Spin9k

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9

Found this really tantalizing size comparison thread on ft86club where the upcoming car is positioned against some of its potential competition. The results are very surprising to me, and esp. this latest pic posted by Aki directly comparing the new car to the MX-5.



I had never envisioned that this new platform was so small and so close in size to an MX-5! I'd always pictured it as considerably bigger, more like a Genesis Coupe or any number of 'normal size' sports/sporty cars.

Given its diminutive size, the weight may be reasonable too given how weight is the hot button it is today. So I'm thinking a virtual MX-5 hardtop size car now, perhaps weighing even less than an MX-5, with more HP and a longer wheelbase adding some high speed stability.

... Hummmmmm these Subarus and Scions to-be "could" be verly interesting.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Very slightly heavier, very slightly more powerful. The Toyota might be a real contender.
I'm not holding my breath, though.
The sports car market is totally dead, so I'm not sure what Toyota is trying to do by making an up-scale Scion.

kvndoom

I doubt the FT86 will even survive for 5 years. It'll be yet another affordable sports car that wasn't properly positioned or marketed. The Miata is forever.

Spin9k

Odds are you are right, but we can hope. The good news is if Toyota/Subaru really gets their ZoomZoom on, shining their marketing machine on the small sports cars segment - can't but generate renewed demand that everyone, including any competition can share in. Win win.

g8ter

iTrader: (1)

im pretty curious to see what it will officially be.

blackenedwings

Its all going to boil down to the marketing, and initial cost. If the car comes out $30k+ I doubt it will sell very well so close to the price for the WRX which is turbocharged/AWD and selling well already. For ~$25k it might have a decent following as the market for lightweight/rwd cars is pretty empty. Scion has a lot of interest in the "young car owners" market who want something sporty and cool looking, so a RWD slightly more expensive tC has a decent chance of selling well if advertised properly... which is something Scion does extremely well.

serothis

I'm skeptical at best. I have a feeling that the car won't live up to the hype/frenzy. They've been parading this car around for so long that unless it comes out with some impressive numbers, it'll probably flop.

for comparison

'11 mx-5 #'s from mazda pdf

167hp
2480lbs
$23,110 (base msrp)
and an established nameplate.

I don't know if the ft-86/fr-s/brz can carve out it's spot in the market.

If there's anything to be learned from the 8, it's that godlike handling is hard to articulate to the numbers-drunk public.

Assuming a $25k price tag, if it's not lighter then the mx-5 (which I doubt it will be) it's going to have to be faster. That means probably in the 200+ hp range. At which point it'll start to be compared to mustangs, 370z, genesis coupe, etc. The sports car market is an already very saturated market. It needs something that makes it stand out from the crowd.

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

I'll have to admit the pics I've seen of the FT-86 are quite impressive thus far. However, when reviewing the 'Official specs', I read the following:

"Front strut, double wishbone rear, 225/40/19 tires all around"

They had me considering one until I read that. Don't plan to own another sports car with a McStrut front suspension again...

monchie

I must say...this is interesting. Comparing both is like comparing a veteran to a newly private in the service. The MX5 will be here for a long time, and for myself, the only car that is really almost equal to the MX5 is the Honda S2000.

MattMPS

seeing the picture at top of thread i think that mx-5 have a shorter WB, this means often "more agility". the main advantage of ft86 is the boxer and its lower centre of gravity.
the driver's *** is more "connected" to rear wheels into Mx-5 IMHO

looking for the future ND....

ASH8

So many so called MX-5 contenders have all come and gone...

Yes, some look even prettier than the MX-5 (slightly)..

They all claim to be an MX-5 beater, but they don't survive and they are not an MX-5 beater in the end...

Competition is good, but, others just don't get it like Mazda does.

BTW, they "say" the ND MX-5 will be smaller, probably will, but IMO you are only talking mm or eighths of inches.

US market (largest for the MX-5) won't stand for a smaller MX-5...they all want it larger, and for taller 6'2'' owners.

ASH8

Yeah, it looks like Mazda are going back to a simple McPherson Strut (front) Suspension in all their next gen cars...probably also the ND as it is cheaper to make...

As for Pricing??....you all forget Japanese car manufacturers are being slaughtered by their strong Yen, I will be very surprised if the Top Line SubToy will be under $30K.

I can't see how they can make it for around $24K, without compromises...or cheap parts.

8 Maniac

iTrader: (1)

The one thing that might help it a lot is the styling. If it is priced right, it can probably pull a lot of sales from younger age groups for the styling alone. A lot of people that aren't into cars see the miata as a chick's car or a "gay" car. If the numbers are in the right range, I think it could be a real contender, but it will require some good marketing as well.

ASH8

Yeah, and a lot of people (outside of the US) like 67% don't think the MX-5 is a 'chicks' car...unless you think 67% of Men outside of the US also like same sex...lol

I guess if it had a 4.0 litre engine it would be AWESOME....lame.

As for "styling" well that is in the eye of the beholder...I like the character of all model MX-5's with it's smooth curved lines, dimensions has so much to do with what works with styling.

Current regulations (safety) with high front noses and hoods, large rear ends, high door belt lines, small door glasses definitely looks better in larger cars, they carry that size/design way better...the smaller they get the weirder they look.

Take the Mazda Shinari...looks fantastic because it is a long and wide 4 door, shrink it down to a Mazda 3 or Mazda 6 size???...debatable??.

Frankly, I don't like the look of any of the 2011 on-wards car generations.

8 Maniac

iTrader: (1)

True... I was mostly talking from the US perspective. I definitely respect the MX-5, but I've unsuccessfully tried to argue the point that it's a good performance car to some friends. There's definitely a strong perception of cars like the miata here.

I get the feeling this car has the potential to be successful where previous cars have failed, but we just have to wait and see the final specs. After that, I think it will strongly depend on marketing.

ASH8

I've got you...but the MX-5 has never been about performance, just like the Austin Healeys, MG's, Midgets, Spitfire, dare I say even the POS Triumph TR7 (my Dealership used to sell them new once, thank god that did not last long)...

Definitely the new ToySub has potential...we will see, if and when.

MattMPS

a great difference between the two model is open top for Mazda ,wich make a difference into cluster of potential buyers....

ASH8

Your right there Matt, after all the MX-5 is a Convertible Roadster..

MattMPS

gay customer cluster will still buy mx-5, IMHO

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Your right, but not for the reason you think. There are people that want a tin top.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Didn't the main G+L magazine pick the new Camero as their top car? Miata wasn't even in the top 10.

(though I probably don't help the image when I take my pug for a ride in mine )

Spin9k

Everyone raises good points about a car that has no specs and no performance stats yet. Like the girl you haven't met yet... she "could" be anything from a hot chicklet to a dead fish! We just don’t' know.

One very encouraging thing about the car is a transcript of a chat with the head designer, Tetsuya Tada. I defy anyone to read this story...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...hief-engineer/

start to finish and not shed a bunch of car enthusiast's tears reading what he thinks about sports car design .... before getting half way through.

If there was ever a litmus test for sports car designers, this guy has the theology down pat. Of course, we’ve heard words like his before - but this isn't from Mazda, although it very well could have been! No supercar fantasy designer, he must have fun holding his ground against the big money Toyota corporate types. Hopefully he's got the right stuff, at the opportune time, at the right company, to get this vision into metal and selling like hotcakes.

MattMPS

For sure...Mazda Roadster coupè has this purpose. who want an open top will not consider AE86.

EightCostsMoney

iTrader: (2)

I have been waiting to see the Subaru version of the FT-86. However, learning that it will not be all wheel drive and all spy shots show it without a scoop make me sad. The more I see the more I am disappointed. I’ll just buy a R3 instead.

I had the Scion tC and it was a real let down. Toyota does not equal sports car anymore. MX-5 FTW!

Bigbacon

iTrader: (4)

Toyota should have just gone back to the mid engine sports cars.