Vandal10

After much analyzing of the two vehicles I have decided that my next car will be either one or the next.

Both cars are priced in a similar range (at least in Canada), and I need a car with four seats and preferable four doors, thus these two sports cars are ideal. The fully loaded model of the Lexus IS300 is $46 000 Cdn while the Mazda is looking at $41 000. I would like to drive the car all year around, including during the harsh Canadian winters.

Both the Lexus and the RX8 offer supreme and identical safety features which is perfect for the climate. I will prefer to purchase an automatic, thus the benefit that the Lexus offers is that it is a 5 speed techtronic shifter, while the RX 8 offers only a 4 speed.

For horsepower, the Lexus is pushing 215, while the RX8 automatic is at 207. The Lexus also functions as a sports luxury vehicle while the RX8 is a pure sports (possibly sports/family) vehicle.

I would like any advice, or opinions.

Thanks in advance.

Skyline Maniac

Lexus:

(+)
Name brand
Service
Reliability
Quality
I-6 Engine
Aftermarket Support
Practicality
Styling (some prefers the IS?)
Price (heavy discounts)
More class

(-)
Only 5 speed manual
Ricy tail lamps
Aged design
Replacement in 1 year
Not as flashy anymore.

toe

IS pros:

engine is more torqey. has a very useable powerband. (not everyone revs to 4k in stop and go traffic)
IS is more upscale. service from dealer will reflect this.
build quality is better.
probably better gas mileage.
engine is tried and true. (can handle boost, and kill m3s with said boost)
*probably* safer, so insurance will probably be cheaper.
car has been out for awhile, possible to get car near invoice, and deal. (rx8 ur looking msrp unless u have hookups)
lexus build quality is second to none.

if u were thinking about a 6-spd rx8 i would take the rx8. but for the auto... the is will be good for you.

im not trolling (this is my first post,). i love the rx8 and hopefully i will get one soon enough. but in this case.... i would definitely choose the lexus.

one thing is for sure tho. both cars are sure to suck in snow. so... if u have snow, (CN), think long and hard before getting either of these cars.

again. if it sounds like im trolling im sorry. but for the auto trim the is300 just has more going for it.

mazdaexe

Hi Vandal10

I actually have both the RX8 and IS300 now.
My thoughts are the same as the others, if ur going to get the auto RX8, get a IS300 (or wait for the upcoming replacement)

The tiptronic is one of the best out there. The IS engine is smooth, not sure is it as smooth as rotary, but due to its inline 6, its smooth and willing to rev too. The IS has lot more space, better material and is definately more comfortable than the RX8.
Compared to an auto RX8, I think the IS will be better in driving too. The IS actually handles and breaks very good too.

Comparing the two, I would say auto IS will be better than auto 8. Check out www.is300.net

I personally really like the IS, I really wish I have financed it instead of leasing, cuz i like the car and know it will last long (lexus). I bought the RX8 also, cuz I want a real sports car too.

How about other options too? A4? 330? C Class?

MrWigggles

IMO the ONLY reason to buy an IS300 is if you plan to do a turbo option.

Toyomoto in Florida has been doing 2JZ-GE mods for years and they can get 350++ RWHP very reliably.

The engine and the car was built (or I should say overbuilt) for boost. It isn't a good value unless that is your intention with the vehicle.

-Mr. Wigggles

Vandal10

Hey,

Thanks for all the opinions. I am now leaning towards the Lexus IS 300; however, does anyone know when Lexus will be bringing out a new design, is it for this 2004 year? Should I wait for the 2004 since I cannot get the car to early-mid September anyways.

As for alternate options I am willingly to explore any different options, however, I want to stay within the same price range, as the Lexus IS 300 is at the top of that range. I have checked out some other nice four seater sports cars such as the G35 Infiniti Coupe, which looks real nice inside and out. I want to stay within the sports/luxury type class, and stay away from full fledged sedans.

Any further elaborations would be helpful.

Thanks again.

RobDickinson

Sry , not driven either (yet) but I heard realy bad things about the IS300 handling.

Section 8

I wouldn't seriously look at either of these cars if you need to drive them in the snow. You'd be better off looking at a WRX or something AWD or at least FWD, but definately NOT a RWD sports car.

Just my .02

vudoodoodoo

You should get a FWD or AWD car to drive around in the winter. Something like a WRX. It's sporty, fast, 4 door, and has AWD.
If you really want a RWD car, get a cheap beater for the winters.
Driving RWD in the winter aint fun. Trust me.

jtimbck2

A coworker has a Lexus IS300 5-speed. It doesn't impress me in looks -- it has dull styling like all Lexus (IMHO). Don't know about it performance-wise, I haven't driven it.

pelucidor

Don't say what you 'heard', say what you have experienced. The IS300 has better handling than the E46 BMW, about the best for any sport sedan under US$40k. I test drove the BMW 325i, 328i, 330i, A4 3.0, Acura CL, Acura TL, Lincoln LS V8, and others to compare with the IS300 when it first came out. All the car magazines agree: C&D, R&T, Motor Trend etc say the IS300 is the best handling sports sedan there is, but it is weak in some other areas.

I ended up with an IS300 5AT which I bought over 3 years ago (the 2nd in the country I believe) that now has 45k miles on it. Not one issue in those hard driven miles. At 22k miles Lexus bought me $800 worth of new tires (just as mine died) because some people had complained about getting bubbles in the Goodyear GSDs when hitting potholes (I did not complain but benefitted anyway). Lexus service and reliability is incomparable. The car is a solid performer, and subjectively fast - the engine is smooth makes a nice snarl, and top end performance is very good (60-120mph). The e-shift to me is a bit of a gimmick as the full-auto mode is perfect - redlines in every gear, down shifts just when you want it etc. Downsides are poor fuel consumption (about 20mpg - same as RX-8 probably) and tight space in the back (same as RX-8 but with bigger trunk).

I am replacing it with an RX-8 6MT. If you want an automatic vehicle then the IS300 is IMO a better choice, especially as it sells for invoice and not MSRP and so will be very close to (perhaps cheaper than) the RX-8 4AT - it will certainly be much cheaper to lease. Performance will be quicker, but other things will be better with the RX-8 (handling, styling - personal opinion of course). And living in Canada I am sure you already know about the benefits of snow tires on any vehicle (FWD, AWD or RWD). IS300 owners in snowy climates say it is fine on snow tires - the 5AT has a SNOW mode that limits revs and starts in 2nd gear etc.

Nobody has heard anything about a new IS - will probably be a 2005 or later model. Note that in the USA Lexus sells about 20k IS300s a year on average so the Mazda will one day become as common if the 30k sales targets are reached - don't know about Canada.

However if you were considering a manual transmission car - well there is a reason I am getting the RX-8...

Smoker

Hi Vandal10,
I'm also from Canada, and I'm also debating between these two cars. I'm leaning towards the 8 because last time I checked, I get more bang for the buck with 8. However, since you know nobody will sell us the RX-8 for less then MSRP, all you have to do is to go to a Lexus dealer and see how low of a price you can get from them.

If what the guys saying here are true, (that we have a new IS300 for next year) maybe you might be able to get a good deal out of it. I think if you can ****** it up at around $40K, then you got yourself a pretty good deal.

For me the 8 gives me a couple of things that the IS300 doesn't have which are important to me: its a real sports car and it is a Rotary Engine. I have never owned a Sport Cars or a Rotary powered car before so I guess I'll have to go with the 8. Even though, the IS300 is almost gurantee to be rock solid reliable and have better fuel consumption, this time I will have to go with my love instead of practical sense.
:p :D

Vandal10

I still have about a month or so before I would like to receive the car so I am still exploring other options. I would like any other opinions for sports/luxury type cars but please remain with a top cost somewhere around $46 000 fully loaded.

Possible alternatives that I have found and that are intriguing are:

- Acura RSX Premium Type (Type S doesn't offer the auto, unfortunately)
- Toyota Celica TRD-GTS (currently waiting for the 2004 specs)
- Mazda RX8 (obviously; if this came with a five speed shiftable automatic, I would most likely get it)

I am open to any suggestions, and am willingly to research all alternatives.

Any experiences, opinions, or advice is welcome.

Thanks in advance.

edboc

I have yet to drive a RX-8, but I have driven a IS300, manual at a dealership. I don't have any good things to say about the car. The interior is complete garbage for a Lexus. I couldn't believe how cheap the interior is, and how ugly the gauges are. I didn't push the car hard on the corners, because the salesman was with me, but the car wasn't that fast on a straighaway, the shifts were notchy (maybe b/c the car wasn't broken in), and I didn't like the ugly chrome shift ****. The interior is pretty tight. I would like a little more room in the backseats. I don't like the ricey taillights, and it's overpriced for what it is. On top of that, the salesman was arrogant, and called me about 10 times to followup. I never returned any of his calls, but he kept bugging me with voicemails with "....You came in a few months ago to look at an IS300...It's stilll a great day to buy a Lexus...We have great financing options..." I think he gave up on me after 6 months.
I recommend a G35 coupe instead of an IS300. It's all a matter of opinion anyways. If you're really interested in any of these cars, you're best of test driving them to see what you like. That's probably better than reading any opinions on any message board or magazine.

blizz81

Vandal - do they sell the Acura TSX up in Canadialand? That would seem to fit better than the RSX, has an auto, and starts at the same price the 8 does here in the US. FWD, but its probably one of the best handling/comfortable FWD sporty sedans out there.

Wing

Yes, take the TSX for a drive, it is A LOT cheaper, it's $34,800 MSRP, $12k less than the IS!

IIIseries

I was going to stay out of this one, because Im an ex-IS owner, and I frankly hate them now, but here goes.....

I had an IS for all of 4 months, and I have to say it was a very UNDER-whelming car. No power (mine was the auto, not that the 5 speed is any faster), SUV-like gas mileage (which really sucks, since it doesnt have the power to back up the thirst), cramped interior, tacky/gimmicky gauge cluster, not very fun to drive....I could go on.

People love to praise its handling, but I dont see what's so great about it. On paper it may look like it has the 3 series beat, but in real world driving, 330 owners have nothing to fear from it. The IS never made me smile or laugh out loud from having fun like the 330 does. That said, I seriously doubt it has anything on the RX8 either, though I havent driven the auto 8, so who knows.

Do yourself a favor and get the 8. Its fresh, its innovative, and it doesnt look like a ricer's wet dream.

Superfan

I've liked the look of the IS300 ever since it came out. Thing is most people I know think the car is a Civic. I drove both the e-shift and 5 speed at an auto-x type event Lexus had a while back and I was impressed with the handling but it could be a little faster. Add a turbo and that problem is solved. Another alternative to a the IS300 would be an Audi A4 Quattro. It looks good and is AWD so it's good to go for the winter months. If you're set on the IS wait for the next incarnation.

Vandal10

I have been searching around in the alternatives and am about 80% convinced that I will purchase a 2003 RSX Premium Edition (Type S comes only in manual, I'll ask the dealer, but it won't help) For the money put into the car, I have seen that you get way more in comparison to a Celica, while sacrificing a few styling points, the interior design and comfort factor prevails.

Rendezvous

i am a current proud owner of an is300
few months back, i was deciding between going turbo or purchasing the rx-8 (both will cost me equally somewhere around 6 - 7k) but now i ve already make my decision

some information for the is300

manual is300 is dynoed at an average of 184hp 189tq, auto 173hp, 178tq

pros
-handling is one of the best of its class, you can check car & driver, or for more reliable result here
-for a mere 6k (my choice) you can have an instant m3 killer (340hp, 270rwhp) choices range from plp, pfs, toyomoto, srt, and many others.
-lexus build, toyota reliability: unmatchable
-engine is basically bullet proof, could stand up to 300rwhp without any internal modifications
-SUPERB stock stereo
-BEST dealer services

cons
-adequate speed, although it is still faster than tsx, 325i, 9.3 vector, t5, and even perhaps, the rx-8 (as it was dynoed only at 173.8 6 speed)
-interior is not onpar with other lexus, it is sporty, but some materials look kind of cheap
-redesign to be due on 2004 (2005 model)
-fishy tail when going through corners (i personally dislike it, but drifters love it, it can be fixed with some sways for a mere $300)
-soft paint, easialy chipped, especially the front bumper, and the hood.

i am not very familiar with the rx-8, but some of the obvious facts that i know are

-handling will definetly be better than the is300
-there are some reliability issue (mazda = ford)
-car is looking bloody sexy
-i prefer the interior of the rx-8 over the is300 (its more futuristic)
-it will most probably be slow on normal driving conditions due to its lower tq and proven weak hp (6 speed - 173.8rwhp) unless you are willing to rev it up above 6rpms everyday
-both is300 and rx-8 will suck at snow
-and if you are having a big family/circle of friends, rx-8 may not be the right choice (low torque + more passengers = BAD)

my .02 cents

Skyline Maniac

Rendezvous , I thought Toyomoto would easily push the 2JZ to 400+hp? I agree with the dealership experience and built quality/reliability of Lexus. After owning a Mazda, those items are no top priorities on my list. You can't go wrong with a Lexus. I am anxious to see what Toyota will do to the next gen Altezza/IS series. As far as interior, it has been improved since 2002, they upgraded the leather and dash material on the IS. IMO, the IS interior is still much much better than the RX.

The paint chip will happen on ALL NEW CARS due to environmental regulation. It's not an IS300 exclusive mishap. I recommended clear bra to the forum before but no one seems to care. Guess we'll have to wait till those rock chip posts to show up before people get smart.

Lastly, I agree completely regarding the 4 people + low torque. Mazda tried to advertise the RX-8 as a true 4 seater sport car. With 4 passengers, the RX-8 will likely get passed by SUVs on the highway. The heavier the load, the more significant torque becomes. (and also when you climb hills)

pelucidor

I forgot to mention that the stock IS300 stereo is very good, likely to be much better than the BOSE upgrade for the RX-8.

A few more points in favour of the RX-8:
The interior looks nicer than the IS300. RX-8 interior quality is better than my old 2001 model, but the 2002 was dramatically improved so this might go to the Lexus.

The chronograph-look gauges of the IS300 will not hold up to the beautiful 3D optitronics in the RX-8.

Most importantly some people are suggesting that the RX-8 can barely move with 4 on board and this is nonsense. I repeat absolute nonsense. My test drive (I complained about a lack of push in the back compared to a G35 or EVO) was with 3 people on board: me at 5'9" and 170lbs, salesguy at 5'9" and 250lbs and sales apprentice at 5'11" and 160lbs behind me. That's a lot of weight and we were easily the fastest car on the road AND I KEPT REVS BELOW 5000rpm almost all that time - imagine if I went near the 9000rpm red-line on a car with more than 5 miles on the odometer. I only exceeded 5000 rpm on the way back to the dealership along I-10 to hear the engine at 7000 rpm. I expect the RX-8 4AT to do almost as well below 5000rpm.

Rendezvous

the turbo upgrade i was mentioning (in the range for 6k) was for stage 1 (average runs of 340hp) if your opting for the stage 2, which usually cost around 9k, the average runs are usually somewhere around 430hp

is300.net has existed since 1999, and i believe the issue of paint chips were acknowledge since is300's debut in 2001, but like what you have mentioned, people tends to get stubborn, until it was too late

Rendezvous

rx-8 interior styling will DEFINETLY be better than is300's (altezza has been using the same model since 1995, its getting old) but the interior quality between the 2 cars will remain to be seen

for what it matters, weight will always be the bane of speed. a person can shed up to 1 - 2 seconds in a quarter mile by reducing a car's weight.

you may simply felt as being the fastest due to the fact that you were eager to test the car to its limit (despite restrictions given) but does other cars around you ran with an equal zest?

rx-8 6 speed is dynoed at 173hp, there was a drivetrain loss of nearly 35% (very bad for manual) despite the arguments of being dynoed at the low mileages (600 m) it will be not be possible for the rx-8 to suddenly gain more than 10hp simply by breaking in the car (i will say 180 - 185 hp once the miles settle down) but you guys forget to mention anything about the torque...

if 250hp is dynoed at 173hp, ever imagine how the torque will push in the real number ? (lets not even think about the auto) let just say, with 3 or more people in the car, racing an rx-8 is not a very good options

imo, you guys should band together an sue mazda out of their *** if the next given dynos proof to lies somewhere less than 180hp margin

RX-8 Zoomster

Enough of this dyno garbage. Either the dyno was: 1) done wrong, or had a malfunction. 2) Car was not broken in yet 3) Problems with port opening.

I SERIOUSLY doubt there is a 35% loss in hp with this car.