8 Maniac

iTrader: (1)

lmao @ "optional ugly"

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

LMAO !!!!

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

so did anyone actually have the huevos to call or you guys just going to sit around complaining about it?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I'll call tomorrow, shitz

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

phone recording or it never happened!

MTLbroker

Unfortunately, these types of xenophobic rants will increase as the recession/depression deepens. It is simply lashing out and should be ignored. It will spread to other sectors and I foresee a rise in trade protectionism.

While counterintuitive, protectionism will actually exacerbate the economic decline. This is no time to erect trade barriers - either legislated by government nor phychological trade barriers fuelled by false patriotism. Remember, there are a lot of people who think buy American means shopping at Wal-Mart.

limepro

I am not going to bash neither Japanese or American cars, but in the recent years everything has been changing. I am not a big fan of Ford but i do like GM, with me not liking Ford i will still defend them. The biggest problem with the US automakers is the Union, it costs the japanese approx. 39 dollars per hour to build each car where it takes one of the big 3 approx. 79. This is killing them but lets look at some facts for reliability and maybe people should do some research for themselves before they start saying they suck because they have passed toyota in reliability and have less recalls and problems.

Here are some facts from the WEB that don't get the press they deserve - next time you hear negative comments about domestic this may come in handy it also has the sites that the info came from as well. Pay particular attention to #13 - It says a lot

1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?
a. Germany
b. Japan
c. Korea
d. United States

2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?
a. Chrysler
b. Ford
c. GM
d. Nissan
e. Toyota
f. Volkswagen

3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.
a. Acura, BMW, Cadillac (all luxury makes)
b. Honda, Mercury, Nissan (all non-luxury makes)
c. Acura (lux), Chevrolet (non-lux), BMW (lux), Mazda (non-lux)

4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?
a. Accord (Honda)
b. Altima (Nissan)
c. Camry (Toyota)
d. Malibu (Chevrolet)

5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?
a. Avalon (Toyota)
b. Grand Prix (Pontiac)
c. Sable (Mercury)

6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?
a. Dakota (Dodge)
b. Ranger (Ford)
c. Tacoma (Toyota)

7. Which car is the most economical overall?
a. Aveo (Chevrolet)
b. Fit (Honda)
c. Prius (Toyota)

8. Which car did the LA Times describe as “a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti”?
a. A6 (Audi)
b. CTS (Cadillac)
c. RL (Acura)

9. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 “Green Car of the Year” award?
a. Chevrolet
b. Honda
c. Toyota

10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the “North American Car of the Year” for 2007?
a. Aura (Saturn)
b. Camry (Toyota)
c. Fit (Honda)

11. Which car won the same award for 2008?
a. Accord (Honda)
b. Altima coupe (Nissan)
c. Malibu (Chevrolet)

12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in October 2007 because of mounting quality problems?
a. Chrysler
b. Ford
c. General Motors
d. Hyundai
e. Toyota
f. Volkswagen

ANSWERS:

1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?

Answer: United States.
Per J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study, Mercury and Cadillac are in the top 3, along with Lexus. And in 2007, Buick was tied with Lexus for the top spot.


2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?

Answer: Volkswagen.
According to Business Week, Volkswagen had the most recalls at this time a year ago. The second worst was Toyota.


3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.

a. Answer : Cadillac (better than both Acura and BMW)
b. Answer: Mercury (better than both Honda and Nissan)
c. Answer: Chevrolet (better than Acura, BMW, and Mazda)
This is according to J.D. Power’s Initial Quality Survey.


4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?

Answer: The Chevrolet Malibu has better initial quality than any competitor, including the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima. The Ford Fusion also beat all 3 Japanese competitors.
This too is from the J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey, which also reveals that above average are American brands Mercury, Ford, Cadillac, Chevrolet , Pontiac, Lincoln, and Buick. Below average are import brands Acura, Kia, Nissan, BMW, Mazda, VW, Subaru, and Scion (and several others).


5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?

Answer: Again per J.D. Power, the highest quality large car is the Pontiac Grand Prix, beating the Toyota Avalon. Two other Detroit cars that beat the Avalon are the Mercury Sable and Mercury Grand Marquis.


6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?

Answer: The Dodge Dakota has the best quality for midsize pickups, proving that Chrysler too can beat the imports. Both the Dakota and the Ford Ranger beat the Toyota Tacoma.


7. Which car is the most economical overall?

Answer: Per Edmunds.com, the premier automotive analysis site, the most economical car in America, taking into account not only mileage but all costs, is the Chevrolet Aveo. The Honda Fit is #3 and the Toyota Prius is a distant #34.


8. Which car did the Los Angeles Times describe as “a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti”?

Answer: “Cadillac makes a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti, and that car is the 2008 CTS. No other car in the mass market dares so much as this expressive and audacious bit of automotive avant-gardism.” Dan Neil, LA Times.


9.. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 “Green Car of the Year” award?

Answer: The Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid is the winner of this award.. How could a full-size SUV defeat the media darling Toyota Prius? Read the link below and you will discover, “What’s equally eye-opening is that the Tahoe’s 21 mpg city fuel efficiency rating is the same as that of the city EPA rating for the four-cylinder Toyota Camry sedan. ”

Did you catch that? A huge, full-size SUV from Chevrolet that gets the same city mileage as a 4-cylinder Toyota Camry!! Chevy obtained this remarkable achievement through the use of its 2-mode hybrid system, a technology that Toyota does not have.


10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the “North American Car of the Year” for 2007?

Answer: Not only was the Saturn Aura picked by the automotive press corps as better than the Honda Fit and the Toyota Camry, “When a panel of 47 journalists named the Saturn Aura the North American Car of the Year over the Toyota Camry, the vote wasn't even close, 205-89.” Chicago Tribune, 1/15/07


11. Which car won the same award for 2008?

Answer: GM again crushed the Japanese competition in 2008 when the Malibu received 190 votes to the Honda Accord’s 95. The Accord actually came in 3rd since GM’s other finalist, the Cadillac CTS, received 165 votes.

12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in October 2007 because of mounting quality problems?
Answer: Toyota’s much publicized quality problems resulted in Consumer Reports actually removing from their recommended vehicles list the Lexus GS luxury car, Camry V6 sedan, and Tundra pickup. This demotion occurred in October 2007.

13.If you are one of the many Americans who gave up on Detroit’s cars because of a bad experience many years ago, it’s time to rethink your position. Rethink Detroit.

Detroit automakers: 79 U.S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.
Foreign automakers: 33 U..S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.


OK after all those facts, lets go into if only GM went bankrupt.

Nearly 3 million jobs would be lost in the first year alone – with another 2.5 million to follow over the next two years
Personal income in the United States would drop by more than $150.7 billion in the first year
The cost to local, state, and federal governments could reach $156.4 billion over three years in lost taxes, and unemployment and health care assistance
Domestic automobile production would more than likely fall to zero – even by international producers, due to supplier bankruptcies

longpath

iTrader: (1)

While you did a superb job of documenting all of the data you presented prior to this point, I'm wondering if you could also share how you came up with these figures and what the baseline assumptions are. Did you assume that GM would simply be sold off for its assets, or did you assume that it would be broken off into component companies that would continue as new going concerns?

I'm using the recent airline bankruptcies as my model of likely results of a GM bankruptcy.

limepro

if GM goes bankrupt they lose the union (which is a great thing) but they would have to close down the plants and buy out all the dealerships. this would then let them restructure without the union but in the meantime those people would be out jobs. Without the union would the workers want to go back to their old jobs for probably half the pay? if not oh well new people will fill the spots but it will take months maybe years to get everything back up and running. Then you have the problem of will people buy from a one bankrupt company? as history shows the answer is no.

Potentiated

Auto loan package expected to die. Now what?

Kane

iTrader: (1)

It is called capitalism; it will work itself out.

Potentiated

Is it also called chicken mcnuggets? Ok, I changed it.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

At the risk of getting banned; Political is a no no; I'll respond.

Don't blame a party - or the Gov in General really; the fact is that they are a bad investment. Whether it is my personal money or my taxes...until UAW gets off of their high horse and decides to be competitive... then it is what it is.

OSHA replaced the Unions a long time ago - now it is time for them to realize it. As for CEO's taking in zillions while the company drowns... blame the stockholders for not rising up and saying "Hell No". Together, it is a recipe for disaster.

tunerwannab

iTrader: (1)

alfy28

[B]"Rejected auto bailout causes Asian stock markets to tumble
Auto stocks get hammered
by Michael Gauthier
December 12, 2008 1:07 PM
Filed Under: American, Asian, Corporate/Financial, Industry
Asian stock markets were rattled this morning in the wake of the US Senate's decision to reject the $15 billion dollar government loan package for Detroit's big three automakers. In early morning trading Japan's Nikkei 225 stock average slide more than 5.6 percent and Hong Kong's Hang Seng index tumbled 6.9 percent. Markets in South Korea, Singapore, Australia and India also took a plunge, setting up what could be a terrible day for Europe and the US.

As expected auto stocks were hammered, Japanese automaker Toyota was off by 10.6 percent while Honda faired slightly worse at 12.9 percent. The Koreans weren't spared from the carnage either, Hyundai slid 8.5 percent and Kia was down by 8.4 percent.

The blame is being placed on bailout talks that collapsed between Republicans and Democrats in the Senate, as the several Republicans raised objections to the bill passed in the House of Representatives. One of the key sticking points was the lack of UAW concessions in pay, a move that would have brought their wages more in line with those paid by Japanese automakers.

One of key factors that has investors concerned is that many suppliers make parts for more than one automaker, if one of the supplier's major buyers defaulted on payments it could force the supplier to shutdown or layoff employees which could effect production of products that other automakers need. This could lead to a ripple effect which could cause bankruptcies to spread across the whole industry causing both carmakers and suppliers to go under, and prolonging the global economic downturn.

This creates a bleak picture ahead of Wall Street's opening today as the Dow futures are predicting a loss of 3.3 percent. Adding more pain to a string of bad news is that the US dollar tumbled even future against foreign currencies, and new unemployment benefit applications surged to their highest levels since November 1982"[/B]

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9081212....kets-to-tumble

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

BURN BABY BURN ! Muhahahaha !