Originally Posted by RIWWP
(Post 4546006)
Have you seen their financial problems over the past few years? Between the auto industry crash and then the tsunami that crippled Japan's economy for a while, they were losing billions a year. This is the first year they are back making profits since, and it takes time to develop a sports car.
I'm not making this up, they have dealt with severe financial problems, and they have to continue recovering. |
lets face it...the GTR was not much of a gamble. bad example thunderberk
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I did not want to hear this Terrible New's…
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Originally Posted by ASH8
(Post 4546117)
It is the CEO who puts his neck on the line, not a past CEO now Chairman Yamanouchi...it is the CEO's call.
I'm not saying that this is what will happen, only that it may happen. Andrea. |
There was a great article in forbes earlier this year that touched on this after the debacle between gates and ballmer. I'll take a pic when I get home.
- Owners delegate authority to boards. - Chairs or lead directors run boards. (This is the only responsibility of a non-executive chair. Executive chairs are employees of the companies by definition and take more active roles in supporting the CEO’s leadership of the company). - CEOs run companies. - COOs, CFOs, CHROs and others help CEOs run core operating, strategic and organizational processes. - People lean in or out depending on their confidence in the ability of the people they have chosen to deal with. |
honestly, the CEO is in the right frame of mind as far as the numbers go. With sustainable profits a pure enthusiast's car like the Rx7 can be made. Well, as long as the company can still post quarterly profits during production of the enthusiast's model.
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Originally Posted by thunderberk
(Post 4546330)
Every car manufacturer is near that risk and Mazda isn't the only one as you remember Nissan made Gtr 35 on that risk and they had an economic and financial problems they have if you are going to wacth mega factories their ceo who decided to produce their new gtr 35 got that risk and produced it.
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Originally Posted by thunderberk
(Post 4546330)
Every car manufacturer is near that risk and Mazda isn't the only one as you remember Nissan made Gtr 35 on that risk and they had an economic and financial problems they have if you are going to wacth mega factories their ceo who decided to produce their new gtr 35 got that risk and produced it.
Nissan can "take the risk", Mazda ? ... after losing money for so many years, they simply CAN NOT afford anymore fuck-ups ... they turn profit mostly because of the recent Yen dropped, unless they can keep making good profits for the next 2-3 years, I just don't see a Rotary coming in 2017. |
Has anyone tell me please NC MX-5 sale numbers ? Because NC MX-5 still sale but 1 years ago RX-8 production was end and they are working on new ND MX-5 if they don't have money how can they are working on new rwd platform with Alfa ?
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Sales numbers were posted earlier in the thread. The ND has been in production for quite a long time. It was originally supposed to be out last year. The financial difficulties pushed that back quite a few years. MX-5 sales are UP though. It's also using an engine that is already in production and is selling like hot cakes, design can go into the chassis, rather than trying to get the engine to work.
Not the same thing at all. And they are not "working on it with Alfa". Mazda is designing it, and had already designed most of it when Alpha thought: "We need another roadster, how about we see if we can buy the MX-5 off Mazda?" It's a pure cash flow, Alpha has very limited say in the MX-5 design, and it's going to be assembled in Hiroshima. It's a slam dunk for Mazda, since it basically means that they have already sold the first 10,000+ cars. Again, not the same thing. |
Originally Posted by RIWWP
(Post 4546412)
Sales numbers were posted earlier in the thread. The ND has been in production for quite a long time. It was originally supposed to be out last year. The financial difficulties pushed that back quite a few years. MX-5 sales are UP though. It's also using an engine that is already in production and is selling like hot cakes, design can go into the chassis, rather than trying to get the engine to work.
Not the same thing at all. And they are not "working on it with Alfa". Mazda is designing it, and had already designed most of it when Alpha thought: "We need another roadster, how about we see if we can buy the MX-5 off Mazda?" It's a pure cash flow, Alpha has very limited say in the MX-5 design, and it's going to be assembled in Hiroshima. It's a slam dunk for Mazda, since it basically means that they have already sold the first 10,000+ cars. Again, not the same thing. Just a question: for revive a rotary engine is not possible to use it mated with a serial hybrid (and a multi speed dual clutch tranny) and place it into hi-end models of "normal" mazda (example: top spec 6, a future cx9 etc..) instead a v6 piston? and use it "stand alone" in an mx5 or a coupè version (rx-7?-5?) not economically suistainable? |
Originally Posted by thunderberk
(Post 4546407)
Has anyone tell me please NC MX-5 sale numbers ? Because NC MX-5 still sale but 1 years ago RX-8 production was end and they are working on new ND MX-5 if they don't have money how can they are working on new rwd platform with Alfa ?
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Matt, I expect that your example IS what is going to happen. They have been exploring use of the rotary as part of a hybrid drivetrain for a long time, and they are continuing that. I wouldn't be shocked at all to hear that they have a tiny version of the 16x being tested for just this purpose, maybe 800cc total?
It's obviously not what we want specifically, but it keeps the development and the technology progression alive until it reaches the point that they can upsize it back to a primary powerplant in a sports car again. I'd also lay money that if Mazda releases a vehicle (even something like a hybrid bus) that uses a rotary as a generator, there are going to be people ripping the motor out to stick in a light chassis to go have fun with. :) |
Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8
(Post 4546226)
The BRZ/FRS is 10 years newer and is still a yawn factory, how anyone thinks it is a successor just makes no sense to me. And why anyone who buys a Sports Car and gives a shit about gas mileage is beyond me as well.
At this price point, in this economy, a LOT of people are sensitive to fuel costs- or being forced to top up about twice a week, which is one thing I never really liked. As a 2+2 in the mid $20's, I think the BRZ aims at the same audience, IMHO. When I look at one, I'm reminded of the RX-8. |
The 0-60 times are almost identical depending on what source you use and the RX-8 is a lot faster in the 1/4 mile (1+ second is huge) and has a higher top speed. And mid 20's? For an FRS maybe but not a BRZ. My buddy ordered one, it was almost 30k.
Lost to a 2006 Auto RX-8, :lol: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19227 |
The BRZ/FRS is not faster... Stock WHP numbers are around 155-160 for the BRZ/FRS (Confirmed by me in person when they came out, Cobb Tuning in Plano dyno'd both BRZ/FRS back to back and they put down 155-160WHP). Stock RX-8's put down roughly 180-190WHP. After driving both my 8 and both of my friends FRS's, I can confirm the RX8 is faster
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No doubt the dynamics of the BRZ/FRS are good, but it's not better in any way (okay maybe gas mileage if you care about that) than the RX-8 that is a 10+ year old platform.
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I actually think a sport hybrid setup is ideal, better gas mileage and torque are exactly what the Rx needs, and due to the compact size of the motor it is perfect.
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Yeah, there are a lot of different ways that hybrid based technology could make an entirely viable rotary sports car again, without killing the "sports car" aspect to it. It's only a matter of time before every car produced has some level of hybrid tech in it, and people will always be finding ways to leverage that to go faster.
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Originally Posted by WTBRotary!
(Post 4546425)
The BRZ/FRS is not faster... Stock WHP numbers are around 155-160 for the BRZ/FRS (Confirmed by me in person when they came out, Cobb Tuning in Plano dyno'd both BRZ/FRS back to back and they put down 155-160WHP). Stock RX-8's put down roughly 180-190WHP. After driving both my 8 and both of my friends FRS's, I can confirm the RX8 is faster
The numbers don't lie- in terms of 0-60 and 1/4 mile times, both cars are clustered around the same figures. Everyone gets somewhat different results, but you're looking at two cars that essentially go 0-60 in the low 6s (at best) and 1/4 mile times in the low 15s, also at best. Doesn't matter how they dyno in two different cars. |
Probably getting sidetracked here... I believe there are a few other threads discussing the comparisons between the RX-8 and FR-S/BRZ
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IMO, the rotary is probably dead, except perhaps as a range-extender or small-production halo car. Even as a halo car, far more people, assuming they've even heard of a rotary, associate it with bad things. The 1% who can afford such things, are far more interested in the social status and expensive car brings, than the car itself. And nothing from Mazda will ever have that kind of status power.
Even among those who can afford any kind of new car, interest in sports cars is minimal, and falling. Why? They are getting old, traffic sucks, etc. Driving for fun is a dying concept. For a range-extender, the rotary does have some promise. Optimized for that duty, it could be small, light, and more efficient than what's in my Volt, for example. OTOH, Volt production to date totals 50,000 cars. Even with tax breaks, rebates and such, it's 50% more expensive than the Cruze. A purpose-built rotary for that application will add to the already too-high purchase price of PHEVs. (Of which, the Volt and the upcoming BMW i3 are the only present examples in production). BTW, it costs me $0.18/mile to run my RX-8 vs $0.02/mile for the Volt on electricity. |
Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8
(Post 4546427)
No doubt the dynamics of the BRZ/FRS are good, but it's not better in any way (okay maybe gas mileage if you care about that) than the RX-8 that is a 10+ year old platform.
That is the point of the word "successor." To me, the car fills the same slot in terms of the performance envelope/Price/seating. |
Actually, it doesn't seem like the financial situation is that bad for Mazda, as their net income for the current fiscal year is better than expected.
Looking here, since 2009, they lost a total of about 240 billions of Yen in net income, last year they gained back 34 billions, and the revised forecast for the net income of the current year is plus 100 billions. It doesn't look bad at all. Especially if you consider that their best selling models, the 3 and the 2, haven't been renewed yet (the 3 is not yet on sale). I fully expect them to recoup the whole loss of these years by march 2015. And their stock value, after reaching a minimum of slightly more than 1$ per share in late 2012, is back up to over 4.5$ per share. Another year like the second half of 2013 would bring that to around 6$. The pre-crisis price was around 7$ And what about the r&d money that was already spent on the rotary in these years? As far as we know, the engine may be ready or almost ready for production as we speak (type?). After all they said back in 2010 that the 16x got better mileage than the then current (i.e. non Skyactiv) 2.0 engine (source). That was in 2010. So they must have spent considerable r&d money on the rotary just as the crisis was at its worst. It would make no sense to drop it now. In the end, yes I still think that there will be a new rotary (and I'm not talking hybrid or the like, I mean a purely rotary powered car) and the 2017 date still seems very likely to me. Call me optimist if you want :p:. Andrea. |
Originally Posted by RIWWP
(Post 4546418)
Matt, I expect that your example IS what is going to happen. They have been exploring use of the rotary as part of a hybrid drivetrain for a long time, and they are continuing that. I wouldn't be shocked at all to hear that they have a tiny version of the 16x being tested for just this purpose, maybe 800cc total?
It's obviously not what we want specifically, but it keeps the development and the technology progression alive until it reaches the point that they can upsize it back to a primary powerplant in a sports car again. I'd also lay money that if Mazda releases a vehicle (even something like a hybrid bus) that uses a rotary as a generator, there are going to be people ripping the motor out to stick in a light chassis to go have fun with. :) i'm still a little bit disappointed about this Tokyo MS....no one concept (even not a production ready one) for displaying something like that.... we must wait for some year, i suppose.... but the statement of the new CEO is not a good signal :sad: |
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