Asian's overrate HP on cars
08-17-2005, 12:22 PM
#1
Go Texas Longhorns!
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08-17-2005, 01:05 PM
#3
wait, it REALLY hits close to home, and they explained it wrong, wtf 
from article:
from article:
When an engine doesn't measure up to its advertised performance, it can hurt. Mazda Motor Corp. reintroduced the rotary engine with its RX-8 sports coupe a few years ago. It had a high horsepower rating. But when drivers got inside, they discovered weak low-end torque, meaning that the rocket-like acceleration they'd expected was missing.
08-17-2005, 01:56 PM
#5
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And yet GM, Ford and Chrysler will continue to give huge discount to move inventory. I doubt this will have a noticeable effect on Toyota and Honda. I doubt HP scores for consumers who buy Camry and Accords.
08-17-2005, 02:10 PM
#7
Go Texas Longhorns!
Thread Starter
any one wanna bet $10 if they retest our car, the number comes in between 220 and 225 bhp? 
This is so funny, because it shows how dumb the average consumer is. So few people drive HP its hilarious. Not to mention, its the average power that shows the true stength of the engine. It reminds me of the stupid marketing ploy Intel used with the P4, if we crank up the mhz speed, people will think its faster! No one bothered other than geeks to put that processor clock speed in prospective, and Intel knew this.
Bet the Acura marketing folks are pissed. 290 doesn't sound near as nice as 300 for the new RL.
This is so funny, because it shows how dumb the average consumer is. So few people drive HP its hilarious. Not to mention, its the average power that shows the true stength of the engine. It reminds me of the stupid marketing ploy Intel used with the P4, if we crank up the mhz speed, people will think its faster! No one bothered other than geeks to put that processor clock speed in prospective, and Intel knew this.
Bet the Acura marketing folks are pissed. 290 doesn't sound near as nice as 300 for the new RL.
08-17-2005, 02:42 PM
#9
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That just goes to prove that the RX-8 never lost any power. There is no missing power. Their interpretation of power was off. Don't get mad at Mazda. Get mad at all the Japanese because they have different interpretations of the rules. I have a little freaking Civic as a daily driver. It is rated at 127 hp. I'd hate to know what it really does.
08-17-2005, 02:43 PM
#10
Oil Injection
Originally Posted by ZoomZoomH
wait, it REALLY hits close to home, and they explained it wrong, wtf
from article:
from article:
"...Mazda Motor Corp. reintroduced the rotary engine with its RX-8 sports coupe a few years ago. It had a high horsepower rating. But when drivers got inside, they discovered weak low-end torque, meaning that the rocket-like acceleration they'd expected was missing"
that doesnt make any sense....WE on the forum know the deal with the HP rating but a lot of people dont, and the above statement makes no sense to me. Mazda said the car had higher HP than it actualy did, they never made any mention of lowend TQ...hello NA rotary.....WTF?!?!
all this talk of power beside the point, as others said....its about POWER BAND and USABLE POWER!!!!
even that aside...... doesnt anyone TEST DRIVE CARS anymore???? you mean the american public is so stupid that they are gonna buy a car cause it says it has 300hp and then get pissed when it doesnt 'feel' like 300hp??? i guess...
if you see a car you want to buy TEST DRIVE IT, if you like it buy it...if you dont MOVE ON......arrrrrrr
08-17-2005, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by KYLiquid
didnt toyota as well as others UNDERRATE the HP of their cars in the mid 90's before the jap supercar left our shores?
08-17-2005, 03:36 PM
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^no, we're talking about the mid-90's underating of cars like the Supra. Has nothing to do with the new test procedures as the Supra is no longer in production.
08-17-2005, 03:42 PM
#15
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Originally Posted by RX-Hachi
it looks like they went over board in the other direction.
08-17-2005, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by brillo
any one wanna bet $10 if they retest our car, the number comes in between 220 and 225 bhp?
This is so funny, because it shows how dumb the average consumer is. So few people drive HP its hilarious. Not to mention, its the average power that shows the true stength of the engine. It reminds me of the stupid marketing ploy Intel used with the P4, if we crank up the mhz speed, people will think its faster! No one bothered other than geeks to put that processor clock speed in prospective, and Intel knew this.
Bet the Acura marketing folks are pissed. 290 doesn't sound near as nice as 300 for the new RL.
This is so funny, because it shows how dumb the average consumer is. So few people drive HP its hilarious. Not to mention, its the average power that shows the true stength of the engine. It reminds me of the stupid marketing ploy Intel used with the P4, if we crank up the mhz speed, people will think its faster! No one bothered other than geeks to put that processor clock speed in prospective, and Intel knew this.
Bet the Acura marketing folks are pissed. 290 doesn't sound near as nice as 300 for the new RL.
08-17-2005, 04:10 PM
#17
Administrator
the advertised HP figure is 238. 223/238=.936 rounded to .94 or 6 percent off . that seems to be pretty close to 5%. and since the person who posted that used a chasis dyno that then used a sort of back calculation that is suspect at best and is more like a guess to determine flywheel power and it was not done on an engine dyno to sae specs either old or new then it is not evidence of anything beyond a good guess by the dyno operator.
08-17-2005, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by zoom44
you suggested that they have gone in the other direction now - meaning now over rating as opposed to underrating like they did the supra. i can only understand that to mean you think they were over rating the cars until this.
Doesn't that imply that the new test procedure exposed that fact that they were over rating their hp claims on some cars? Or how do you see it differently?
08-17-2005, 04:39 PM
#20
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it means they were following one standard before and the new standard is different. so they adjusted teh published hp figures to the new standard. thats all it means.
standard change
standard change
engines tested under the new 2-stage system will list horsepower and torque figures with a new qualifier: SAE “Certified.”
In some past cases, manufacturers have taken advantage of J1349's loopholes to generate horsepower ratings that could be achieved under the rarefied conditions of an ideal testing environment — but were unlikely to be replicated in the real world. -snip-
These stricter definitions, Lancaster says, close J1349's loopholes and ensure “a realistic condition the customer will actually see in the vehicle.”
These stricter definitions, Lancaster says, close J1349's loopholes and ensure “a realistic condition the customer will actually see in the vehicle.”
In concert with the updates to the J1349 engine-testing standard comes an important new component: a voluntary test procedure — witnessed by an independent third party — that must be undertaken to earn the new “Certified” rating. The voluntary certification test — SAE standard J2723 — was finalized March 31.
08-17-2005, 04:54 PM
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What you say maybe true, but that's not what the article is implying.
To the average consumer, the revised hp ratings make it look like the car maker's claims were inflated. And in fact, isn't that why there's been an on-going raging debate over the RX-8's hp pretty much since the car's US intro? Oh, but Mazda just uses a different testing standard, I get it.
Asians oversell horsepower
Toyota, Honda inflated claims of engine muscle; new tests force automakers to come clean with buyers.
Toyota, Honda inflated claims of engine muscle; new tests force automakers to come clean with buyers.
08-17-2005, 05:02 PM
#22
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no it had nothing to do with testing procedures. mazda made an error in publishing the figure they published. it had nothing to do with the procedure they used. it has to dp with the emissons changes made at port AND MNAO marketing not listening to the engineers.
08-17-2005, 05:37 PM
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You're in a very literal mood today, can't you tell I was just being sarcastic? 
EDIT: Oh & btw, aside from the US emissions issue and related power re-rating, Mazda still claims 250 ps in Japan. And many Japanese are just as skeptical about this 250 ps figure as we are about our US claimed 238 hp.
EDIT: Oh & btw, aside from the US emissions issue and related power re-rating, Mazda still claims 250 ps in Japan. And many Japanese are just as skeptical about this 250 ps figure as we are about our US claimed 238 hp.
Last edited by RX-Hachi; 08-17-2005 at 05:44 PM.