8 is gone - Next car is?
 

If you have read my thread over in the rx-8 discussion forum you will know why I am posting this. Basically, I got into an accident and the car is most likely totaled so I am starting to do research looking into the new cars. I am a college student and I will be paying for this myself. The car I am looking for is good performance, gas mileage, reliable and fun to drive, so the list is this.

350z, S2K, STI, WRX, SRT4

Price range for used
350Z:~23-2400
S2K:~17-1800
STI:~24-2500
WRX:~17-1800
SRT4:~16-1700

350Z/STI is definatly the most expensive out of the choices, the others are near the same price as each other.

MPG
They all have around the same MPG which is intersting considering the 350Z has the biggest engine (V6 3.5L) but all MPG is around 20-22/26-30 All of these are better than what my 8 got, around 16-17.5MPG shifting @ 3.5K in probably 70city/30highway.

Style (most attractive to worse according to me)

350Z
S2K
WRX
SRT4
STI

I know the WRX/STI body is not appealing, but don't know, the older WRX's are not that bad looking as they don't have an STI spoiler nor a HUGE hood scoop. 350z/S2K are nice to look at (although not as close to the looks of the 8). SRT4's are ugly stock, but can look nice if you work on them, a lot better than the STI's. I absolutly HATE the STI's interior with the blue suede like material, unless I get that color blue, which I am not, I want to get a black car.

Performance:

350Z (287hp/274lbs)
S2K (240hp/162lbs)
WRX (227hp/217lbs)
SRT4 (215hp/245lbs)
STI (300hp/300lbs)

Basically, I would love to drive a turbo'd car because after this accident, I highly doubt my dad would want me to add an after market turbo, so if I got one with a stock turbo already (sti, wrx, srt4), he wouldn't know I'm adding a turbo kit.

The STI is probably the quickest out of the group considering the HP/TQ and weight of the car. The STI and Z are equal in curb weight. I do not exactly know the rating of quickest to slowest but this would be my guess.

STI
350Z
S2K
WRX
SRT4

If anyone has any other information on this, please let me know if this guess is true or things would be different. This is considering the car stock. Even with stock turbos on the sti, wrx, srt4, are they able to keep up with the N/A 350Z (bigger engine) and the Vtec S2K?

Also looking into this is which car has the best increase in HP from just adding usual mods. I know (and I'm sure you know) with our 8's, no mods really gave me increase in HP, the biggest was my high flow cat/exhause combo which was around 8-10HP. My friend said the SRT4 is the cheapest to mod to gain the most HP. Anyone want to open discussion on this? I will be modding whichever car I get and I would like to have a good hp/$ ratio

So basically, I would love to drive a stock turbo'd car, but it seems like all the stock turbo'd cars are not too attractive to me but if I had to chose, I'd go either SRT4/WRX (it's a throw up between them) over the STI even though it has more HP, it's just plainly butt ugly on the inside and out with that spoiler/huge hood scoop.

Although the Z is the most attractive and 2nd in power, it is also the most expensive.

The SRT4 I've heard is a fun car to drive and is great for modding, however, I look at it, and all I see is a Neon with a turbo charged engine... ew.

S2K doesn't seem to have many complaints with me.

WRX is starting to build on me, but it just doesn't have the looks but it's building on me, just like the SRT4, you can make them look decent.

i dont know about the other cars, but you can get a brand new 2005 base 350z for around 24,750. i live in MD. you should be able to get the same price in most states. heck if you cant, just PM me, ill hook you up with a buddy of mine that works for a Nissan dealership. you should expect used Zs to be a bit cheaper than that, depending on trim and options of course. im in college too, if ure trying to pull girls then forget about wrx and sti :p, gotta go with the sexy Z or s2k. s2k is a lot more fun to drive than the Z though, handles better than the rx8 and if you know how to launch it, its just as fast as the Z. So i say just get a used S2k. I like your list though, each car on this list are nice cars and smart choices. :) id definetly rather get a used STI than a wrx though, used or new its worth the extra bucks. but s2k is best for a college student, better enjoy a true sports car before its too late and youll have to consider back seats and cargo room and what not.

It sounds like you want to stay at or below $20,000. I'm a little surprised to hear that all those used models cost less than a used 350Z. I know it's a Nissan...but I didn't expect it to have higher used value than some of those other cars which cost several thousand more (brand new). You sure those numbers are correct?

Anyway..if you really loved the RX-8...then from that list, I would go with the S2000. It's faster than the RX-8, it's a convertible, and also has a nice high revving engine.

But if you are sick of having a car that requires you to build up revs up want some low end grunt, then I guess you have to pick one of the other four...or I would say three since I would instantly eliminate the SRT4.

By the way...have you considered an RX-7? :naughty:

why not get the new EVO9 ? or better yet, a good condition RX7 !!!

RX7 is too much for me to "handle" as the people over at rx7club say. I have posted over at rx7club.com and they are all saying it is unreliable too, especially since it will be my DD.

I'm starting to pull for the 350Z, but the prices are right, for 350Z touring package, they are around 26-27000, but that's for top of the line.

Insurance will also play a big factor in the cars.

you can only get a s2000 after you drive a rx8.

I always had a liking for the s2k.

Fastest to slowest

STI
SRT4 (almost as fast as an STi on the highway and a little faster than the Z and S2K)
350Z
S2K
WRX

Insurance wise I'd imagine the WRX would be cheapest, WRX and the STI are the most practical and the safest in a crash. Also, you can get 02-03 WRXs for a little over 15k used. A used WRX and saving some money while having a fun reliable car is the wisest choice.

If I were you I'd get an S2K, as long as you can take the impracticality and heftier insurance. It's not the fastest in the group but it certainly would be a lot of fun in the Cali weather.

personally. i will suggest to buy the STi even though you don't like the look. i like the look.
STi has the best preformance among all the cars. it is the preformance that counts.
moreover, unlike 350Z and S2000, it is a very pratical sports car. it can take 5 people and fits fine with 5 adults. the trunk is relatively large too. the car is more than easy to mode. Subaru is well known for their reliablity. well, the interior is cheap, the chairs are not comfortbale at all. but this is A RALLY CAR.
i was going to buy one before my 8, what happened was that it probably has the highest insurance among all cars you listed. i didn't buy it becaue i need to pay 5000dollar Canadian for one year. that is FUCKED.

Why no Evo on your list? Before I bought mine I had an '04 SRT-4...stage 2, exhaust, lowered, etc. It was a great car but I opted for handling and went with an '05 Evo. You'll be dissapointed how the SRT-4 handles compared to your old RX-8, but you'll pickup a lot of power. On the other hand you can keep the excellent handling and gain power with the Evo/STi. I would go that direction before the 350Z or S2K. With the STi/Evo you get more performance, 4 doors, excellent head room (especially in the Evo) and less insurance than you would pay for a 2 door. Halfway between the SRT-4 and Evo/STi is the WRX. You won't have quite the power of the SRT-4, but you'll have better handling.

You really need to take test drives before getting serious. I know I couldn't even fit into an S2K since I'm 6'3". There are other things you'll discover when see each of these cars up close and first hand. Good luck dude.

yeah, if im going for pure performance id go evo before sti,

though i recommend s2k

id say 350z is the most balanced of the bunch offering performance, good sexy looks, handling with neutral 50/50 cornering, daily drivability. its not the best in any category except for looks, but its also good at everything else. making it the safest pick.

ohh btw, theres a new Motordyne mod that just came out today. its a lower plenum + spacer for the 300hp rev up engine on the 350z and G35s (all 06 stickshift models and 05 35th anniversary models have this 300hp engine). The mod is good for +18whp and +22wtq and cost only 500 bucks. This puts the vq35 engine's powercurve a tad bit above your average M3 powercurve until the last 1000rpm where the M3 will take a small lead. the testers who put it on their G35 coupes (with the same engine) are reporting they are able to go toe to toe vs E46 M3s. Im taking this with a grain of salt right now... but its something to look into.

This mod should have even better effect on the 350Zs since they are around 250 pounds lighter and faster than the G coupe. hopefully in a couple of days when a lot of people get this thing installed, well see some 1/4 slips etc to see if this mod is really what these testers are claiming it to be. The old 287hp Z can already run high 13s stock, with the new more powerful 300hp engine + this new motordyne mod. I wouldnt be suprised if it can run mid 13s 1/4 mile consistently ala the M3, or even better with cheap bolt-on intake and exhaust. Beyond that, its mad expensive to mod the 350Z so its definetly no EVO or STI where you just cant beat how cheap it is to get power. But it does show the aftermarket for the Z is getting better and better.

but still, i say s2k because u can go topless, thats an experience that you just have to try it to understand the exhilerating sensation :) Cali is perfect for that.
even if you get a Z or EVO or Sti, theres still always someone faster out there. you'll eventually realize that having fun and enjoy the open sky is more important than being stuck in that loop where youre trying to go faster and faster. s2k is definetly the funnest car out of the bunch to drive.

No offence, and I know I'm going to sound like a jerk. But it doesn't appear you can even handle the 8, so what's the deal with wanting more power and faster cars?

how did you decipher that he cant handle the 8? just because he got in an accident? or is there something more we dont know about?

Don't get the 287 bhp Z. Get the new base model if your caught for cash. The 300 bhp Z's have different rods and bearings then the standard models, as well as VVT on both the intake and exhaust cams. Though the power difference is minor, the changes in the bottom end and heads aren't.

ie if your looking to mod a Z to its full potential, your better off starting with the revised platform, instead of the weaker bottom end 287 bhp models. Also know for their instant rod bending +4 power.

You can get '03 to '04 350Zs around here for less than $20K. For practicality get the ugly Subies--but for style I say the 350Z. S2000 is impractical and SRT4 will get you into trouble quickly--folks wanting to race, and it is not a good daily driver.

That's basically it. Due to him not being a perfect driver he is not worthy of such cars.

From that list of cars the WRX, & STI would be the only two choices. Especially since it would be a DD. The Z and S2k are too small and barely any cargo room. The SRT4 is plain ugly with an awful interior and a big rig shifter. You also have to crank the rear windows which I find completly stupid and pointless if you wanted to cruise around. A smart option would be the WRX as I would save money on car spent and cheaper insurance.

Just so you know the STi is considerably faster than the 350Z and the S2K.

In this group, the STi would easily be the most fun to drive. The pickup on it is incredible. I didn't get to test out the handling (or feel someone test it out) but since it is a rally car, it should be great. If performance is the only thing you really care about this is the obvious choice. (Unless you want to bring the Evo into the equation). It's not a classy looking car though. The huge scoop is initially distracting as is the monster wing when you're driving.

If you want to go more class, go for the S2K since it's considerably cheaper than the 350Z (by your account). And you get the convertible!

If you just want good performance and price, get the WRX. That's the best deal out of what you have IMO. Subarus are reliable, it has very decent performance, it's cheaper, and insurance should be cheap too. Also if you want to you can mod that thing.

Going with the turbo option, I'd say a Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX, first or second generation. I'm about to get flamed for this but... I've ridden in a STI that's had upgraded suspension, turbo, intake, and turbo back exhaust, I wasn't impressed. I was far more impressed with a '94 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX that had an upgraded turbo. Also the Eclipse will be a lot cheaper, though they have their own set of problems, mainly from what I've seen crank lock and the same problem any high output car has transmission issues.

1999 E36 m3 > all of the above eccept for the s2k which is a blast to drive but not practical.

If you want looks, performance and handling then the e36 m3 will fit that bill nicely.

btw get black on black.

Hardly. When I see someone hit a divit in the road, then loose control of the backend because they chose to turn DSC off, then tank slap it down the road, panic and then slide into a wall. I can only come to one conclusion. Overconfident, underprepared. From his description, the accident seems to have a lot to do with driver error.

I just find it odd. The 8 is a very compliant and user freindly car. It's very easy to drive, and easy to control. Some of the cars he is looking at are not.

Now, I would suggest the STi. You can get seat covers, or have the seat re-uppolstered if the blue bothers you, and swap the trunk out for one without a giant wing. AWD and 300 hp is damn fun.

It's crank walk
https://img479.imageshack.us/img479/...nkwalk21gc.jpg

haha, who the hell thinks of that.

the gsx might take larger power slightly better since less power goes to each wheel, but eclipses have a bad habit of snapping axels when they get around the 350+hp range.

They have a bad habit of breaking a lot of things. I'm a former DSM owner and while it was a great car and rather reliable for me (most didn't have this experience), the WRX and STI are superior cars in every respect. The only place a DSM has a slight edge is getting power for a little cheaper, that money you save will be used up quickly on repair bills though.

yup. former dsm owner too. mine was pretty reliable, until the engine on it crapped out at 140k miles. and that wasn't even from big power. car was stock. went through oil faster than a rotary engine too.

1999 M3 does fall within that price range, but insurance, just like if I got an rx7 is going to rail me the most.

Actually, the cost to repair those cars would rail you the most. :Eyecrazy:

im around a lot of M3s, dad has 02 E46, 2 friend has E46 convertible and coupe, another friend had E36 and sold it. the maintenance and true cost of ownership for the E36 is astronomical, something small breaks and youre going to pay lots of dough, it sucks ass for a college student. E36 was also very unreliable. I wouldnt touch a M3 new or used unless im out of college and have a good job. true cost of ownership goes well beyond the cost of the car.

I gotta agree with BlueEyes here. I wrote a similiar response last night but the forum died, so I just gave up and went to bed. So many people suggested the S2k, but I don't think it is the right kind of car for you. It is a very unforgiving car at its limits, way more unforgiving than any of the cars on your list. And Honda is done a great job maxing out its potential, so minor mods have little gains. You have to slap a turbo or supercharger on it to get a real boost in performance. However, I still love the car, and its perfectly practical as a daily driver for me. I don't need to carry much as a student and it gets better gas mileage than the other cars, 24 mpg city.

For you, the STI sounds like what you want in a car despite the interior. Easily modded, and turbo is awesome.

Sure you got to pay to play with an m3 but it's in a different league. Heck, it's in a different sport. BTW the late 90's were pretty reliable. I'd rather have an n/a car then a turbo. Turbo's are nice and all but it's nice to have brute force at all rpms.

It's really not a different league though, all of those cars he listed can at least hang with and most can outhandle and outaccelerate the M3. They also have more modern looking interiors. I've had lots of seat time in E30 and E36 M3s, they're great cars (especially when your dad pays to repair them) but compared to the current crop of performance cars on the road they're not so impressive anymore.

When I said different league, I ment overall auto experience. BMW Makes prestige automobiles. What you get is a sports car that has class. Out of all those cars mentioned, none of which have as much class as the M3. If I were bargain hunting for the best performer and I didn't care about looks and overall quality then the evo/sti would be hard to beat. For everyday use, I prefer to be seen/driving in something alittle more classy. The performance is definately enough for normal everyday driving and that is what I assume Hardhitter is after. Sure BMW's cost more to get fixed but if you find one that has been babied and has maintenance records, I wouldn't hesitate.

It is also one of the few rwd cars that has fold down rear seats. A feature that I wish the 8 had.

youre wrong about the M3s in the late 90s being reliable. Im a member of our local M3 club. the E46 guys have significantly less problems than the E36 guys and everyone pretty much babies their cars. E36 M3 are great performers, but they break down all the time. Granted the drive train is very reliable, everything else falls apart easily. A little tiny electrical probem can cost you tons of money. Recommending this car to a college student is a terrible idea.

I also dont know what youre talking about refering it to classy sports car, the E36 M3's interior is as spartan as they come. Its barely better than the wrx and sti interior, and they look worn by now while the used wrx/sti interior look much fresher. By todays standards, your average accord and camry has a nicer interior and better finish than the E36 M3, its a far cry from the rx8 interior. The exterior is also your boxy style relic from the 90s. I guess if that little BMW badge on the hood makes it more classy to you then more power to you. Im a big fan of the E36 M3, not because its classy or prestigious or whatever youre talking about, but because it handles like a dream and performs great around the track and twisties.
Its just not a good car for a poor college student. but it sure sounds like a good choice for you. you sound like youd be happier in a used E36 or E46 M3, why dont you get one. Ill be the first to congratulate you.

Okay, I am just going to throw this one out there...

Get a GTO. They have the most power at any rpm then any of those other cars, they are reliable, not bad looking, and in my opinion, pretty badass.

350hp/350tq or 400hp/400tq is hard to beat for that price. Get an 05 used one for 20-25k and don't look back!

Yeah, I love the GTO, the sound of the engine, the power, the torque, but look at the engine, a V8 and I am not getting a V8, no need for all that power either IMO.

I'm starting to just pull for a 2000-2002 330Ci. They look nice and can seat 4 and lot of luxeries. Only downside is that EVERYONE has a BMW, the maintence cost, and performance, it is probably the worst in all the cars I've listen in performance.

I think they're pretty badass too. I wish they sold them up here.

The 99 e36 has a better electrical system then the earlier ones. The interior is still really nice imo. I have driven my fair share of m3's(e36/e46). we actually sold quite a few of them at our dealership. I was always a fan of the m3 so I guess I am biased. If he's a student and wants to keep the payments at a minimum then why by a sports car in the first place? he should buy a new civic.

I would have bought the e46 instead of the 8 but 3 of my friends already have one. Plus I find that the steering of the e36 is better then the e46. The e46 is a tank in comparison. My next car will be the porsche caymen. My daily driver will be a 2000 ls400.

Hardhitter, check out this thread! https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=75355

they weigh 3725lbs, and consequently handle like they weigh 3725lbs. also, that's why you need that much power ;)

I would lean towards a g35 or lexus 350

lol these suggestions just gets more and more expensive now we're talking about $40k cars, he might as well just get the new Ferrari F430 while hes at it :p

Seriously, I would consider the new civic si.

You're really hung up on what other people think of you, huh?

Not really. I drive a mazda remember. You must be hung up on driving a cheap fast car. why? because you have something to prove riiite?

Defensive much? Push the issue, I'm on a roll today.

Seriously, what is the difference between driving an expensive car for attention and buying a cheap fast car with a huge wing? I guess everyone likes alittle attention but I believe that you enjoy it quite a bit.

:ftw:

Is it that hard to comprehend? He's implying that I like expensive cars because I care what people think. I don't get why he worries about what I want or why I want it. I don't have a problem with Ike driving his wrx with his head held high. The whole Idea of racing or driving a fast car is to prove something to someone.

It is hard to comprehend.

You have person A. Who bought a car for the badge, to impress people
and
you have person B. Who bought a car because they like to go fast.

Not really the same in my books, infact, there is quite a difference.

It is more then going fast my friend. It is bragging rights. why would we care about track times ect. because those times prove something and Ike loves to prove how fast the sti is to every poor soul that listens. If he only cared about driving fast then we would have saved thousands of posts from Ike proving this or that. All I'm saying is Ike does care what people think too. It's the same thing just a different audience.

This is going OT pretty quick so I'll sneak it one last comment before it gets shut down...

Test drive! Test drive! Test drive! The only way to avoid buyer's remorse is to drive the damn thing...multiple times if neccesary. Good luck dude. Let us know how it all turns out.