Design1stCode2nd

Next time I may be looking for a car will be in 2010-2011 assuming nothing happens to the 8 before then. Right now the top of the list is the Evo X with DSG, Redesigned STI, and Camaro. This will give them all 3 or so years to work out the bugs.

purecoda

there. fixed it for you jeremy.

dillsrotary

!!!!! its saturn's arch nemesis !!!!!!!

Rhawb

I could never drive a car with a DSG - I buy cars for fun rather than pure numbers. I don't really care if a car's faster around a track, if I don't enjoy driving it, what's the point? To me, shifting is a big part of the enjoyment I get from driving so I'm going to stick with it for as long as is feasable. I might look into something more boring if I manage to have a WAY long commute to work at some point in my life, but otherwise I'm sticking with a traditional manual.

Ike

DSG isn't faster around the track. It shifts faster and is smoother but it's still not good enough to beat out a good driver in the same car equipped with a MT.

saturn

Looks like it's another troll from the Evo forums. We all know what losers guys with Evo's are (just kidding Ike).

saturn

My guess is that a good driver can still do one big thing with a MT that you can't do with a DSG -- heel/toe. If you brake into a turn with a DSG you can't keep the revs up like you can with a MT. I don't know how often this comes into play, but it's something.

JM1FE

No, actually it rev-matches on downshift and you can keep the revs up *exactly* like a MT. Test drive an A3 or GTI and see. Freaked me out the first time I drove one, clicked from 6 --> 3 and it rev-matched perfectly, ready for me to punch it with no shift-shock (a friend's car, mine is 6MT, we traded for a comparison drive one day).

saturn

I'm not talking about rev-matching during a downshift. I'm talking about heel/toe around a turn where you're applying the brakes. You can't blip the throttle to keep the revs up and since you're losing speed your revs drop. Nothing you can do about it other than shift into neutral and then blip the throttle I suppose.

JM1FE

Generally true, but...

very true, and 'shifts faster' translates to tiny advantages in being 'faster around the track', but in the big picture there are many things about track driving that can affect time, not just the milliseconds of the shift.


mmmm, have to disagree with you there. Here's a couple of pros testing and debating. Car-to-car, driver-to-driver, DSG has an edge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNR...pdmanual%2Ehtm

Personally, I didn't spend the money on DSG and like my 6MT just fine, but credit where it's due.

JM1FE

OK, I know what you mean with a MT, but with a DSG why would you need to 'keep the revs up' (since the drivetrain isn't disconnected for any significant period like it would be if you had the clutch in with your foot)? You approach the corner braking, turn in, clickclick it blips the throttle and engages for you, you accelerate out of the turn with the engine RPM near peak torque and drivetrain engaged.

If your comment is based on experience with a BMW SMG, or none at all, then you should really try an A3 or GTI with DSG under the conditions you describe to see how it reacts. Having driven it I'm pretty sure I'm right, but I'd be interested in your actual comparison as well.

saturn

Yeah, I think I see your point. It will still automatically rev-match for you during your down shift while braking the same as with any down shift.

I would not be qualified to determine any of those differences myself anyways. I just like to pwn n00bs (sad, but true). If a special tranny can help me do that I'm all for it. My goal is to have computers and/or machines one day live my life for me.

Ike

Funny you show this video, because if you watch the whole thing it shows the DSG losing to the MT on the TRACK. The same exact thing happens with the SMG equipped BMWs. The biggest factor in the drag race in the video is the launch control (which the US cars don't have). So far in the MKV GTI in the US the fastest times have been guys in MTs, at least that was the case last I checked.

saturn

Do you happen to know why none of the DSG equipped cars come with launch control in the US? Hear anything about the Evo X having it on US or non-US versions?

Ike

I remember reading why, but can't remember. I do know that the '07 is supposed to get it. As for the Evo, no word on it having that feature, I seriously doubt it will considering it's AWD. It is however very simple to get launch control with a reflash on the current Evos.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...launch+control

saturn

I guess that would make sense from the abuse side, but it's still hard to believe. I would think one of the main drawpoints of the DSG on an Evo to a lot of guys is the LC feature allowing for perfect auto-pwn launches.

I guess there's always power-braked launches.

saturn

For anyone who isn't familiar with the DSG transmission, here's an informative video brought to you by some 8 year olds.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...64618291395472

moRotorMotor

^OMG!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I can't stop laughing at that commercial.^

BlueEyes

That's pretty hilarious.

BlueEyes

How does the launch control on the EVO, or any AWD car for that matter, preload the drivetrain? I would think this is would be important in an AWD vehicle.