issue. Yep another turbo car from Mazda that is a disaster, how the hell do they not take care of this stuff before a car goes into production. Nice work with the interwarmer and the fubared ECU settings Mazda, you'd think the countless flashes on some of their other cars would teach them a lesson. To top it all off they couldn't even get the handling right, something Mazda is usually pretty damn good at.

Design1stCode2nd

Looks like Edmunds likes it:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...7/pageId=68929

VikingDJ

I think it's easy to tag cars like the EVO and STi as being this because of how they look both interior and exterior wise. I see a lady all the time with a silver Impreza RS, and from purely a looks standpoint without considering the time ane energy for what's inside and how it performs, it's exactly like my car, only I paid about 14 grand more for nicer rims, fancy interior add ons, a big wing and a big hood scoop. When just looking at a car without knowing or caring what's inside, it really is justified. I love cars like the EVO and STi for what they are, but like all cars they have flaws. You have to buy one of these cars based on their performance , and their every day ability as daily drivers, and nothing else. The econobox tag comes from it's looks. Inside, it is brilliantly done up, and should be appreciated for that. However, if you look at a car for more then how it performs, then the econobox tag is hard to argue, because it is afterall an Impreza and Lancer. Just because people who prefer looks, refinement, overall feel, and luxury while wanting this kind of performance will shy away from an STi or EVO, and criticize it, doesn't make it wrong. These type of cars are a great compromise from what many want out of a car. If you want the best of all worlds, you are looking in the wrong direction, because these cars don't have the total package. They are still wonderful purpose built cars that with the right people can be as good as any other car in their minds, as long as the things it lacks mean nothing to them, just as with people who prefer looks, refinement and luxury over performance.

With that said, I truly wish they would take the wonderful performance of these cars, and work on the looks both interior and exterior wise. I guess that would mean a much too expensive car, taking away from the rally purpose. That's really too bad. I'd give just about anything for an the interals of an STI with the exterior, interior, and chassis of the RX8. I'm going back to dreamland now.

rotarygod

I have yet to drive an MS6 but I have diven a regular 6. I wasn't impressed with it at all. I even drove back in the Rev It Up competiton like many others did where you get to drive it hard. It is heavy, has lots of bodyroll, and understeers like it's on ice. Even the upgraded suspension cars in the Rev It Up event were the same way. If the upgrade suspensions from those cars is indicitive of the MS6 setup, I probably won't like it. It did need more tire under it. I need to go drive an MS6 but I have no doubt it'll feel like someone slapped a turbo and a suspension on a regular heavy 6. Oh wait, that's what they did and that apparently still doesn't make it a performance car. Where have I seen that done beore? I'll go check one out for verification.

Ike

It may be easy for people to tag them as econoboxes with some mods, but it's still ignorant. You also seem to ingore the fact that there are a lot of people out there that love the looks of the STI and Evo.

Part of what makes the STI and Evo such wonderful cars is their raw nature. Put a bunch of plush interior features in, weigh them down with a bunch of sound deadening and a bunch more coats of paint and clearcoat, and you have lost the essence of these cars. Go ahead and dream of a dumbed down version of the STI and Evo filled with fluff, I'll take them just the way they are.

Renesis_8

I remember reading on the Mazda6club board recently, that Mazda discovered the problem with the loss of power thing, they believe it is caused by a way too sensitive knock sensor. A fix is on the way they say.
________
How To Roll A Joint

Design1stCode2nd

Coats of paint? Seriously how much does a coat of paint weigh? Mitsubishi is already changing to something that is more visually appealing to general performance car buyer in the X. So we’ll see how successful they are at it. The lancer bodywork isn’t going to be any heavier (excluding the aluminum bits of course) than any other small car. If you took the IX and wrapped it in body of an A4 and gave it the interior of a new civic or 2006 STI they would sell more.

Yes it’s not a bread an butter car yes it was geared for the enthusiast and is easy to mod but if you could sell more units with small changes why wouldn’t you. Not like Mitsu can’t use the money and positive press it would generate.

Back to the MS6, on paper it seems like a nice compromise if you want a sporting car that doesn’t look like a rally car but has 80% of what you might want. Maybe they will make some tweaks next year.

VikingDJ

OK. Lets assume that the EVO and STI were just like the regular lancer and the impreza RS in performance. How would these cars do on a looks scale compared to other sports cars? If you think I am wrong, and you think that the car will be love for it's looks regardless of it's performance as much as it is now, speak up, and state your argument. This is like the average looking girl that's wild in bed, and has a great personality. She will look better to the person who is with her, and falls in love with her, as is the case with you. Love is also blind, and with that comes partiality. It's ignorant to tag any car negatively, let alone calling the STI and EVO econoboxes. No one is gonna try and change who you are and what you prefer, but to call a hot looking luxury sports car with the ability of the STI a dumbed down version, is about as ignorant as it gets. These are your favorite types of cars. There is nothing wrong with that. You shouldn't get offended when people call them hopped up econoboxes. I didn't get offended when people ripped on the rx8 for it's lack of performance, and all show no go. I know how to ignore the negative, and respect that people are just different. We are who we are, so don't hate, APPRECIATE, even if you don't agree.

Ike

We might as well argue which color is better, red or blue. Looks are a purely subjective thing, I don't care if 99 people out of 100 say red looks better than blue, it doesn't make that 1 person that thinks blue looks better wrong.

Yes, the average person is going to think cars like the RX-8 and 350Z look better than the STI and Evo. On the other hand, I think the average person has awful taste. Most people out there that think Olive Garden and Chilis have great food, Yellow Tail, Turning Leaf, and Bolla make great wines, and clothes from the Gap and Target look great. They're all crap if you ask me, but again, just my opinion.

Don't misconstrue my argument into me saying that the STI and Evo can't look better, they certainly can. There are certainly cars in the STI and Evo range that I think are better looking, but that's purely my opinion. You have to ask yourself at what cost though. All these things you talk about add money, the interior and luxury you talk about adds weight, and would put the STI and Evo prices out of reach for most people, and that's just not what these cars are about.

Also, find me a Luxury Sports car with the abilities of the STI and Evo, because I can't find one anywhere near the price. Evo magazine just did a comparo of the Evo to the RS4 and 911 Carrera 4, the Evo was faster around the track than both, more fun to drive by most accounts, and won the comparo. Of course money is a factor in that comparison, but I love the fact that I can afford a car with this kind of performance, to me that makes it beautiful. Function over form is an aspect of design, and a damn good one if you ask me.

In addition, my love for Subarus started when I was very young. The car I wanted when I was in my early teens was an XT6. I also loved the looks for the 90s Imprezas, I didn't buy one because of the performance. When I found out the WRX was coming to the US I had to have one, and it wasn't just because of the performance. I'm not alone in that thinking.

Again, you don't seem to realize why the STI and Evo are based on the Lancer and Impreza, it's due to homologation rally rules. It wasn't just because Subaru and Mitsubishi wanted to cut some corners.

Fact is, if you want a car for under 75k, you're going to have to make compromises somewhere. In fact I don't think there's a car in the world that doesn't have compromises.

Tirminyl

^^I agree.

Japan8

Ike... compromises are not only fine, but expected. But that doesn't HAVE to affect styling. I know you like the looks of the Imprezza (I've personally thought all of the are ugly and the new face is ok... always prefered the Legacy) and you don't mind the Evo (seeing as how you own one). Looks are subjective, but alot of people... both average consumers and enthusiasts don't find their looks appealing. Improving the looks and interior design (not necessarily materials) doesn't cost anymore than putting out ugly designs with bad ergonomics. I think that this is what people are really asking for... and Mitsubishi is trying to answer with the Evo X. If they make very closer to the exterior of the show car, they'll have done it for me.

Japan8

BTW, I did like the Evo VII when it first came out. Now... between age and the changes to the front by Evo IX... I don't care much for it. Maybe it was a bit dated design from the beginning...

Mikelikes2drive

I like the way the STi looks. evo i can pass on, but i wouldnt call it ugly. I think the 350z is pretty ugly :/

Ike's basically got u owned on this arguement...

VikingDJ

Well said. Ike doesn't appear to see and/or acknowledge his own partiality and ignorance, yet reveals others. Likely he just trumps raw performance over styling, and doesn't need the car to be sexy like the RX8. Nothing wrong with that. Fact is, we are all ignorant, it's just a question of whether we want to admit it or not. Someone out there will always like the looks of cars like STI and EVO, but many times they have extreme partiality, as the case is with Ike. It's just what he prefers. No doubt that if you line up an RX8, EVO, and an STI, and do a nationwide vote which car is nicer looking inside and out, it's gonna be an utter landslide for the RX8. It really doesn't mean anything. What matters is what YOU like. Nonetheless, there is serious room for improvement. The nicer as well. The cars are starting to catch up to their price as far as styling, but still have a long way to go. Not saying that's right, but it's an opinion I am sure a majority of people agree with, as well as the companies themselves, which is why they make the changes.


With that said I wanna ask Ike a question since he's so on top of Subaru. I have heard a rumor that a limited Edition STI is coming soon to US? It is rumored to have blue leather heated seating, power moonroof, and a wrx spoiler in place of the sti wing. amongst other creature comforts. The wing part I don't buy, but man if that is true, I might have to run to dealer for a trade. To me that's what ruins this car, and it's also what has people I know and meet asking "why did you get it with that ugly wing. It's hard to explain that I had no choice. People on the sti forum of course are bashing this because it adds weight and takes away the rawness of the STI. I say, bring it on. This is what I want out of a daily driver. A moonroof, leather heated seats and a nicer looking spoiler is just what the doctor ordered for me. Just add the navigation, and SMG option, and I'm all in.

VikingDJ

Looks like Ike has a fanboi. If you would have called the EVO ugly, you'd be off the fan club mailing list.

Design1stCode2nd

I'll be curious as to what Subaru does for their 2008 model, supposed to be a complete redesign.

In the past I have always gone for a good looking car, I'm a web designer so it's in my nature. There are basic forms that most (as in more than 50%) of people will find pleasing. For instance the G35 Coupe, wonderful lines and even after a few years it is still very fresh. The Audi TT is moving sculpture, the Solstice is just damn pretty and the RX8 sexy and functional. The appearance of something affects how it is perceived and how it sells. If it didn't no one in design would have a job.

I never looked at an Evo or STI until I saw the mitsu sportback concept and then the concept X last year. Then I found out how great the performance of these cars are and that you have 4 doors and AWD and I was like "Wow, why have I never heard of these before?".

With just a little attention paid to design and style, hell even aerodynamics and a splash of marketing and these two vehicles would sell as many as any 350z or G35c.

Had I known a couple of years ago I could have gotten a sportscar, all weather driving and packed in two child seats I would have never looked at a SUV.

It would still be nice if Mazda could tweak the MS6 a bit and improve the performance and handling. It's a fairly attractive car but just doesn't compete with the EVO or STI.

Ike

I have no partiality, and I have no allegiance. Brand loyalty doesn't carry much weight with me. Subaru treated me very well and I don't have a single complaint, but the Evo is a better performance car than the STI so I jumped ship. If you think the STI would be better with heated seats, an automatic tranny, navigation, leather, trade your car in. Thus far, most of the changes made have been in orderc to one up the other company in the performance area, not to add some creature comforts. You bought the wrong car, you don't get it, and you probably never will. You're probably rolling around with all seasons bithing about the interior noise and lack of luxury, go buy yourself a VW and be done with it.

saturn

I agree with this except for the 75k part. I think every car has "compromises" even more expensive ones. I have yet to find the perfect car -- just different cars that have certain things I like. But if you tossed all the things I like together in one car I would probably hate it. It's just not possible to find it all in one place because our own varied tastes sometimes are in conflict with one another. Humans are obsessed with variety.

Anywho, I'd have to agree with the whole comment about the Evo/STi not just being Lancer's/Imprezza's with mods thrown on. I think people say "you can make any car fast" like it's a lego set for ages 3-5. It's just not that simple and cost is always a factor.

There are very few cars I'm amazed with: Corvette Z06, RX-8, and Evo. The fact that they do what they do in such a unique way at the price they do it blows my mind. The fancy Europeans can look down their nose at the unrefinement of the Z06, the Civic tuners can mock the RX-8's low straight ahead speed, and the 350Z crowd can laugh at the Evo's "econobox" styling -- at least I won't be unoriginal.

When you derive enjoyment from a car just by driving it and not by comparing it to other cars, then you have something special.

Ike

I think you'll find that we're on the same wavelength that there is no perfect car, at least I haven't found it yet. If I ever do I'm pretty damn sure I won't be able to afford it

The fact remains that I love my car, just as most RX-8 owners love their car. However I'm fully aware of the shortcomings of my car, it rides rough, I have no cruise control, my interior isn't pretty, and some gold bimbo girl isn't going to go ooo and ahhh over the styling. Fine with me, I can't get girls no matter what my car looks like, and I honestly don't need to since I'm very happy with the girl I'm with.

I love my car despite its shortcomings, and when it comes down to it that's all that matters. Same goes for RX-8 drivers, if I'm not satisfied with the performance of the RX-8, it doesn't matter as long as you are. It's when you make a car out to be something that it's not that i take notice and have a problem. If some guy on the Evo forums talks about how luxurious his Evo is I'll call him on it, just like I'll call out someone on here making the RX-8 out to be something it's not.