Drumm09

First of all, there has been real info on Mazda getting hybrid related engines recently. These are front engine rwd specific. I figured that they may be considering something for usage with their next rotary car but now the rumors are increasing.

http://www.7tune.com/mazda-roadster-...hybrid-rotary/

I personally don't think Mazda will ever put a rotary in an MX5 because it would not be an MX5, instead a different animal all together.

But it is not so far off because the rx-7 used to be offered with a roaster version back in the 80's?

7tune is pretty legit.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

So many threads on this topic. (RX-7 / MX-5 / 16X, future development...)



But "putting a rotary in the MX-5" is entirely different than "putting a rotary in a MX-5 chassis with a new skin on it, labeled as an RX-7"


Just a thought.




But that being said, Hybrid is what the rotary needs, it is where it can shine. Both as a power plant for a series hybrid for ultra efficiency FWD commuter cars (Frasier-Nash Namir, Audi's concept), as well as supplemental "cruise" for sports cars.

For example, if the highest gear in the sports car did not have the same output shaft to the driveshaft to the rear wheels, but instead to a small electrical generator, then electric motor, back to the drivetrain (with accompanying ECU differences), it would offer instant series hybrid efficiency under any cruise condition, at any speed (since only a tiny amount of power is actually needed to cruise and maintain speed), simply shift into highest gear and into series hybrid...without sacrificing any of the petroleum burning performance pleasure of the lower gears.

ultrataco

Autoblog: Rumormill: 2012 Mazda MX-5 to get rotary engine option

These rumors are about a more fuel efficient MX-5, not the next RX or a "Super-Miata". Using a small rotary would reduce weight (more mpg). The hybrid equipment would add some weight, but overall it might still be less than an i4 turbo.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Both articles are rumor at this point, though it is consistently annoying how people get stuck in their ruts. "Hybrid = MPG! Hybrid = weight! Rotary = Terrible!"



The Namir has weight of under 2,000 pounds, top speed of 190mph+, 0-60 in 3.x seconds, and gets 97mpg.


And it's powered by a tiny turbo'ed rotary as an electrical generator for 4 electric motors, 2 front, 2 rear.

ultrataco

I don't know if that was aimed at me, but a hybrid rotary would have better mpg than a non-hybrid rotary, and a rotary weighs less than a rotary + hybrid equipment. I don't know how either of those compare to a small non-hybrid 4cyl turbo.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

No, aimed at the comments in the article mostly. I really gotta stop reading them.


A piston engine can't begin to compete with a rotary for constant RPM long duration running, which is what is needed in a generator. Majority of the rotary's drawbacks come from having to provide power, cooling, lubrication, and breathing over a wide range of RPM. Pistons also lose some efficiency from this as well, but not nearly as much as rotaries. Set up the cooling and lubrication for a constant speed rotary, tack on a little turbo designed specifically for that RPM point, use correct gearing to get exactly the torque and speed output needed to the alternator, and you have an engine that will last forever.

MattMPS

+1.

there is a lot of interest for rotary engine mated to serial hybrid (and parallels too).

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Parallels is where you get into the excess weight from batteries. Series doesn't need batteries, and if the electrical motor is used strictly for cruising (at any speed), it doesn't even have to be big, since cars don't use hardly any power under cruise conditions. It would even work for 'cruising' at 40, 30, 20, 10mph, since the cruise power needed only goes up with speed for constant-speed conditions (wind resistance)

Hence why I think the top gear should re-direct to a series system. Best cruise efficiency without losing acceleration and responsive performance for the lower gears.

ODDDOOD

iTrader: (3)

Jalopnik apparently picked up this story as well...

http://jalopnik.com/5565253/next+gen...-rotary-hybrid

I will be happy when all rumors are over. But I will be sad if it ends up in a f'n mx-5...only because then I won't buy it as I won't be able to fit in it.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

That very well may be the biggest reason to offer an RX-9

zoom44

ok im just gonna nip this in the bud as quick as I can here. I posted this on AUtoblog too. I cant believe autoblog printed this.

This article from 7tune is really a horrible whisper down the ,lane mish mosh of real information turned into pure fiction. If the writeres at 7 tune believe they have it accurate then they are fools. If they did it on purpose well- so much for "journalism"


Mazda has already stated that the next MX-5 will be getting smaller and lighter. We also know that the chassis used for that car will underpin the next rotary 2 door if its green lighted. So thats where the part about a "rotary in the next mx-5" comes from. Not IN the next MX-5 but using the CHASSIS for the next RX-x.

Mazda has already shown variations of hybrid rotaries over the years. Recently they got a patent for offset hub motors in RWD sports car. The purpose fo the offset is better suspension packaging. http://www.autoblog.com/2010/05/02/m...lectric-motor/

So that's where the hybrid part of 7 tunes rumor comes from- the chassis used in the patent documents is the sports car chassis- particularly as used in the current MX-5.

Plus when the Sky-G engines were announced there was also a Sky Rotary that they have since been mum about. We have heard from a reliable source that they are testing versions of the 16x capable of running gasoline AND diesel.

So you put together past things like the hybrid rotary dual fuel MAzda5 , with a RX based on the "MX-5" chassis , the new poatent using the current MX-5 chassis and diesel "rumors" and you get

the Next MX-5 will come with a rotary in a hybrid version



thats not to say that idea of Mazda testing a next gen diesel burning rotary hybrid sports car mule on an MX-5 chassis is too crazy to be true. just trying to put the 7tune/autoblog reporting in perspective.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

But Zoom...theorycrafting heartache is fun for some people, and you gotta ruin it!


It is getting quite crazy out there. I don't know that there are any other manufacturers that are generating so much theory, rumor, and love/hate with those rumors that Mazda is right now. And they aren't even trying to it seems.

ASH8

Best Car..

RotarioX8

Well the rumors will go for a while now... check this out from Fast Lane Daily

http://www.vodcars.com/fastlanedaily...o-saab-6-21-10

neit_jnf

French and Italian articles about rotary miata.... french one dubs the "rotary engine Renesis 16X of 1.2L or 1.3L" the "T12A or Sky-G" lol
http://www.e-roadster.fr/

http://blogautomobile.fr/mazda-mx5-2...r-wankel-68781

http://www.autoblog.it/post/27685/ma...otativo-wankel

http://www.allaguida.it/articolo/maz...-wankel/29255/

MattMPS

new draws from jap magazines (one is reprise by autocar.co.uk).......there are talking about 1,5 liters PISTONS engine....2012 as deadline.....

robrecht

Most, if not all, series hybrids rely very heavily on a battery.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Agreed.

But "a" battery, or at least a very few, vs parallel that use far more trying to extend the battery only range before having to grudgingly start up the combustion engine.

DocBeech

iTrader: (1)

I don't worry about fuel mileage, never have cared. I worry about E10 becoming E15 and ruining all cars in general. I don't mind getting 16 or 18mpg, or even 12 sometimes, I mind that I have to put up with ethanol in my gas which ruins engines, and fuel components. Burns hotter than gas so it destroys cats to.

robrecht

Are you saying that parallel hybrids rely on larger batteries than series hybrids. I think it's the other way around.