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Anyone driven an Audi A3 yet?

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Old 05-20-2005, 08:07 AM
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Anyone driven an Audi A3 yet?

Tempting... 200HP/31MPG/usable hatchback

On the other hand, it's still the VW/Audi family that I've hated for the past 6 years of my POS VW GTI. If the AWD version were available now and priced like the FWD version is, I'd be all over it. Or if it were available with the turbodiesel like in Europe, for nearly 50MPG.

Anyone here driven it and have any thoughts?
Old 05-20-2005, 03:56 PM
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Is it already stateside? I haven't seen any around yet.
Old 05-20-2005, 06:46 PM
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What's the top of the line version called? I know only Europe gets it, but I remember reading a while back that it would have AWD and a 300hp+ turbo charged 6 cylinder.

EDIT: Just found it. It's called the RS-3. Here's an article and a few prototype pics...

From Autocar...

The most powerful, most capable – and most desirable – variant of Audi’s latest A3 has finally been granted the production green light by the German car maker’s chairman, Martin Winterkorn.

Set to receive RS3 badges, Ingolstadt’s new 350bhp rocket will bypass the traditional hot-hatch brigade and land directly in the territory occupied today by the Subaru Impreza WRX, at last providing Europe with a worthy rival to the iconic rally-bred Japanese saloon.

Engineers at Audi’s Sport division – the same team responsible for the ’Bahn-storming RS4 and RS6 – have already started developing the new car, which is planned to reach the UK by mid-2006 in hatchback and Sportback estate bodystyles, as previewed by our exclusive images.

But before the new £35,000 über-hatch lands here, Audi plans to unleash a milder S3 model running a naturally aspirated 280bhp version of the same 3.2-litre V6. Aimed at cars like the Ford Focus RS, Alfa Romeo 147 GTA and Volkswagen Golf R32, it will arrive in 2005 priced around £26,000, according to well-placed Audi sources.

Yet while the S3’s launch is eagerly anticipated on these shores, it is the more aggressive RS3 that will make the bigger headlines. With a state-of-the-art turbocharged powerplant and an advanced four-wheel drive system capable of constantly varying the drive to each axle, it promises to deliver supercar-slaying performance for the price of a well-kitted executive car.

Recent hot Audi models have been big on stealth, with little more than a handful of styling modifications hinting at the huge performance that lies beneath. The RS3 continues this tradition with an inherently muscular but hardly flamboyant appearance that’s dominated by Audi’s imposing new shield grille positioned up front, as seen on the recently introduced A6 and A8 W12. It will quickly become a trademark of all Audi models.

Among the changes over the standard A3 are a deep spoiler with a trio of large air ducts, more heavily flared wheelarches, wider side sills under the doors, an additional spoiler atop the rear hatch and an extended rear bumper that’s designed to draw air more cleanly from underneath.

Insiders say that these styling modifications – whose aerodynamic characteristics have been carefully honed in Audi’s own wind tunnel – might be subtle, but they all serve a particular purpose, rather than merely enhancing the looks.

These purposeful looks are backed up by the sort of firepower rarely seen in the hatchback ranks. Under the RS3’s bonnet lurks a heavily refettled version of the Volkswagen Group’s 24-valve 3.2-litre V6, as used in today’s top-of-the-range A3.

Mounted transversely, the compact 15-degree unit has been upgraded with the inclusion of Audi’s advanced FSI (fuel stratified injection) direct-injection tech and, in keeping with earlier models to wear the illustrious RS badge, it is also turbocharged.

The result is an appreciable 100bhp jump over the output of today’s 3.2-litre V6, highly placed Audi sources confirm. They hint the upcoming RS3 is likely to serve a tantalising 350bhp in final production trim. With a target weight of 1560kg, this means a power-to-weight ratio close to 225bhp per tonne – an impressive 30bhp per tonne more than Subaru claims for the Japanese-spec Impreza WRX STi. Torque should also be prodigious, swelling from an already impressive 250lb ft to more than 335lb ft.

It won’t only be the engine that places the RS3 at the top of enthusiasts’ shopping lists. In keeping with recent fast Audis, the new car will adopt a six-speed DSG dual-clutch gearbox with a paddle nudge-shift manual over-ride.

Drive is channeled through an electronically controlled multi-plate Haldex clutch. It apportions power to all four wheels, continuously alternating the split from zero to 100 per cent for optimum traction regardless of the conditions.

With the advanced driveline dishing up such high levels of traction, acceleration should be at least as good as that of the giant-killing Impreza WRX. It’s still too early for final figures, but an Autocar engineering source privy to early technical data revealed the RS3 will receive a 3.6:1 final drive ratio and should run 0-60mph in under 5.0sec – almost 2.0sec faster than today’s fastest A3.

Top speed will be limited to 155mph, like all of Audi’s high-end models. Without the restrictor, the true figure is said to be closer to 170mph.

Forming the basis of the RS3 is a reworked version of the Volkswagen Group’s versatile PQ35 Golf chassis. Suspension geometry remains the same as lesser A3 models, but engineers have introduced new levels of tautness to the MacPherson strut (front) and multi-link (rear) suspension.

The changes are predictable and in line with recent hot Audi models: stiffer springs and dampers, less compliant bushes, beefed up anti-roll bars, reduced ride height and widened tracks. Underneath the flared wheelarches lurk purposeful 235/40 profile tyres on 18-inch alloys.

The A3’s electrically assisted power steering will be carried over without any significant changes, but the brakes will be heavily upgraded with a similar disc and caliper pairing as that seen on the discontinued RS4, according to Autocar sources.

Inside, the RS3 will pamper its occupants with a high level of luxury by traditional fast hatchback standards. Among the items prospective buyers can expect are heavily contoured Recaro sports seats offering a higher level of lateral support than standard A3 pews, alongside typical RS elements such as unique instrument graphics and subtle changes in the dashboard trim.

Our artist’s impressions show a three-door RS3 hatchback, but this summer’s new five-door Sportback estate will also come in hot RS3 form (right). The Sportback range will be unveiled this summer and go on sale in the autumn. It’s designed more as a lifestyle estate than an out-and-out load lugger. However, with a boot of around 400 litres, it offers an extra 50 litres of space compared to the hatchback. It shares a wheelbase with the three-door, but adds an extra 100mm in the rear overhang.

The S3 hot hatch will be assembled at Audi’s sprawling Ingolstadt headquarters, while the more potent RS3 will be built at the firm’s increasingly active Sport division base in Neckarsulm – the same facility responsible for the assembly of the RS4 and RS6 and a limited run of Lamborghini Gallardos.

Production volumes aren’t yet decided, but it appears that Audi’s earlier strategy of restricting RS numbers will be dropped for higher volumes – and therefore higher profits.
http://www.wheels24.co.za/Wheels24/N...522144,00.html

http://www.germancarfans.com/spyphot...02/audi/1.html









Last edited by Steiner; 05-20-2005 at 06:56 PM.
Old 05-20-2005, 07:01 PM
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There's also the older S3 that makes around 220hp from a 4 cylinder turbo and also an A3 3.2 Quattro that makes around 245hp.
Old 05-20-2005, 08:53 PM
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drove one

my local dealership had a demo version there, basically no options... the turbo is very smooth and pulls strong, i would compare the performance speed wise to a jetta gli, but a bit faster expecially at speed. cornering was decent, again this didnt have a performance package i believe, most dealerships have a demo availalble, you should go check em out
Old 05-20-2005, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Devil
Is it already stateside? I haven't seen any around yet.
I passed 2 truckloads of them, still in shrinkwrap, last week. So, yes, some are here. I'd be surprised to find the exact combination I'd want, though, so I'd probably have to order.
Old 05-20-2005, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
also an A3 3.2 Quattro that makes around 245hp.
That's what I'd really want, but it's not coming to the US until 2006 and will be godawful expensive - way more than I'd want to spend.
Old 05-20-2005, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JM1FE
That's what I'd really want, but it's not coming to the US until 2006 and will be godawful expensive - way more than I'd want to spend.
The turbo 4 is better, they take very well to mods and are lighter. All it would take is a $400 chip and you're putting out similar numbers and have a faster car.
Old 05-20-2005, 09:20 PM
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Exterior:
B5B5 Arctic White

Interior:
MB Black leather seating surfaces

Model and Powertrain: 8PA52C A3 6-speed manual FrontTrak® $24,740

Packages:
PPD Premium package $2,025
PAW Cold weather package $700

Individual options:
DEST Destination Charge $720
3FB Open sky system $1,100
4X4 Rear side airbags* $350
8JD Xenon headlights $500

Customer Order options:
PNN Audi Navigation plus¹ $1,950


Base MSRP: $24,740 Price as configured: $32,085

------------------------------

The white paint and Nav force it to be a special order... I could leave off the nav to get it to $30k MSRP. If I were lucky enough to get invoice pricing (yeah, right, on such a new model) it would be the same $28k-ish as an rx-8, white, touring package.
Old 05-20-2005, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
The turbo 4 is better, they take very well to mods and are lighter. All it would take is a $400 chip and you're putting out similar numbers and have a faster car.
But Quattro, though.....
Old 05-20-2005, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by JM1FE
But Quattro, though.....
I'm sure there will be a Quattro 4 cylinder turbo, they would be silly not to offer one.
Old 05-21-2005, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
I'm sure there will be a Quattro 4 cylinder turbo, they would be silly not to offer one.
Silly, yes, but in the US 2.0T = FWD and 3.2 V6 = Quattro. The 3.2Q won't arrive until 2006, and we also won't get the diesel at all.

They may offer different combinations in about 3 years, but I'm looking more in the next couple of weeks timeframe .
Old 05-21-2005, 10:43 PM
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I've driven the 2.0L version at a tuning shop event that involved a bunch of VW folks. This one was the FSI 2.0L FWD version, which I thought made decent power and had a good flat TQ curve, I didn't get to test then handling much, but it seemed to be fairly standard VW, which isn't bad, not to much roll, crisp steering etc... ride quality was nice, and the interior was first rate. an AWD version would be interesting.
Old 05-22-2005, 12:24 PM
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For that kind of money I would just get an STi and say blah to luxury. Audi/VW look too similar, not enough visual difference besides the badge.
Old 05-22-2005, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by brillo
I've driven the 2.0L version at a tuning shop event that involved a bunch of VW folks. This one was the FSI 2.0L FWD version, which I thought made decent power and had a good flat TQ curve, I didn't get to test then handling much, but it seemed to be fairly standard VW, which isn't bad, not to much roll, crisp steering etc... ride quality was nice, and the interior was first rate. an AWD version would be interesting.
Yeah, the HP/Tq curve is supposed to be about max from 1800 - 5000 rpm! The steering is the electromechanical type like the RX-8.
Old 05-22-2005, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by KC_Prelude
For that kind of money I would just get an STi and say blah to luxury. Audi/VW look too similar, not enough visual difference besides the badge.
For that kind of money I would just get an A3 and say blah to rice. Impreza/STi look too similar, not enough visual difference besides the wing.
Old 05-30-2005, 11:47 PM
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I drove an A3 back to back with an A4. Former loaded, including sport package. Latter did not have sport package. Both had 2.0 T engine, manual transmission. A4 had quattro.

The A3 felt much more nimble and was considerably more fun to drive. Less weight no doubt helped, but I also liked its steering better. Hard to put the power down in turns, for obvious reasons. New engine a huge improvement over the 1.8 T, with much less boost lag, smoother. The sport package includes seats with much better lateral support.

Among hatches I find the Mazda3 a much better value than the A3. Not as powerful, but just as fun to drive and more reliable for a lot less money. The Mazdaspeed version will close the power gap. The Audi has a nicer interior, but even then it's about VW level, not as nice as other Audis.

And vs. the RX-8? Unless you need the extra cargo volume of the A3, the RX-8 blows it away. In terms of all-around performance and driving feel the A3 simply isn't a sports car. Rear seat room is pretty much a draw.
Old 05-30-2005, 11:56 PM
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No 2-door hatch? That's no good.
Old 05-31-2005, 12:24 AM
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Thanks. Good info. I've been pokeing at the A3 forum at VWVortex/Fourtitude to try to get some info as well.



Originally Posted by mkaresh
Among hatches I find the Mazda3 a much better value than the A3. Not as powerful, but just as fun to drive and more reliable for a lot less money. The Mazdaspeed version will close the power gap.
The current Mazda3 doesn't have traction control or stability control available. It also doesn't even have an LSD, which makes it basically a 1-(front)wheel-drive. 160HP is pretty far from the A3's 200HP, and the A3 makes max torque from 1800 - 5500 RPM. If the Mazdaspeed version can be had (a) in my choice of colour, (b) with my choice of equipment, (c) with TCS/DSC, (d) in a hatchback, and (e) with the rumoured 200+HP and AWD, then it would win. I don't have confidence in all that happening - even the SP23 version right now is limited in colour and equipment choices.

The biggest problem is that the the Mazdaspeed3 won't be available for a long time, and I'm getting close to needing something really soon.... my a/c compressor is dying, my cat/muffler are rattling and starting to give off the sulpher smell for the first time ever, and second gear is grinding and getting clunky again like it did before the last time the transmission grenaded itself . I don't feel like waiting for something that's just vapourware right now when I can duck several thousand $ by replacing the car sooner.


Originally Posted by mkaresh
And vs. the RX-8? Unless you need the extra cargo volume of the A3, the RX-8 blows it away. In terms of all-around performance and driving feel the A3 simply isn't a sports car. Rear seat room is pretty much a draw.
I do need the extra cargo room, that's part of the attraction. When we take the RX-8 anywhere, it's frustrating as hell to not be able to fit my regular duffle bag in the trunk. Even something like foamcore art board is a PITA in the 8 because of the divided rear interior - in my car it can rest on the floorboard across the back seat, but not in the 8.

My big issue is fuel economy - hear me out on this:

Assumptions:
  • Gas at $2.25/gallon
  • 500miles/week MINIMUM for commuting, not counting weekend personal stuff
  • 4.3 weeks/month (52/12=4.333)
  • My car gets 24MPG commuting (measured over several years)
  • RX-8 gets 18MPG commuting (tested, safe real-world assumption)
  • Audi A3 gets 28MPG (claimed 31, knocking about 10% off for estimate)
Given these assumptions....

  • My car costs $201.56/month in commuting gas.
  • The RX-8 would cost $268.75/month in commuting gas.
  • The A3 would cost $172.77/month in commuting gas (@28mpg)
  • OR
  • The A3 would cost $156.05/month in commuting gas (@31mpg, if I were lucky)
For everyone who says '...it's just a few bucks more each fillup...' I'd like to point out that the difference from the A3 to the RX-8 is between $96 - $112 per month for me. That's $1200/year. That's $6000 over 5 years. I love the RX-8, but damn.... would you have bought it if your payments were $100/month higher? Would you have paid $6000 more for it than you did? That's real money to me. Especially when you factor in the non-commuting personal stuff, which only increases the fuel expense. My g/f's 8 only has 5800 miles on it since last July, so the fuel economy is irrelevant to her. My car has 5800 miles in the last 2.5 months - totally different story.

I'm gonna try to test-drive an A3 tomorrow, so I can at least get my 33 free iTunes vouchers before the promo ends. :D
Old 05-31-2005, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by therm8
No 2-door hatch? That's no good.
Not in the US. The VW GTI will fill that niche.... next year. Too late for me.
Old 05-31-2005, 10:04 AM
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I'm interested in reading your own evaluation of the car.

Could someone please clue me in to Audi's EDL (electronic differential lock)? My read of the technical description suggests this is just a fancy name for traction control. It operates by braking a slipping wheel, not by doing anything to the differential.

In my test drive of the A3 the EDL seems to help put power down in a straight line, but in turns you're back to one wheel. The Mazda3 doesn't have so much torque, so traction is less of an issue. The Madzaspeed version will of course be a different story.

While I'd always get stability control if it's offered, I'm not sure why you put so much value on it. In my experience it's much more valuable on a rear-drive car. Especially those that like to rotate, like the RX-8. But the A3 is front-wheel-drive and you're in Atlanta. I've been driving front-wheel-drive cars in Michigan for years without an incident. And I'm a fairly aggressive driver when it comes to taking corners--tires tend to last me about 25,000 miles.

The last time I had a car swap ends on me was a 1985 Escort on a snowy road where I had to hit the brakes and turn at the same time. Yes, recipe for disaster. Still got out of it with the cost of a new tire. Today's front-drive chassis tend to be far more stable. My Protege5's chassis is hardly state of the art, but the only way I've been able to make it spin on a slick surface is by yanking the hand brake. (Did a little experimenting in a parking lot.) Release the brake and the rear end snaps back into line.

Stability control is also supposed to help with understeer, but in my experience its abilities here are far more limited than they are with oversteer. Anyone have a different experience?

Don't get me wrong, the A3 is fun to drive, more fun in my opinion than the A4. And the sport seats (which I'd want if I got the car) are the most supportive I've experienced in any Audi save the S4. I liked the car much more than I expected to. But add any options and the price gets high.

I'd be very surprised if the A3 returned 28 MPG in real-world driving. The same 24 you've been getting seems more likely. The A3's EPA ratings are actually one MPG worse than the GTI's.

Finally, I'm surprised that after your VW experience you're ready for a repeat. My sister recently traded a Jetta 1.8T for a Subaru Forester. Just couldn't take the constant problems anymore. I recently located a 2004 S4 Avant with 29k miles with a $35k asking price. Tempting, but the reliability and maintenance scare me. Of course, it's only because everyone is scared by these issues that the price falls so quickly.

Last edited by mkaresh; 05-31-2005 at 10:19 AM.
Old 05-31-2005, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by JM1FE
Not in the US. The VW GTI will fill that niche.... next year. Too late for me.
But the GTI is ugly , and unlikely to come with DSG.
Old 05-31-2005, 12:49 PM
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A3 gas mileage

There is absolutely no way an A3 with that much horsepower is going to get 28 mpg, especially with quattro b/c of drivetrain loss.

Case in point, a 2005 Volkswagen Golf with a 2.0L engine, 115 hp, and manual trans gets 24 city and 31 highway, http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byMPG.htm. This is reasonable indicator of the VW/Audi/Porsche vehicles since they are the same conglomerate.

The next thing you fail to mention is the difference between the insurance for an RX-8 and the A3. Take the average $1,744.00 insurance cost for a premium compact car, and compare this to the RX-8 average of $1,530.00, http://auto.consumerguide.com/.

Audi is extremely well skilled at hiking up prices for options and selling well above MSRP, a comparatively equipped RX-8 will be at least $4,000-5,000 less. What your basically getting is a slightly tuned down Volkwagen R32, with an Audi price $$$$. Unless your deluded thinking concludes that the Audi A3 and VW R32 are comparatively priced? Edmunds managed to buy an R32 for $30,635 in their test, and an RX-8 for $31,653.
Old 05-31-2005, 07:38 PM
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Angry

Wow... I don't even know where to start with this. Did you actually read anything I posted before? I don't know what kind of math you're doing, or what you think you're comparing.

Originally Posted by Slick8
There is absolutely no way an A3 with that much horsepower is going to get 28 mpg, especially with quattro b/c of drivetrain loss.
There are actual drivers of A3's (which you are not) on another forum who say otherwise. Besides, (first indication you don't know what you're talking about) IT'S NOT A QUATTRO!


Originally Posted by Slick8
Case in point, a 2005 Volkswagen Golf with a 2.0L engine, 115 hp, and manual trans gets 24 city and 31 highway, http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byMPG.htm. This is reasonable indicator of the VW/Audi/Porsche vehicles since they are the same conglomerate.
OMG.... you're quoting the Federal city & highway test results for an engine that has no relationship at all to the 2.0T FSI in the A3, same manufacturer or not. That FSI engine is new to the US for the '06 model. So, since you like the federal numbers for an *unrelated* engine, how about the federal numbers for the EXACT engine: 31 highway with the manual transmission, 30 with the DSG automatic. Your argument is specious.



Originally Posted by Slick8
The next thing you fail to mention is the difference between the insurance for an RX-8 and the A3. Take the average $1,744.00 insurance cost for a premium compact car, and compare this to the RX-8 average of $1,530.00, http://auto.consumerguide.com/.
Simple subtraction shows this to be $214, again your numbers are NOT specific to the A3, so I don't know what you're trying to prove. Particularly when I already gave a detailed explanation of the fuel economy savings. So if I save $1200/year on gas, and spend an extra (maybe) $200 on insurance, this puts me to $1000 to the good.

Originally Posted by Slick8
Audi is extremely well skilled at hiking up prices for options and selling well above MSRP, a comparatively equipped RX-8 will be at least $4,000-5,000 less.
WTF?!?!? I'm extremely well skilled at NOT PAYING OVER MSRP. I've compared the prices, and could not afford an RX-8 GT for what I could get an A3/Sport/Convenience/ColdWeather/Roof. People are getting $800-$1000 off MSRP easily, and in some markets people have actually gotten them at invoice (SoCal).

Originally Posted by Slick8
What your basically getting is a slightly tuned down Volkwagen R32, with an Audi price $$$$. Unless your deluded thinking concludes that the Audi A3 and VW R32 are comparatively priced? Edmunds managed to buy an R32 for $30,635 in their test, and an RX-8 for $31,653.


The R32 is a 3.2 litre 240HP VR6 with Haldex AWD. The A3 is a 2.0T FSI 200HP 4-cyl with FWD. The R32 with cloth was the $30,635, with leather it was more like $32,800, plus destination, and it *was* a vehicle frequently marked up well over MSRP. Note: *was*. YOU CAN'T GET THEM NOW. They're made out of unobtanium. Only 5000 for the US market, total. They sold out long ago, except for rumors of a couple at a dealer in Colorado who's marked them up about $7,000 over sticker. If I could get a brand new R32 in silver or red, with leather, for $30k, I would.

I asked for comments about the A3 from people who had looked at/driven them. Not for your assesment as to the lucidity of my thinking. You're clearly the one who's deluded, having made not a single accurate or valid point. Now go away.
Old 05-31-2005, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mkaresh
I'm interested in reading your own evaluation of the car.
I drove one today, base model. I'm still mulling over how I feel about it, which is to say, not "OMG I've got to have one!". I'll post about it later. Maybe I'll try to drive a sport package one at another dealer tomorrow before posting.

Originally Posted by mkaresh
Could someone please clue me in to Audi's EDL (electronic differential lock)? My read of the technical description suggests this is just a fancy name for traction control. It operates by braking a slipping wheel, not by doing anything to the differential.
It's not really traction control. Their 'traction control' is ASC - anti-slip control, which operates like the TCS on the RX-8. EDL doesn't have anything to do with slippage on the surface - it simply prevents there being a difference between the two pulling wheels. My GTI has EDL but no ASC (it's a 1999.5 model - ASC wasn't added until 2000) On a slippery surface, with EDL, it will still slip. However, the two wheels will both be 'locked' to the same speed, preventing one from spinning away while the other sits idle. It's like an active, on-demand LSD, and only works below 35MPH or so. You're right - at regular speeds it does nothing, (the only real LSD is if you've installed an aftermarket LSD like a Quaife). On snow and ice at low speeds it's great.


Originally Posted by mkaresh
While I'd always get stability control if it's offered, I'm not sure why you put so much value on it. In my experience it's much more valuable on a rear-drive car. Especially those that like to rotate, like the RX-8. But the A3 is front-wheel-drive and you're in Atlanta. I've been driving front-wheel-drive cars in Michigan for years without an incident. And I'm a fairly aggressive driver when it comes to taking corners--tires tend to last me about 25,000 miles.
1. If a $14k Scion has it standard, I don't see why I should pay more to get less, so I'm being demanding.

2. I'm mostly in the metro Philly area right now, so I see a lot of crappy roads during the winter.


Originally Posted by mkaresh
I'd be very surprised if the A3 returned 28 MPG in real-world driving. The same 24 you've been getting seems more likely. The A3's EPA ratings are actually one MPG worse than the GTI's.
You must be looking at the 1.8T GTI. I have a VR6 - the 174HP 16-valve version, not the 200HP 24-valve more recent version. The newer one gets *better* economy than mine does. I've gotten 20/24 since I replaced the MAF sensor at 55K (shipped with a bad one from the factory, 6 O2 sensors replaced unsuccessfully trying to stop a CEL, finally replaced the MAF sensor out of pocket since it was 5K beyond warranty and they wouldn't cover it, despite the history. bastards.)


Originally Posted by mkaresh
Finally, I'm surprised that after your VW experience you're ready for a repeat. My sister recently traded a Jetta 1.8T for a Subaru Forester. Just couldn't take the constant problems anymore. I recently located a 2004 S4 Avant with 29k miles with a $35k asking price. Tempting, but the reliability and maintenance scare me.
Yeah, I'm kicking myself for considering it, but it's just an idea....

Last edited by JM1FE; 05-31-2005 at 10:28 PM. Reason: typo


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