DSG Tranny in 06 GTI
#51
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Originally Posted by rickeo
alright girls, this is a dumb argument. Its a seqential gearbox.. as opposed to a conventional automatic.. also as opposed to a conventional manual. get over yelling at eatchother over what somebody "calls" it, that doesnt change what it actually is. NOW, back to how cool it is...
Thats interesting news that Ferrari made at move at buying the technology. But what i would like to know is if the technology is actually not aloowed to be duplicated..? Is that why Ferrari would have to buy it, cant they make a version just like it, using the same concept?
Thats interesting news that Ferrari made at move at buying the technology. But what i would like to know is if the technology is actually not aloowed to be duplicated..? Is that why Ferrari would have to buy it, cant they make a version just like it, using the same concept?
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Originally Posted by cleoent
It's not an automatic transmission. It's a manual transmission which can be shifted automatically.
F1 with sequential gearbox - manual
Road ferarri with same sequential gearbox + transmission control computer - automatic
eventually, if VW releases a manual shifter + clutch pedal to control the DSG shifts, then it will be a manual. as it is implemented today, it is an automatic that has a quasi-manual mode.
#53
Originally Posted by Glyphon
no, those are simply parts that make a traditional automatic function.
what makes an auto and auto is no clutch pedal, and car shifts automatically
also, DSG is direct shift gearbox. it has no mention of auto or manual in its name. and yes, it is a sequential gearbox, but that in and of itselft does not mean auto or manual.
what makes an auto and auto is no clutch pedal, and car shifts automatically
also, DSG is direct shift gearbox. it has no mention of auto or manual in its name. and yes, it is a sequential gearbox, but that in and of itselft does not mean auto or manual.
When someone speaks of a traditional auto they are thinking of something that comes in an accord, or a taurus, which is a tranny that uses those parts.
Those parts are what make a traditional auto a traditional auto.
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Originally Posted by cleoent
Um no.
When someone speaks of a traditional auto they are thinking of something that comes in an accord, or a taurus, which is a tranny that uses those parts.
Those parts are what make a traditional auto a traditional auto.
When someone speaks of a traditional auto they are thinking of something that comes in an accord, or a taurus, which is a tranny that uses those parts.
Those parts are what make a traditional auto a traditional auto.
#55
Originally Posted by Glyphon
well, maybe. but, ultimately what makes it an auto or a manual is how it is implemented in a given car.
F1 with sequential gearbox - manual
Road ferarri with same sequential gearbox + transmission control computer - automatic
eventually, if VW releases a manual shifter + clutch pedal to control the DSG shifts, then it will be a manual. as it is implemented today, it is an automatic that has a quasi-manual mode.
F1 with sequential gearbox - manual
Road ferarri with same sequential gearbox + transmission control computer - automatic
eventually, if VW releases a manual shifter + clutch pedal to control the DSG shifts, then it will be a manual. as it is implemented today, it is an automatic that has a quasi-manual mode.
All F1 boxes will have a transmission control computer FYI.
It's not an auto, it's not a manual, it's a semi auto. A manual that can be driven like an auto. It has all the same parts a manual does, and none of the parts an auto does. Only difference is, the computer does the leg work (get it, leg work ha ha ha ha i crack myself up lol)
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Originally Posted by cleoent
My question is: Why doesn't Lambo use DSG in their cars, instead using the inferior (from what i've read, i've never driven a murcielago or gallardo ) e-gear? That makes no sense to me.
#57
Originally Posted by Ike
Sorry, but I'm not going to let others preconceived notions dicatate what I call something. If it's shifts automatically for me the term automatic seems pretty damn fitting.
Good luck with that.
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Originally Posted by cleoent
This is again where we will have to agree to disagree.
All F1 boxes will have a transmission control computer FYI.
It's not an auto, it's not a manual, it's a semi auto. A manual that can be driven like an auto. It has all the same parts a manual does, and none of the parts an auto does. Only difference is, the computer does the leg work (get it, leg work ha ha ha ha i crack myself up lol)
All F1 boxes will have a transmission control computer FYI.
It's not an auto, it's not a manual, it's a semi auto. A manual that can be driven like an auto. It has all the same parts a manual does, and none of the parts an auto does. Only difference is, the computer does the leg work (get it, leg work ha ha ha ha i crack myself up lol)
All the same parts huh? Seems to me it's missing some very important things that a manual has. Lets see, clutch pedal, nope, manual shifter that allows you to select gears, nope. Try downshifting from 5th directly to 2nd with a DSG...
FYI, even a traditional slushbox has clutch plates and friction plates.
#60
Originally Posted by rickeo
ALright cleoent, do you agree this is getting a little out of hand...? as well as completely off topic.
It's definitely off topic, but there's been no flaming we're just discussing, if a mod could split the thread that would be nice.
#61
Originally Posted by Ike
All the same parts huh? Seems to me it's missing some very important things that a manual has. Lets see, clutch pedal, nope, manual shifter that allows you to select gears, nope. Try downshifting from 5th directly to 2nd with a DSG...
FYI, even a traditional slushbox has clutch plates and friction plates.
FYI, even a traditional slushbox has clutch plates and friction plates.
I bet you 5 bucks, that i could tap the shifter 3 times (5>4>3>2) faster then you could put clutch in, heel toe (you see they all rev match now), move shifter over and drop second and let out the clutch.
Cool technology huh?
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Originally Posted by cleoent
Those parts are what make a traditional auto a traditional auto.
the driver not selecting the timing of the shift, the shift itself and the gears is what makes an auto an auto.
simply put, an auto changes gears for you, a manual requires it to be done by the driver. makes no difference which technology causes the changing of gears.
and saying that an i4 is the same thing as a boxer-4 is wrong, because the layout is different. but they are both 4 bangers. (i see you edited out boxer 4).
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Originally Posted by cleoent
There's a clutch pedal, accept we dont push it, it's hydrollically controlled and can be pushed in and out faster then we could have ever hoped.
I bet you 5 bucks, that i could tap the shifter 3 times (5>4>3>2) faster then you could put clutch in, heel toe (you see they all rev match now), move shifter over and drop second and let out the clutch.
Cool technology huh?
I bet you 5 bucks, that i could tap the shifter 3 times (5>4>3>2) faster then you could put clutch in, heel toe (you see they all rev match now), move shifter over and drop second and let out the clutch.
Cool technology huh?
#64
Originally Posted by Glyphon
and saying that an i4 is the same thing as a boxer-4 is wrong, because the layout is different. but they are both 4 bangers. (i see you edited out boxer 4).
My point was exactly that. i6 and a v6 are different, very different, but both are six cylinders... so one could argue they are the same, i say they are not. But we are getting even more off topic.
Ike, imagine this, i think you have an evo now right?
Ok imagine an evo that could be programmed to get that perfect balance between grip and wheelspin on launch, can shift faster then you could ever dream, could rev match perfectly with each downshift, could switch each gear with a fast and authoritive thunk time after time after time, and then at the end of the day you push a putton and it's silky smooth shifts without you having to break a sweat. Say hallo to DSG. (the others ones do this, but not as well)
You show me a auto, with a torque converter that can do that, and you win.
#65
Originally Posted by Glyphon
speed of shifts has nothing to do with this.
As far as the rev matching goes, i've read that the newer auto's are doing that, that is friggin pimp. Technology owns.
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Originally Posted by cleoent
There's a clutch pedal, accept we dont push it, it's hydrollically controlled and can be pushed in and out faster then we could have ever hoped.
#67
Originally Posted by Ike
Read that again and think about it, I'll give you some time
lol. Now you're splitting hairs. I think you should hang em up dude. You're really having to stretch to get any sort of footing in this discussion.
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Originally Posted by Glyphon
simply put, an auto changes gears for you, a manual requires it to be done by the driver. makes no difference which technology causes the changing of gears.
The fact is, the transmissions we are discussing here are NOT automatics and they are NOT manuals. They are a completely different category. Why can't you accept that? Because it will mean admitting you have been wrong throughout this entire thread?
The ONLY difference between a traditional manual transmission and a sequential manual gearbox is that in the SMG, the clutch is controlled by the computer instead of by a person's left foot. The transmission used is EXACTLY the same. The only SIMILARITY between a traditional automatic and an SMG is that you don't HAVE to shift yourself.
Here's more info on these types of transmissions: http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...ear_manual.htm
Here's a quote from that site:
Twin-clutch gearbox is undoubtedly a revolutionary technology for manual transmission. Its impact to the automotive world is even greater than automated manual gearbox such Ferrari F1 system. Twin-clutch gearbox was first put into production by BorgWarner, which calls it "DualTronic". It was first used in Audi TT 3.2 in the name "DSG" (Direct-Shift Gearbox).
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Originally Posted by cleoent
Sure it does, it has everything to do with this. Show me a factory "auto" tranny that chirps gears, and has launch control.
As far as the rev matching goes, i've read that the newer auto's are doing that, that is friggin pimp. Technology owns.
As far as the rev matching goes, i've read that the newer auto's are doing that, that is friggin pimp. Technology owns.
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Originally Posted by cleoent
My point was exactly that. i6 and a v6 are different, very different, but both are six cylinders... so one could argue they are the same, i say they are not. But we are getting even more off topic.
auto = 4 banger
manual = 6 banger
both engines do the same thing. and under each type (size) of engine, there are multiple sub groups, but they are still part of the same grouping.
boxer-4 is different than a i4, but they are both 4 cylinders, same with the 6 cylinder engines. different types, but still are 6-cyl engines.
this is just confirming what i said earlier...there is only an auto and a manual, but there are different types of each of these.
#71
Originally Posted by sti_eric
Yes, "simply put" is exactly it. You are oversimplifying an automatic by saying that anything that can be programmed to shift for you is an automatic. This is your own personal definition that you are desperately trying to get everyone here to accept.
The fact is, the transmissions we are discussing here are NOT automatics and they are NOT manuals. They are a completely different category. Why can't you accept that? Because it will mean admitting you have been wrong throughout this entire thread?
The ONLY difference between a traditional manual transmission and a sequential manual gearbox is that in the SMG, the clutch is controlled by the computer instead of by a person's left foot. The transmission used is EXACTLY the same. The only SIMILARITY between a traditional automatic and an SMG is that you don't HAVE to shift yourself.
Here's more info on these types of transmissions: http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...ear_manual.htm
Here's a quote from that site:
Twin-clutch gearbox is undoubtedly a revolutionary technology for manual transmission. Its impact to the automotive world is even greater than automated manual gearbox such Ferrari F1 system. Twin-clutch gearbox was first put into production by BorgWarner, which calls it "DualTronic". It was first used in Audi TT 3.2 in the name "DSG" (Direct-Shift Gearbox).
The fact is, the transmissions we are discussing here are NOT automatics and they are NOT manuals. They are a completely different category. Why can't you accept that? Because it will mean admitting you have been wrong throughout this entire thread?
The ONLY difference between a traditional manual transmission and a sequential manual gearbox is that in the SMG, the clutch is controlled by the computer instead of by a person's left foot. The transmission used is EXACTLY the same. The only SIMILARITY between a traditional automatic and an SMG is that you don't HAVE to shift yourself.
Here's more info on these types of transmissions: http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...ear_manual.htm
Here's a quote from that site:
Twin-clutch gearbox is undoubtedly a revolutionary technology for manual transmission. Its impact to the automotive world is even greater than automated manual gearbox such Ferrari F1 system. Twin-clutch gearbox was first put into production by BorgWarner, which calls it "DualTronic". It was first used in Audi TT 3.2 in the name "DSG" (Direct-Shift Gearbox).
#72
Originally Posted by Ike
Technology owns til you get it on a track (one with turns), at least the technology in street cars.
But, you put them on a track, like a few magazines have done, and guess which one is faster, easier around a track? I'll give you a hint, the driver doesn't have to worry about pushing in a clutch with his left leg.
#73
Originally Posted by Glyphon
using your analogy...
auto = 4 banger
manual = 6 banger
both engines do the same thing. and under each type (size) of engine, there are multiple sub groups, but they are still part of the same grouping.
boxer-4 is different than a i4, but they are both 4 cylinders, same with the 6 cylinder engines. different types, but still are 6-cyl engines.
this is just confirming what i said earlier...there is only an auto and a manual, but there are different types of each of these.
auto = 4 banger
manual = 6 banger
both engines do the same thing. and under each type (size) of engine, there are multiple sub groups, but they are still part of the same grouping.
boxer-4 is different than a i4, but they are both 4 cylinders, same with the 6 cylinder engines. different types, but still are 6-cyl engines.
this is just confirming what i said earlier...there is only an auto and a manual, but there are different types of each of these.
That doesn't make me less right, or you more wrong (cuz frankly, that's not possible )
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Originally Posted by cleoent
What part didn't you understand? Perhaps this would help "Clutch pedal"
lol. Now you're splitting hairs. I think you should hang em up dude. You're really having to stretch to get any sort of footing in this discussion.
lol. Now you're splitting hairs. I think you should hang em up dude. You're really having to stretch to get any sort of footing in this discussion.
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Originally Posted by sti_eric
Yes, "simply put" is exactly it. You are oversimplifying an automatic by saying that anything that can be programmed to shift for you is an automatic. This is your own personal definition that you are desperately trying to get everyone here to accept.
and yes, i'm saying that an auto can be both. put the car in D, and ignore it after that, its an auto. put it in manu-matic, and its a manual, because by and large it requires the user to select the gear (but since it has all the compenents necessary to be an auto, it can over ride the manual inputs in certain situations).
a manual transmission cannot be run as an automatic if the driver chooses not to shift. the mechanisms to override the driver and shift gears is not present.