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Automobile mag on Mazda's health 2012

Old 08-10-2012, 11:44 AM
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Automobile mag on Mazda's health 2012

I found this interesting. I like Mazdas, but the world is evolving fast and a small company like Mazda has a hard time keeping up.

Noise, Vibration & Harshness: Mazda 2012 - Automobile Magazine

Any thoughts?
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Old 08-10-2012, 04:24 PM
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"Say, is Ratan Tata in the house?"

One seriously sad but honest article. Mazda sells no trucks in the US, no Minivan (Unless you count the mini mini van Mazda5), no luxury offering per say except maybe the CX-9 (Which I really wonder about it's future although wonderful driving). The Mazda2 is quite dated. The RX-8 is dead. We have no firm word on anything regarding the low volume MX-5. We have never had options for coupe versions of the 3 or 6. The lineup is small and getting smaller which makes me wonder. I love Mazda vehicles and would be devastated to see the company fail.

I wish they were the first to start making truly fun rwd cars across most of the platfom. I wish they sold cars that were not geared toward people on a budget all the time. Unless they build stuff that has strong profit built in I'm worried. Their racing heritage has never properly been transferred to the brand in the way Porsche would do.

We'll see if the future may possess a a rising Sun to shine upon our little Japanese company again.

Paul.
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Old 08-11-2012, 02:30 AM
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Mazda is a small cap, and this thing can't change...about the small line-up, ok ...there are few models into line-up and holes in various segments, but this thing helps to keep cost down and put more money into R&D and the surviving models.

the game is to gain money with the few models there are produced, searching a one-shot-success.

example: Mx-5 in 90's.... First gen Mazda6 (a huge hit in Europe, helped a lot to gain brand awareness here....)

Cx-5 seems to have the same success...we'll see.
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:44 AM
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OH Jeez..here we go Gloom and Doom again...

Sorry if this hurts my US friends, but you guys have been getting away with cars that are too cheap for far too long, the rest of the world has been and continues to subsidise your 'imported' car market..

85% of Mazda's huge losses have been because of the US, because they can't sell their cars for what they really want to...the 'market' just won't accept it.
Mazda 'have been' losing money on every car they sell in the US at the moment.

As we know and it is also currency related, all Japanese made cars are finding the same problem, no profit, just Mazda has not got another large supplier/country to offset the Yen at the moment.
Mazda Mexico plant opens soon.

Even Lexus (Toyota) is 'thinking' (last week) about making more models (sedans) in the America's because of the YEN.

Yes, Mazda have made 4 years of losses, but so far this quarter their losses are below $86 mil and are forecast to make a profit in 2013...that is next year.

As far as models go..well as I have said before they are renewing ALL of them.

They invested half a billion in the ICE Banger to great success, NO other maker has spent as much.

The all new CX-5 is selling gang busters Worldwide.

All new 6 out soon.

All new 3 late next year.

New 2 also early 2014.

All new MX-5.

Yeah, it is sad that there is no Rotary, but, sorry I don't want Mazda to make one IF it is going to send them broke.

Whatever you think they made nothing from the RX-8..they are continuing to lose even though the model has finished, again thanks to the USA engine warranty that no one else got.

And I will say it again, I hate they way Mazda's are marketed in the US..and I put it squarely at the top bosses in US, they have eroded Mazda's reputation ....not improved it.

Paul would know, just look at the price of Genuine Mazda Parts increases in the US, up 25% in a year...Imagine if they put their cars up by 25%???

Add the GFC and Tsunami and a poor world economy (except Australia)...what a recipe.

I have faith in Takashi Yamanouchi...I don't envy his job.
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Old 08-11-2012, 06:55 AM
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Sorry accepted….but right back at ya. Sadly, some island people prefer America bashing over dealing with reality. Specifically, we here don't "get away with cars that are too cheap" nor is the rest of the world "subsidizing us". That's utter garbage and is as irresponsible to infer as it is ludicrous to suggest. The economies of the world and the multi-national companies that sell to them all are in competition together and against each other. Every auto company's over-riding goal is to make money FROM their customers in every market, not give money away to “some of them” via any type of targeted subsidy, built on the backs of others countries' customers.

Hard to believe people stubbornly still think that for the US, all the auto companies of the world collectively collude on lowering prices just here across the board vis-ŕ-vis the rest of world. Best turn suspicious eyes closer to home, me thinks. Because if there IS something that makes a pricing differential from country to country, it’s local governments tariffing and local governments taxing of automobiles, and lack of economies of scale of doing business and manufacturing somewhere small vs. larger markets, for example.

On another note, I will agree Mazda’s marketing here in the US has been abysmal. Occasionally and recently they’ve shown sparks of a comeback (from being completely AOL), but achieving success targeting the masses is not something that happens overnight, it takes years. And the proof is in the pudding, or cookie dough . Because you can’t taste them cookies ‘til they’re out of the oven, saying Mazda’s new cars will save the company is a stretch. There’s way to much that can happen between now as we sit here waiting… and calling Mazda (once again) the comeback kid…

Some bookie somewhere knows the odds. I wonder what they are??
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:50 AM
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"You're losing money on every sale!"

"Yes, but I make up for it in volume."
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ASH8 View Post
the USA engine warranty that no one else got.
Incorrect... we got it too... not that we had much impact

I enjoyed the rest of your response.


I'd love to see a new rotary based on the new Miata. RX-5 convertible anyone? 2200 lbs, 250+ HP, 6 speed rotary convertible...

The majority of people in the NA market seem to make every purchase solely on price... time to base decisions on value...

People need some help getting their heads out of their asses... time for some marketing magic!



Originally Posted by Orthonormal View Post
"You're losing money on every sale!"

"Yes, but I make up for it in volume."
Too funny!

Last edited by DarkBrew; 08-11-2012 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:17 AM
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I will just say that I agree with what was stated a couple times already; Mazda's marketing is down right painfully bad.

I wish to god they would ditch the juvenile 'zoom-zoom' catch phrase. Barf.
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Old 08-11-2012, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Spin9k View Post
Sorry accepted….but right back at ya. Sadly, some island people prefer America bashing over dealing with reality. Specifically, we here don't "get away with cars that are too cheap" nor is the rest of the world "subsidizing us". That's utter garbage and is as irresponsible to infer as it is ludicrous to suggest. The economies of the world and the multi-national companies that sell to them all are in competition together and against each other. Every auto company's over-riding goal is to make money FROM their customers in every market, not give money away to “some of them” via any type of targeted subsidy, built on the backs of others countries' customers.

Hard to believe people stubbornly still think that for the US, all the auto companies of the world collectively collude on lowering prices just here across the board vis-ŕ-vis the rest of world. Best turn suspicious eyes closer to home, me thinks. Because if there IS something that makes a pricing differential from country to country, it’s local governments tariffing and local governments taxing of automobiles, and lack of economies of scale of doing business and manufacturing somewhere small vs. larger markets, for example.

On another note, I will agree Mazda’s marketing here in the US has been abysmal. Occasionally and recently they’ve shown sparks of a comeback (from being completely AOL), but achieving success targeting the masses is not something that happens overnight, it takes years. And the proof is in the pudding, or cookie dough . Because you can’t taste them cookies ‘til they’re out of the oven, saying Mazda’s new cars will save the company is a stretch. There’s way to much that can happen between now as we sit here waiting… and calling Mazda (once again) the comeback kid…

Some bookie somewhere knows the odds. I wonder what they are??
M8, I am not bashing anyone..just stating a reality..for MAZDA..FACT...perhaps you should quote some.
You have the Cheapest cars in the world....fact.
Mazda sells most models cheaper in the USA than it does where they are made in Japan..Retail.?.
A $500 Million Dollar loss out of NMAO alone is not peanuts for a market share that can't even reach 2%!!....that means they are making NOTHING.
If you comprehend what I said, I said your MARKET (what people are prepared to pay) dictates the price, not 'other' manufacturers or a cartel or collusion...I never said that...

"it takes years"...Mazda in US have been here since the 60's, how much longer do you want.
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Old 08-11-2012, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Corso View Post
I will just say that I agree with what was stated a couple times already; Mazda's marketing is down right painfully bad.

I wish to god they would ditch the juvenile 'zoom-zoom' catch phrase. Barf.
Do you...gee I think is still has some mileage left in it.

To me, I guess it is how it is done (again).
But yeah, I don't like he full ZZ song..which I think has died in most locations, but a tag at the end is a good reminder..

It has actually been Mazda's (world-wide) most successful marketing tag yet.

So, What do you replace it with..
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:49 PM
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I know little about marketing or corporate business, I just know what I like. The Furai and it's production styling descendants just seem overdone and silly....and apparently not all that original.
Maybe if they got away from that "Nagare" thing?

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Old 08-12-2012, 01:00 AM
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That looks like Batman's car...lol
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:27 AM
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The Furai was a beautiful car... for what it was. I think they took the Nagare thing a little too far. Their pre-release marketing of the CX-5 was almost non-existent. I think they should bridge the gap between the mass market B/C/D cars and the luxury B/C/D cars. I just don't know of there is enough money there.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:51 AM
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The old adage was to race on Sunday and sell on Monday.

Mazdas are out every Sunday but I can't say I've ever seen a company so inept at translating their racing program into sales.

What the hell is going on?
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Old 08-12-2012, 12:32 PM
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They already kicked nagare to the curb. long live Kodo
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:34 PM
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I'm sorry that you don't like its styling, but I would put a Furai in my garage in a heartbeat. The real question is why didn't they make a version of it for sale to the public?

As for Mazda's future, well, lets get some ideas going.

Let's hear your ideas on what YOU would do if you were in charge of Mazda.

I still think they should go upscale in the market.
Get people comparing their cars against BMW's, Porsche's, Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura, not against Scion, Toyota, Honda, Chevy, Dodge, etc.

Doing this allows them to raise their price tags a bit to make their cars profitable, but still undercutting their new competition. You can easily tell the clientele that the performance of the vehicles is worth the extra money. They can increase their warranty coverage to be competitive, since the clientele will be more upscale.

We know the product is good.
But, people who buy Camry's and Corolla's don't give a crap about fantastic driving dynamics. So why compete against that kind of market when you are never going to sway the customers to care about your product's only marketable advantage?

People who buy BMW's care about driving dynamics.
People who buy Porsche's care about driving dynamics.
People who buy Mazda's care about driving dynamics.
Lets get those previous two sets of owners buying Mazda's instead.

Its not impossible, and its not a stretch.

BC.
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:31 PM
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I love how a discussion about Mazda's challenges turns into a blame game that all their ails are due to the "cheap" US car market.

As it was mentioned, Mazda and every other import company have to compete against US automotive manufacturers here. If suddenly the cost of a base Mazda3 went from $16,000 to $25,000 you can bet people would either switch to another brand or start buying American branded cars again. I might find the interior and construction of Ford cars to be sub par, but if it makes the different of $10,000 or more you can bet I'd take that to the bank (literally).

Currencies are the true issues here, not price. The yen is strong so Mazda is right to start building their cars in North America to take advantage of the cheaper labor costs. Provided they can keep their quality in check, producing their cars cheaper will allow them a profit in the end.
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Old 08-12-2012, 03:01 PM
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It comes down to the product's value proposition and the strength of the brand name.

Mazda seems comfortable being grouped in with Nissan, Toyota etc... Yet Mazda has a strong enthusiast culture; They are offbeat and quirky as a company but seem to want to hide that rather than exploit it. Keep in mind that their best years were when they were doing things differently than anyone else.

The last car I bought was a 2011 Ford Fiesta. Why? Because in that year it was the only B class car you could buy with the mix of technology, features and mileage it achieves. Perception of value is higher because it brought luxury features to its market but retains the desirable qualities of a small car. It is full of "surprise and delight" as Apple coins it.

The point of that story was to illustrate the possibility of upscaling your current fleet. Mazda can combine this with killer mileage and excellent road dynamics making their value proposition very strong especially as gas prices rise.

Next is branding. Mazda has been failing in this regard and needs to decide how it wants to craft its market statement. Racing and driving enthusiasm seem to be core items. The Germans positioned their offering around a similar theme and Mazda can do the same.
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Old 08-12-2012, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by DarkBrew View Post
The majority of people in the NA market seem to make every purchase solely on price... time to base decisions on value...
That's the reason why SRT4, Civic, Geo Metro, Cruze, Sonic, and load of other garbage cars can sell.

This market does not cared (mostly) if the car has good handling, they just want power and/or super cheap (READ:SRT4), most people here can't drive for **** anyways, also explains why Automatic transmission is such a big seller in the US and almost people rarely knows how to drive a stick.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by nycgps View Post
That's the reason why SRT4, Civic, Geo Metro, Cruze, Sonic, and load of other garbage cars can sell.

This market does not cared (mostly) if the car has good handling, they just want power and/or super cheap (READ:SRT4), most people here can't drive for **** anyways, also explains why Automatic transmission is such a big seller in the US and almost people rarely knows how to drive a stick.
It extends much further into the economy.. basing purchase decisions purely on price instead of value are collectively responsible for the current economy full of layoffs, outsourcing, poor selection and companies like Walmart selling garbage from China to poor people and telling them they can live better.
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Old 08-13-2012, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Bladecutter View Post
I'm sorry that you don't like its styling, but I would put a Furai in my garage in a heartbeat. The real question is why didn't they make a version of it for sale to the public?

As for Mazda's future, well, lets get some ideas going.

Let's hear your ideas on what YOU would do if you were in charge of Mazda.

I still think they should go upscale in the market.
Get people comparing their cars against BMW's, Porsche's, Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura, not against Scion, Toyota, Honda, Chevy, Dodge, etc.

Doing this allows them to raise their price tags a bit to make their cars profitable, but still undercutting their new competition. You can easily tell the clientele that the performance of the vehicles is worth the extra money. They can increase their warranty coverage to be competitive, since the clientele will be more upscale.

We know the product is good.
But, people who buy Camry's and Corolla's don't give a crap about fantastic driving dynamics. So why compete against that kind of market when you are never going to sway the customers to care about your product's only marketable advantage?

People who buy BMW's care about driving dynamics.
People who buy Porsche's care about driving dynamics.
People who buy Mazda's care about driving dynamics.
Lets get those previous two sets of owners buying Mazda's instead.

Its not impossible, and its not a stretch.

BC.
I agree with going upmarket. The new Mazda 6 should be the Shinari. I think the new 6 looks good but not good enough. The Shinari looked really upscale. Mazda has to be bolder. They could've shortened it for the RX8-9. Make an even longer wheelbase version and call it the Mazda9. If I was Mazda I would build and market my cars or most of them as entry level luxury and go up against Acura, and Volvo.
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