Japan8

Actually at least in Japan the new G35 sedan is due in the fall. I'd figure that you'll get it either then or in the spring in the US. It didn't take long after the release of the Fuga in Japan for the M35 to come out. The G35 coupe is rumored for spring 2007. As someone mentioned they are going to be announced in an upcoming Autoshow...

Search for threads on the G35 in "General Automotive" for pics and such.

Ike

Here's a teaser, you can find more with a quick search.

JeRKy 8 Owner

Great looking car. It's a shame though that we're going to see one at every other street by next summer.

RX8-79

It run circles around that sad, go-kart engined legacy, and real cars like the A4, 325i, and IS, so if thats ill-handling, so be it.

He meant get the A4, since only the "AWD" in that sentence applies to that other thing.

Efini, the A4 or 325 would be the best bet. Audi just dropped its free maintenance, but BMW still has it. That, plus these two are the only ones that are even remotely fun-to-drive. I'd call the 250 a joke, but it's not funny, so that doesn't work. The g35 is over and soon to be forgotten. The TL is an Accord in better clothing. Nuff said.

efini_8

i agree on the TL statement, but i disagree with the undertone of the IS250...

from my experience, i absolutely DETEST the IS300 before this model was released, but i'm in love with the 250/350 out right now. I can't necessarily afford the 350 and i was looking into an automatic anyway (yes, i know... shhhhhhhhh -- considering i was one of the select running the turbo on the 8).

When i sat in the IS250, i was "wow'd" by all their features and how comfortable as ***-hugging the seats actually were.

The 325i, now looking at the 325xi is a GORGEOUS car as well, and i am VERY persuaded now b/c of all your helpful advice (i.e. 50/50 weight, stronger engine, etc), but am still hesitant as i love the look and feel for the IS.

I've heard in the past the BMW had A LOT of electrical problems... in fact, my parents were DISCOURAGED from buying a used X5 4.4i b/c they had sooo many electrical problems... does anyone want to add to that?

As for now, there isn't much persuasion into the A4... any input as to why?

Thanks again for all your help, ALL your help couldn't be better appreciated!

James

GULAMAN

The A4 is a very good car and you won't really go wrong w/ one, BUT:

-base version is FWD. from an everyday standpoint, it's OK, but not quite the classic configuration of the RWD sedans.
-Choose the AWD version and you're talking high-$30s range for typically optioned examples. that's approx. $4K above a comparable RWD 325, for which you get superior bad-weather traction, but (IMO) inferior dry weather performance...due partly to the weight penalty of the Quattro awd system (btw, I'm referring to the 200 hp 2.0T engine on the A4; the V6 engine is costlier still)

the interior comfort/style on the A4s is very nice, arguably nicer than the 325. Note that for $500 or so, you can chip the Audi/VW 2.0T engine and get around 245 hp and upwards of *300* lb-ft of torque....no joke. so if you're interested in a stylish commuter and more interested in straightline performance, a chipped FWD A4 would be a good choice.

Personally, I would still choose the 325 for its overall deference to the guy behind the wheel. and no, I haven't heard of any electrical problems w/ the E90 platform; it's been universally hailed (again) as the standard-bearer in this class.

RX8-79

Detest is where I stand on toyota in general, but I have even more contempt for the new is since its a bigger ripoff than the 1st gen. If the thing was priced like the TSX which it performs like, then it wouldnt be so bad. But 30k plus for a 200 hp engine that clicks annoyingly at idle and feels like the avg 4 banger? Nah.

When I sat in one, the disappointment just continued to swell. Hate the tiny gauges, the mismatched colors, the generic layout, the cramped rear seat.

BMW's electrical problems and so-called unreliability in general is greatly exaggerated. If they were that bad, they wouldnt rise on jd powers every year, and certainly wouldnt be right behind acura this year. Then again, acura is slipping (C&D's longterm RL had EIGHT trips to the dealer).

The A4 is like a well-kept secret. It's a great car, just underappreciated. The new turbo is one of the best fours Ive driven and the interior is near-perfect. It's going to be a beast if they slip their new 300hp V6 in it next year.

Detrich

due to the exchange rates and price increases, the bmw's are several grand more than what they used to cost. however, japanese luxury cars have remained about the same prices. (in fact, my parents just recently picked up a loaded-to-the-teeth Acura TL for $35k out the door.)

that said, if money were no issue, and performance is what you want, i'd definitely go for a bmw, though i really think they botched the look of the tail lights on the new 3. uuuugly. however, if looks are all u care about, then the IS really makes my heart thump. i especially like that metallic green that they have. the overall exterior is sleek, sharp, and just incredibly sexy- even for a <cough> japanese car.

efini_8

Detrich.. that's just the exterior boost that i needed to hear...

RX8-79, you served up some good advice as well. I haven't heard anything about the clicks at idle and when i sat in it, i loved every little feature about it. i guess it all deals with tastes and preferences of individual consumers.

As for the bmw being problematic, you guys are probably right. they have been on the car and driver top 10 list for quite some time now and they certainly didn't get there harnessing electrical problems.

as noted before, i'm not a HUGE fan on performance, but handling pluses would be great. I'm looking heavily into the 325xi now that the awd 3series is noticeably cheaper than the awd is. not to mention, the is250awd has a sluggish 0-60 time of 8.3 seconds (rwd is 7.9)

Keep the advice coming guys, CRITICISMS against the 325XI and IS250 are WELL ENCOURAGED as i am trying to take account all the negatives of the car now. As for the A4, i think it's out of the question just b/c of the price BOOST when you go quattro and add a few options.

PoorCollegeKid

From what I've heard, the MS6 is a sweet handling car for a FWD-biased sedan, but you don't give the other cars enough credit. According to R&T, the better balanced Legacy will run through a slalom more than 2mph faster than the MS6 (67.2 vs 64.9) and the A4 is faster still (69.2). The MS6 does equal the Audi on the skidpad, performing 0.02g better than the Legacy, but the BMW 325xi is 0.01g better than the Mazda and Audi are, and that's the heavier, less nimble AWD version. The Legacy has a 200lb advantage over the MS6 and a slight weight distribution advantage (57:43 vs 59:41), both of which are quite difficult to overcome if the '6 is limited to the same 215 width tires that the Legacy is equipped with. Just something to think about...

GULAMAN

well now you're looking at the 325xi?? why?? if you truly want AWD, then my recommendation goes back to the A4 Quattro. their Torsen-based awd system is better than BMW's, IMO.
How much do you need AWD? get a lot of snow where you live? note that in addition to extra cost, adding the AWD option onto any car will add weight and drivetrain drag, as noted in your IS250 accel. times. But if it's AWD you decide you want, remember that Audi practically wrote the book on these systems and they know how to do it right.

This would be my order of preference, price-independent, if you offered me any of these cars to take home and drive:

325>A4 Quattro>IS250>325xi>A4 FWD>Acura TL>IS250 AWD

Ike

You're so misguided I won't even bother responding.

RX8-79

Cause only the 3 and A4 deserve any credit.

Yeah, ok. Well, the MS6 dusted both in handling in the Speed Mag comparo. It dusted the specBS mightily (shorter braking, higher G's, faster slalom) when M/T compared the two and dusted it yet again in Edmunds. It says something when a lighter, "better-balanced" car pretty much consistently gets its *** handed to it by the heavier one running on the same size tires. Just something to think about....

RX8-79

You're so misguided I wouldn't even bother CPR as you croaked slowly.

And saying you're not bothering to respond is in fact responding. Course, any time you don't respond is a good thing for us all.

Detrich

my '99 bmw 323i is going on its 8th year (i bought it new in '98), and it's still a barrel of fun to drive everyday to work. i usually shift around 4000 and 4500 rpms and it still gets about 21mpg too. definitely, absolutely a reliable, practical, and fun car to own. i would definitely buy another 3 series in a heartbeat if i was in the market to replacing my baby...

as far as maintenance costs go- honestly, this car has not been that expensive to own. in fact, it has only cost me slightly more than my old '91 honda civic, before i sold it, believe it or not. the key is to find a reputable and reliable neighborhood garage to do the regular maintenance and to STOP going to the dealer after the free service period is over. the dealer is a rip.

as far as electrical problems go- honestly, i've had very FEW issues. in the first year, i had 1 or 2 minor things- like the cabin light not turning off. but, after the dealer re-booted my computer, all those things went away and never came back. if anything, the only problem i've had is having to have the lens on my aging 6-cd changer serviced, as those generally wear out- on all cars- after about 6+ years of use. oh, and the battery in my remote key had to be replaced a few months ago... <lol> $10 per key at the dealer. (my cheapest visit there ever.)

the first and only time i've changed the battery in this car was just a few months ago. SEVEN years baby if you count from 98-2005. and, that is specifically why i bought another original BMW replacement battery. it only costs slightly more than the bargain Sears batteries, and they last forever.

all-in-all, the 3 series has been a joy to own. and that is why i decided NOT to trade it in when i bought my RX-8.

PoorCollegeKid

My point wasn't that the MS6 handled poorly, but simply that you can't say it runs circles around cars that are actually fairly close to it in handling ability. It seems to depend on the track setup more than anything else. This slalom setup (700ft, 100ft cone spacing) simply favored the dimensions and dynamics of the Legacy and Audi more than it favored the MS6 or 325xi, while the other tests seem to favor the MS6 more, hence its much improved results. The latter two cars had the top two scores on the skidpad, but for whatever reason turned poor times in the slalom (the BMW having an especially poor showing).

Does this mean that the MS6 and 325xi handle poorly? No. Does this mean that the Legacy handles far better than the 325xi or MS6, as the results of this test would lead you to believe? Of course not; there are other tests on different courses with different results. You can't look at a couple of tests and then say that Car A clearly hands Car B its *** when there are other tests that show the opposite is true. For all we know the other tests used the same cone spacing, which would make them all their results roughly the same and would explain why R&T returned different results with their slalom tests. WIthout more information on the handling tests you've quoted, there's no way that anyone could say definitively that the MS6 handles better than the Legacy GT Spec B or vice versa. That's the point my first post was supposed to make.

Why did you put "better balanced" in quotes? If you go by the numbers, the Legacy GT does have better weight distribution than the Mazdaspeed6 does...

Ike

You're quite the angry little man, did Subaru molest you as a child?

QBallz

I hate BMW's. With that said I would get the Lexus, I really like the looks of the new IS.

RX8-79

I can say whatever I want. The MS6 outhandles them both despite a weight disadvantage, so that's all that matters.

Going by the numbers, I can. Going by response, I can. Going by its better body control and its less body roll, I can. Simple as that.

Oh NOW you pay attention to numbers. Nice. I dont doubt it has better distribution, Im just laughing at the fact that it does nothing for its handling vs. the 6.

RX8-79

Nope, but sounds like a logical explanation why you are the way you are.

PoorCollegeKid

I can say the sky is always black; doesn't make it true even if it is dark a good portion of the time Have you not read my last couple of posts? The MS6 did not do so well under the conditions of the R&T test. This isn't to say that it can't win some tests, just that if it was as superior to the other cars as you make it out to be ("running circles around" the competition) it would be winninig nearly all the tests, or at least placing close to the top every time. The fact is, it doesn't do this.

I was paying attention to the numbers the whole time in both of my posts. In fact, if you actually go back and read them, you'll see that I bring up nothing but numbers to back up my statements because feel can often be deceiving. For example, if you have the new MT you could read their 911 vs. * article. They say that, despite the Vantage's inferior handling feel and 300-400lbs more weight when compared to the other cars, it actually managed to slip through the slalom faster than the 911CS and Z06. How could this happen? It's because, in their words, "...the cone spacing of our slalom favored the wheelbase and natural frequency of the Aston..." Are you willing to say that the Aston Martin runs circles around the 911CS and Z06 in the same way that you're ready to say that the MS6 runs circles around its competition?

As I mentioned before, the setup of the R&T slalom course probably handicapped the MS6 and 325xi in their test (and/or helped some of the other cars along). This just goes to show the strengths and weaknesses of each car when it comes to certain types of handling dynamics. Based on this review, I think that proclaiming the MS6 to be far and away the best handler of any car in its class based on sparsely detailed results (unless you know the slalom course setup for those reviews and know that they are not equivalent courses) and "feel" may be a little bit over the edge.

Speaking of numbers, the A4 2.0T Quattro is actually 100lbs heavier than the MS6, so does that make the A4 the truly superior machine from a handling perspective?

Just calm down a little, I'm not Ike and I'm not trying to pick an e-fight with you over this, I just thought that the Road and Track results might be worth looking at in this comparison. If you really don't want to see data that run contrary to your beliefs, then feel free to ignore my posts.

DARKMAZ8

Get anything but a subaru cause I heard that blind chimps work quality control there. Toss that in with that upside down engine and you got big probs IMHO!!!

PoorCollegeKid

Anyway, back on track...

Personally, I would go with the 325 simply because I prefer the greater feedback of the BMW to the Lexus. The BMW is also lighter and quicker, and can most likely be had without having to order one and waiting forever for it to come in (as was mentioned before about the IS250). The Lexus seems to be more focused on getting you from point A to point B comfortably, reliably, and efficiently, while the BMW is a bit more focused on enjoying the trip from A to B, even if it means sacrificing a bit of numb comfort, steering- and feedback- wise. Test drive both cars and see what you think (though I think you should also test an A4 before you make your final decision; it's supposed to be quite the car). Good luck and keep us posted.

efini_8

Thanks everyone...
No need to be hostile, we're all gr8 (sorry if it wasn't funny) rx8 owneres here.
As for the MS6, i liked it when it first came out, but i'm not in the mindset to get another mazda... too many problems with my 8.

When i saw the IS250 in the dealer showroom, and one parked, it looked great. HOWEVER, when i saw one driving around (in black) today, i was kind of deterred from going along w/ the lexus... I think you guys did a great job persuading me.

I am personally leaning more toward the 325 now. It looks like a bigger/more comfortable car.
Now, i have a few questions...

Does the 325 come w/ an engine start/stop button?
Does the 325 come equipped w/ Xenon headlights, or is that an option?
Lastly, if the sticker price is approx $33K, how much should i expect to pay for it?

I bought my rx8 2 months after it was introduced into the market... every dealer had a mark-up of approximately $1000, but i ended up walking away with it for $1900 below MSRP...
I went to a "auto-mall" type of dealership where they have MANY brands of cars, and i think they allocate their models by buying immediately off of the freight cargo ship... that's why costs are so low...

Any rants and raves of the 3-series are welcome!

RX8-79

Honestly, like most 'know-it-all' children, you're a little long-winded, so no, I just skim.

Right, right, cause the winner of these little comparos is ALways the one with the best numbers. Look kid, from my standpoint and the standpoint of ALL objective data in every test other than R&T's that youre holding onto like a damn dog with a juicy bone, it DOES outhandle the other two. NUFF SAID.

Who really gives a **** what you feel is over the edge. Have you driven any of them, or do you sit at your little laptop perusing the net for info, or skimming mags at Barnes and Nobles while daydreaming? I mean, do theyeven let broke college punks test drive these types of cars these days?

You have that option too. I know it's important for your type to feel right, but it's not going to happen with me since I dont let others make up my mind for me.