zoom44

Commercial vehicles by next year and all vehicles by 2014 New EU legislation requires cars to include autonymous braking system -- Engadget
"if they want to achieve a 5-star safety rating"

bse50

Automatic emergency braking is dangerous if you know how to drive. There are situation where dodging an obstacle is safer than braking... and attempting to brake while dodging it may result in a crash.

Driving is a skill, not a commodity... we forget that too often.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

But, with ABS, you should still have steering capability. Even with the brakes applied. I see this as a help during those times when you are temporarily distracted and not paying 100% attention to what's going on in front of you.

Bladecutter

What happens if a tractor trailer is rounding a corner, in the snow, and a deer appear in front of it? Can you say jackknife and then multi-car pileup?

Same applies to you in your passenger car.
Rounding a corner in the snow, and a deer jumps out in front of you.
Your brakes come on full force, and send you and your passengers into the nearest ditch, or worse yet, into oncoming traffic.

I hope the owners are given a shut off system for foul weather.

BC.

zoom44

what does it do in high traffic situations? "bumper to bumper"? what does it do when you creep up on someone on a single lane two way when you are getting ready to pass, will it hit the brakes just as you move over in the next lane to overtake?

how does it account for the brakes on one car being just a whole lot better than the brakes on another? when i have to get heavy on the brakes in the 8 im always looking in the rear view to see if someone is going to rear end me because I know im going to stop much sooner.

just a few months ago a car swerved at the last moment into the left turning lane and dead stopped before getting its tail out of my straight lane. i started to brake and at the same time checked my mirrors. i realized that the car behind me would hit us if i stayed on the brakes. the mirrors showed me that i had just enough room to squeeze right enough to go by the stopped tail end if i let up .

so i let up on the brakes, goosed the gas a little and just gave a quick right left swerve around him with maybe a half a mirror on my side and slightly ahead of the guy in the right lane. If i had no control over the brake at that moment when i swerved the guy on our right probably would have hit us and I know that guy behind us would have.

this all took about a half a second from the car stopping , my decision making and completing the avoidance maneuver everyone else in the car was quite impressed


ps- what if the sensors get dirty and your car doesnt stop? are you/the manufacture now open to a lawsuit because it didnt do its braking job and you end up in an accident? what if it dos try to do the job but the brakes fail? are you /the manufacturer open to a law suit because the whole system wasnt maintained/engineered better? can you sue the manufacturer because the system DIDN'T stop an accident

ken-x8

Which is not necessarily a good thing.

About 10 or 15 years ago I stopped for a red light, looked in my mirror and saw that a woman about half a block back didn't see it. She suddenly saw me, jammed on her brakes and cut her steering to the left. Fortunately, she had locked her brakes, so her car just kept skidding forward.

There was no cross traffic, so when I saw what was happening I scooted forward into the intersection. Got far enough forward that her front bumper barely touched my back bumper as she came to a stop, no damage.

If her car had ABS, she would have flown into oncoming traffic, with (I presume) horrendous results.

Ken

SamiRX-8

Well, if she had ABS, she would probably stop before the intersection, and generally she would stop much faster. The basic instinct is to hit the full brakes, but not everybody knows to slightly release it when the wheels start blocking.

This system would really come in handy in city traffic when you don't pay attention even when you're going 5 km/h, and all of a sudden someone is in front of you. System should also be nice on night driving when some animal suddenly starts crossing the road...

Just like zoom mentioned, my biggest concern from the beginning is would the gay behind stop and not hit me in the back.

If I remember right, this system gives you room for braking, before it starts braking automatically.

ASH8

/\ Agree, ABS would have pulled her up much shorter than just locking up and drifting.

AEB, Well there are many car companies which already have this or a similar systems.

New Mazda CX-5 has it for European models called 'Smart City Brake Support' helps prevent collisions between 4-30 KPH front collisions...also a Lane Departure Warning/Wandering system.

So all Mazda has to do is roll out to all models when 2014 Euro mandate comes..

8 Maniac

iTrader: (1)

I assume the systems are more advanced and consider more variables than we are giving it credit for here. I also assume that, in general, this will be considered an improvement to safety.

Then again, you know what they say about assumptions...

It's easy to point out what if's and situations in which it might cause more problems, but the important thing is whether it's better on the whole. If it improves the situation 40% of the time, is the same 50% of the time and is worse 10% of the time, is it worth it? I'd hope that sort of thing was taken into consideration while this decision was made.

ASH8

Talk about being up with the latest news here and timing....lol

Mazda CX-5 Praised For Standard Fitment Of Life-Saving Technology

LONDON – Aug 6, 2012: Major European vehicle safety organisation Euro NCAP, has highlighted the all-new Mazda CX-5 – already rated as one of the best performers in its safety tests after receiving its top five-star rating for occupant and pedestrian protection – for being at the forefront of its drive to equip all models with life-saving Autonomous Emergency Braking (AEB).

Mazda’s AEB system is called ‘Smart City Brake Support’ and CX-5 is one of the few models on sale in the UK that has the potentially life-saving technology fitted as standard across the range.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

We're living in a sad world where people can't do ANYTHING themselves ... can't eat properly, can't live properly, hell, can't even drive properly.

None of these **** can fix people's lack of driving skills aka STUPIDITY

Bladecutter

Honestly, if this technology can keep one person from rear ending my car some random day in the future due to their own stupidity, as you put it, then you know what? I don't think I mind at all.

Lets stuff it on every car, and be done with it.

Of course, this could lead to some serious silliness if you can identify a car that has crash avoidance tech in it, and brake check the tailgating bastard behind you.

BC.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

From Ash's article link:

This, I do not disagree with. Use at highway speeds I WOULD disagree with, or >45mph roads with traffic lights along them. As mentioned, applying the brakes is often not the best option to avoid an accident. At 19mph or slower though, there isn't enough option for vehicle lateral motion and full braking has a very short stopping distance, making it the best option. And at 19mph, I don't think there is anything you can be doing where applying ABS would make the car react dangerously.


Nice to see Mazda scoring a major point over Volvo, Mercedes, and BMW in the safety gadget game. I disagree with most of them, but then again, it helps sell the cars, and I need my rotary funding!

bse50

You don't have scooters scooting around traffic there... they often overtake you and keep at less than 2 metres from your car.
I don't want to spend more on brakes because the car thinks it should brake when it's not really necessary.

I guess i'll stick to old cars for the rest of my miserable life. Well, at least I know I can drive!

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Does the EU classify scooters as 'cars'? Do they get the safety ratings? I wouldn't think that the scooters will get this system, so you might have one crashing into the back. Don't tail gate the scooters though, and you won't be spending more on brakes? It's forward facing, not rearward.


I also would believe that this system doesn't use the brakes to try to maintain a distance, but rather "if your vehicle can stop in 12 feet at 19mph with full brake application, and you haven't touched the brakes at 13 feet from the stopped vehicle in front of you, it's going to apply the brakes fully". I would think it would apply the brakes just before the threshhold is reached, where it is exceedingly improbable that a human's reaction time could stop or slow the vehicle in time, and uses the math of the vehicle's maximum braking capacity vs the distance to the vehicle ahead.


This is like air bags I think. They don't deploy to keep you awake, they deploy to save your life when you fell asleep.

Given the speed limitations, I see this as only a good thing.

bse50

I was talking about scooters overtaking you and staying right in front of you, thus engaging YOUR brakes to keep the distance.

How about slow moving traffic?

I just don't like this kind of automation. If they really want to save lives the should spend the money on driving courses and handing over WAY LESS driving licenses.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

In the line of car manufacturers, precious few provide licenses or driver's training.

Again though, I don't see how 'slow moving traffic' would cause a problem here? It's not trying to maintain a distance, it's attempting to avoid a collision when a human's reaction time CAN'T avoid the collision. So if that scooter pulls in front of you and nails it's brakes, the only reason the system will activate is if you failed to slow down yourself, or the scooter's action placed it in a position where it wasn't possible for you to stop in time to avoid hitting it, slowing down the speed of the collision.

It's not trying to maintain distance, just if you would plow over that scooter, you can now not do so deliberately.

bse50

What if the scooter just scoots in front of you and is a bit slower yet you can either move slightly right, left or simply step off the gas?

What happens if you have to dodge a car to change lane at a traffic light? that happens ALL the time here.

This system is stupid and will undoubtly make traffic a worse mess.
Pedestrians could learn to use traffic lights and crosswalks for once and most milfs should leave the cars they can't drive at home.
Problem solved.

This society is just flawed. We keep struggling to protect the dumb from themselves when we could just let them die.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I don't like these kind of systems.

Again, you can't fix stupidity, if they want less accident, just make licensing 100 times harder. these days, unless you are mentally challenged and/or completely disabled, you can pretty much get a driver's license.

How to prevent **** from happening? Just don't let it happen ! Stop it before it has a chance!



I just seen too many morons driving, it's not even about if they're looking in front of the road or not. they are just plain stupid. and I see that **** everyday while working on NYC roads >_<

Bladecutter

If it were only possible to change things in the US so that would actually be possible... What a utopia we would have with our interstates and city roads filled with perfect drivers.

Oh, wait...

If we have things the way you want, all the stupid people would be forced to take mass transit. That means 1000% more buses spewing out black clouds of cancer causing death than there are currently.

Roads will still be just as crowded, just instead of millions of bad car drivers, you would have hundreds of thousands of buses filled to brim with stinky, smelly, inconsiderate passengers, and one really, angry, unhappy, homicidal bus driver at the wheel of all those hundreds of thousands of buses.

I'm not quite sure your replacement world is any better than the current world.

BC.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

One bus can handle at least 50 people, Let's assume if they drive it will be a "2 per car" deal. 25 extra cars on the road. in terms of traffic, I think that's already "better"

as for spewing out black clouds of cancer causing death, I think there are as much if not more cars spewing out black clouds of cancer causing death everyday, I seen it cuz I drive for a living, most of them simply don't give a ****.

as long as the buses keep their maintenance up to date, there shouldn't be any clouds of black smoke. and diesels are much cleaner than what most people in the US think it is.

Public transportation works as long as it's planned correctly, not NYC unfortunately. The way NYC handles public transportation is (Bloomberg's wonderful world way), just push as much people as they can into the system WITHOUT any sort of planning and upgrades, the 100 something yr old subways simply can't handle current load, that's why it always breaks down, train misses their time frame, smelly, dirty, rats everywhere, etc. and our wonderful mayor always wonder why people won't take subways/buses. Yeah, I wouldn't take it if it causes me to missed my work every week or so.

Almost same thing for the buses, it's just until recently they start upgrading their buses to something China has about 25 years ago ----- an extra cart ! Now almost all NYC buses have 2 carts. Wow but sadly, utilization rate is still low cuz there are so many routes that's just repeat each other. seriously, there is almost a bus line every fuxking Ave, is that really necessary ?)

So yea planning is important, NYC? not so much.

Take some other city for example, Tokyo and Hong Kong, people there don't even want/have to drive, public transportation will get them to almost everywhere in a fast and efficient way. and people who owns cars are either weathly, their life depends on it, or simply just want to have a car (see reason #1)

if they really want to help the world, they should just straighten up their licensing requirements, and plan the public transportation system carefully. Win Win for everybody. NOT adding some funky system to the car and drive the cost up for almost no reason.

First it was Automatic seatbelt, thank god that **** failed.
Airbag and ABS then came, how many people did they actually saved? I think I read a report a while ago and the study saids it's just about 50/50. and how much do those extra **** cost again?
TPMS, Ok, you don't check your f-king tires is that everybody's problem?
Now all these wonderful brake whatever system,

talk about waste of time.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

If this really was just a nanny system I would whole heartedly agree with you guys.


However, I feel that objecting to this is the same as objecting to air bags. It's only reacting when it detects that you have crossed the threshhold where you HAD to have acted to avoid an accident. You didn't react, and accident is unavoidable if left to human hands. THEN the system kicks in to minimize damage, possibly avoid it entirely if in that narrow gap between when a human can't react any longer and a computer can.


Again, not a nanny system. An actual straight up protection mechanism.

Sure, heads up aware driving to prevent you from getting in that situation in the first place.


My 8's air bags have never been deployed in 106,000 miles of driving. That doesn't mean that it's a nanny system that is unwanted. I have driven as needed to prevent their deployment. If I had this system in my car, I would also be driving so that it was never in the position to see a need to react. But, a moment's inattention is all it takes, and there are lots of people on the road that gamble with these moments all the time. I'm rather pleased that there is an increasing chance that I won't have my car destroyed due to their inattention.

SamiRX-8

Well, the diesels are sure clean in these days. One thing to mention is that EU regulations are really strict, and for example, the trucks here will first come with Euro VI exhaust regulations norms, followed by cars. I don't have anything against public transport, as long as it's good and organized.

But on these systems, suppose you weren't looking on the road, the ball comes on the street and the child runs to it without looking around. Your car brakes and you don't hit the kid, and that's worth more than your rear bumper

bse50

Airbags don't interact with your driving. Moreover, I know when I have to brake better than any computer my car may be equipped with. Just like the other stupid system that doesn't let you change lanes or warns you if you are.
Want to save lives? 30 years of jail to who texts and drives. That's pretty much the only reason why you may need some computer to brake for you.... because you're not looking at the road.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Agreed. Entirely agreed bse. A good driver will never put themselves in a position to need the system. Lane departure IS nanny, this system is not. It doesn't 'interfere with your driving'. It saves the *** of the person in front of you if you failed to prevent it yourself.

And for that, my own *** is grateful, because there are a lot of terrible drivers out there.