Some opinions needed
 

Hi all, this is my first post, but I am not exactly new here.

Just returned to Singapore from Australia not too long ago. My personal favorites would be the GT-R and RX7. As I am still hunting for my career here, I am not going to get a car really soon. But I figured it wont hurt to get some opinions and set my target early (though, being here in this forum, opinions can be biased).

Cars are pretty expensive here in Singapore :( Insurance, COE, OMV, Road tax!!! Fuel prices are pretty high too!!! It may be quite sometime before I can get my hands on a car here. Please don't flame me on that > <

My long term plan is to get a car at around SGD100k to 120k (new GT-R definitely out). Since I love the rotary as well, I was pretty sure I would want one. However my friends have been blasting me with lots of other ideas. After a hard time siphoning, I am left with these choices.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...1_gallery_.jpg
Mazda Rx8:
+ Rotary powered
+ FR layout
+ Best head turner
+ Low road tax
- Low FC
- Relatively harder in maintenance

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...yper_jp_02.jpg
Honda Civic JDM Type R:
+ High Rev NA
+ Best FC
+ Honda reliability
+ Most spacious
- FF layout
- Looks like a normal Civic to ippan-jin

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...3rry/stihl.jpg
Subaru WRX Sti:
+ Turbocharged (can't resist the sound of blow-offs)
+ Most powerful
+ 4WD
+ better FC compared to 8
- highest road tax
- Hatchback

Any other cars I should consider that falls within the 100-120k range?

I know that most of you, being an 8 owner already, will support the Rx8. I myself is also very tempted to just go with what I desire. But I need some sensible and logical reasons, just one or two, to push me towards my final decision.

Cheers

choosing the 8 and comparing it with type R and STI is already not sensible and logical................. :lol:

can you resist it?............ kekeke

I feel that they way you have put together your comparison has actually made you more confused. I would recommend that you pick out the top 3 positives which are more critical to you in owning a car. Then pick out the top 3 negatives which you are able to accept.

After you have put this list together, the best choice for you will become obvious.

another lost fella in this forum who dunno what they want.......just buy whatever you want or you like. ask pple opinion seems like a pointless move. the money is yours, choose yourself. ask so much also no point. If someone gives you an opinion, and turn out you dont like it. how? blame the fella who gives you an opinion? goodness.... Plssssssssssssssssssssss

Just ask yourself what you want. :)

p.s - whatever you need to know about this car is found in the earlier post or forums. be hardworking a lill bit, read them.

@simply8
Yeah, logically hard to resist. Curse my friends for "psyco-ing" me with all these deals :banghead:

@Fugu
Nice. hmmm... I hope its that easy. I guess it comes down to the 8 or the rex.

@gliny
I know what I want. But is it going to be a rational and good choice? And I dun blame ppl for my own mistakes. As you said the final decision is mine, so buying something I dun like is my fault alone. Never hurts to ask for opinions.

I know about the 8 itself, been reading this forum for quite some time too. Just not too sure about all the other stuffs that comes along being in Singapore (ie. PIs, taxes etc.) It was alot easier in Aust |3

Anyway, thanks all for reading and replying.

my take on the 3 choices

Mazda Rx8: only - point is the FC, the rest i LOVEEEEEEEE it

Honda Civic JDM Type R: "something" is still missing, unlike the 8, once u laid your eyes on it, you'll fall in "love"

Subaru WRX Sti: too common on the road liow, drivebility is not as "smooth" as the 8

for ur info...FC for sti is similar to rx8...hahahahaha....wan FC dun drive powerful car....drive cheryQQ. besides cheryQQ can jiak an 8 anytime wor.

IF wan power...sti
If wan looks....rx8
er...where does tat leave the cibic type r ah? oh it is for boyricer. kekeke

Hi there Veil_side, yes the other 2 seemed too normal compared to the 8. The 8 is a car the driver can really feel proud of. It is unique and full of pride.

@CoupeM, while it is very true that if one thirst for power, one should not be stingy with FC. But I have seen on a few sources which rate the FC of the Sti slightly (but significantly) higher than the 8. Perhaps I was wrong.

What does "besides cheryQQ can jiak an 8 anytime wor." mean???
jiak = eat?
(My singlish quite rusty liao, my bad)

While we love our 8s, we really should also give other cars some credit. The Honda Civic JDM Type R itself is a pretty credible car. Its a shame to have a 'boyricer' tag on it. Though its FF platform doesn't help it at all to be considered a "REAL" sports car, its 8800 rpm 225 bhp i-VTEC engine is still quite respectable. Allowing the driver to have good (relatively) FC if he is light footed and high performance if he is heavy footed. Anyway the "boyricer/ ah beng car" stereotyped image is still a turn off :P

PS: just saw your sig about the Swift Sport. The Swift wasn't stock right?

just buy a normal sedan that can brings u from A to B will suffice. no worries where u park or will get dinks or knocks.

buy an 8 then will think wat to mod and worry for FC, worry for smell, worry for heat, worry for vibrations, etc etc...... tai chi liao liao!

i just like to throw wet blanket hor! :lol: :lol:

1. One is a coupe.
2. Second is a saloon
3. Third is a hatchback.

How to compare? :)

The STi is a totally different league from the rx8 and the CTR. Lets leave the STi out, i dun see y u shld fancy a car with a carbody shared by many models, that is everywhere on the road agree? (the imprezas, the wrxes and the STIs)

U mentioned above that the JDM CTR has a high NA rev range. Rx8 has a high rev range too. The 6MT tachometer is up to 10,000rpm. Effective revving range is about 0 - 9300-9500 rpm.

The 6MT rx8 hp has abt 238 to 250hp, depending who u buy the car from. However the hp figures in black n white often are exaggerated to make the car look impressive.

The JDM CTR is not bad, parts are cheap, everyone can do a Honda, easy to mod and easy to extract horsepower, tons of pple driving and getting very common on the roads. Looks are shared with normal civic.

The rx8, of cos, oso getting very common becos the ATs are getting cheaper n cheaper, and it is sadly, the cheapest sports looking car u can buy in the mkt. Parts for the rx8 is expensive, and the car is very choosy. Gets the wrong parts, more often than not, ur car will be slower than stock. RX8 is problematic, with steering rack issue, heating issue, coolant reservoir issue, flooding issue.. many other issues.

Of cos, the rotary is a totally different type of engine with different characteristics. It may or may not be a head turner. There are nice and ugly rx8s ard. Sit in one of our rx8 if theres a meetup, then decide for urself whether u wan one or not.

The price different between a 6MT and a 6AT maybe quite a difference and cld be a factor to decide whether u wan the 8 or not. Actually the choice is not hard. Maybe the best time to decide will be the time u decide u wan to buy the car. Now may be a little too early to determine wat u wan, no harm coming to the meetups.

@wen pin, you mean a Mazda 6? lol

@coupe07, I totally agree with you on the part about the STi sharing chassis with many other non-sport models. It doesn't have the flavor that the 8 has.

About the JDM CTR, I was just trying to point out that its still respectable. Of course, when placed along side a rotary, its ability to rev will be severely overshadowed ;P And yes, Honda after market parts are all over the market but I like my cars stock so I wouldn't be too worry about the 8's modding difficulties.

"The 6MT rx8 hp has abt 238 to 250hp, depending who u buy the car from."
This is the part that I am not sure about. Which and where. I still have much to learn especially when there are so many parallel imports around. I thought of just getting from MM since I have read some threads about PI mechanics not very apt with the rotary. Well, I guess I will leave these questions till after I decide to buy it.

As for handling the problems of an 8 as a potential owner, I am still very much a green horn. I might know the theory, but nothing beats the practical side of things. Will probably seek some advises from you guys then :)

I would definitely want an MT 8 (be it 5 or 6), I always wanted it to be my wedding transport lol...

And I would love to tag along on a meet up if there is one, (if non-rx8 owners are allowed to join). I am sure I can learn alot from you guys.

Many thanks.

PS: Anyone here owns a red RX8 in Ellington square?

Ellington Square - No..

Hougang Central / One George Street - Yes

Velocity Red 6AT :)

You are cordially invited to join us in our next meetup. Send me a private message with your 1) Name 2) Email Address 3) Mobile number and indicate your preferred mode of contact for meetup updates.

I had the same 3 choices when I wanted to get a ride, I chose the RX8 after test driving the other 2..
my obvious decision maker..#1 head turner..so the gals told me..
the other 2 doesn't appeal at all...
#2 reason is the sweet purring sound of the rotary engine...

choice 1 - yes

choice 2 - NO

choice 3 - better not be a 2008

Before my purchase, I was debating between my 8 the STi and a GTO. Maybe you could consider that too since you kinda have track/drag/rally mixed together and not a specific kind of car...? Anyway, I'm happey with my 8 if that helps.

I see where you're coming from... there are so many things to like about cars that it is hard to narrow down the appeal of 3 different cars to just a few factors..Just forget about your friends' opinions.. most ppl (incl us) know about piston engines, but very few (not incl them) know much about rotaries. :lol2

1) 2) 3) Like what Icarus said :)

Also, my friend with an 07 sti says his FC is around 9km/l.. but you have a much better chance of improving FC in the sti by driving lightly than the 8. Turbo cars consume much less if you don't get on boost. The 8 seems to consume almost as much whether you rev hard or not....(rounding is not the same, since you brake hard and often.. different than if you just rev hard to attain your normal target speed, from an energy standpoint.)

But seriously, if you like cars, i think you would be happy with whichever one of the 3 you eventually choose.

Thanks all for the replies.

@Fugu, a pity. I thought maybe the owner was also a member here. Thanks heaps for the invitation, I had forwarded you the required details. Looking forward to SG's own Rotary club.

@airworm, yah I do agree that all the girls I know give the 8 a thumbs up but totally dislike the aesthetics of the STi or even Evo. As for the JDM CTR, they couldn't differentiate it from the normal civic > <

@IcarusX, Hmmm, I haven thought of the GTO, been in Australia too much and was saturated with all those V8 muscles. Nonetheless, is the GTO also around 100-120k here in SG? It would have to be imported right, being a Pontaic?

Is there something wrong with the 08 STi? The reviews are pretty good so far. Apart from the more mature looks, the interior has improved and I like the idea of variable wheel bias.

@Rumboo, Yes, as a car lover, its hard to choose sometimes :P Your point about improving FC in STi by feathering the pedal and how the Rotary almost consume as much whether we feather or not... I sort of agree. I haven read any thing which claimed otherwise yet. Kind of sad though. But the high frequency hum of the engine is like the song of a siren, too seductive.

I'm not 100% sure on the conversion I have so I can't give you exact figures. However, I can say, judging by the cars you're debating over, the GTO fits perfectly in your range if you are to consider that. Imported? Don't quote me, but I believe there is at least <b>1</b>Pontiac Manufacturer in Australia...

As far as the STi... reviews range from terrible to perfect depending on your source. One of the strongest reasons people dislike the new STi is simply the fact it is now a hatchback, I am one of those people. It is also much more expensive, your insurance company will spit on you, no dramatic power increase, and overall, regardless of the new look, just is more targetted for a family man/women. I won't go any further. If you want an STi, no higher than 2007.

Happy huntings mate! :)

^

I guess I'm a n00b at quoting....

The hatchback chassis was chosen as they claimed that it was the way to remain competitive in the WRC. Well yes it is much more expensive because of having slightly more gizmos. Gizmos which average petrolheads like us probably dun need. The looks became more mature. Unlike the that old boyish looks.

238hp comes from MM, which is the euro model. Detuned for euro emission standard. Only 6MT available from MM.

250hp is JDM model and only 6MT has 250hp on paper, 5MT is sharing the old 4AT engine and difficult to extract hp. As for general servicing, everyone can do the job, juz tell him to use the right oil. other than that, major problems dun come so soon unless u r unlucky.

238hp comes from MM, which is the euro model. Detuned for euro emission standard. Only 6MT available from MM.

250hp is JDM model and only 6MT has 250hp on paper, 5MT is sharing the old 4AT engine and difficult to extract hp. As for general servicing, everyone can do the job, juz tell him to use the right oil. other than that, major problems dun come so soon unless u r unlucky.

How bout 6 speed auto

Actually, the sti fuel consumption is a worse than an rx8 if we're talking abt
stock to stock, 6mt vs sti based on the same style of driving...

Mai tu liao! Buy a 8!

....Just not stormy blue colour... get red like Fugu!

@Rei, thats news to me. Gotta do more research on my part.

@Rumboo, yah I am pretty much convinced. And yes I would get a red one if I am ever gonna get one :P

Thanks everyone.

PS: Saw an article on how CNG can save the earth.
Emailed CNG, got the reply, cant have CNG on a rotary.
And here is an off topic question which pops off my head during my lunch today, Does engine breaking consumes more fuel than just fully relying on brakes to stop?

I dont know about that, but I always engine break anyway.

Engine braking shouldn't burn more fuel, cos you're not injecting more than idling fuel when your foot is off the accelerator. You're just using the resistance from your engine's compression to slow down.

However, if you're blipping the throttle while downshifting to save your syncro, and are crap at it like I am, then you would be using a little more fuel. Also, when you engine brake, if you slow down too much then have to accel a little to reach the stoplight, then that's also using more fuel.

Can you elaborate abit on the downshifting to save syncro part? What do you mean by being crap at it?

I always have this notion that if the rpm is high, more fuel is burnt.
I normally downshift to slow down (resulting in higher rpms) while using a little bit of braking to "save" the brakes.
Friends I have simply drop to neutral and apply the brakes or just apply the brakes alone.

When I went to buy my 8 I looked at many cars. Test drove them all from Mustangs, to 350Z's. Top pix's
RX8 Of course
BMW M3
C6 corvette
350Z
The 8 won because of the styling inside and out. Handling, it's a drivers car often equaling cars with more horsepower on a closed course ie. 350Z and BMW M3. The car has one of the best chassis around. And it's not a economy or mid-size family car with a overpowered engine ie. Civic si, or STI.
Now I'm not knocking these cars, my personal pref. I want a sportscar that was built from groune zero to be a sports car.

ohh, i see my sentence has double meaning... sorry!

"While downshifting, if you're blipping the throttle to save your synchro, .."

gotta rush off to work, otherwise 200 passengers will curse and swear at me... more on that later!

What i understand from a advance driving instructor is that more drivers tend to use engine brake more then their foot brake in order to save thier brake pad which is ironic ......as cost of repairing gear box wear and tear is very much higher then replacing brake pad.
Brake pads are meant to wear in order to stop the car so just use them

If the high rpm is because you are using the accelerator - ie, injecting fuel to move the car, then more fuel is used. If the high rpm is a result of the inertia of the moving car turning the wheels, with the new gear ratio translating that into faster crankshaft rotation and higher engine rpm, then all that energy is coming from the kinetic energy of the moving car, not the fuel.

In hybrid cars, regenerative braking is, in effect, engine braking, where the forward motion of the car is converted by the electric motor into electricity, thereby slowing down the car. While this actually generates useful power in the electric car, this energy is simply wasted in an internal combustion car, but at least we are left with the other useful effect of slowing down.

Eggshell:
Hi rev w/ accelerator = more fuel
Hi rev w/out accelerator = idling fuel


When downshifting, if you release the clutch without revving up the engine while the clutch is depressed so that the gearbox internals match the wheels, you will feel a jolt as the two synchronise. Your synchromesh is doing that job for you all on its own, hence, greater wear on syncromesh. To avoid this, either get a VW/GT-R DSG gearbox (:crazy: ), or do the double-declutch procedure (shift neutral, blip throttle, then downshift)

In other words, you know when you release the clutch after downshifting (w/ foot off the accel) and the rpm goes up to a certain number? That is the rpm you want to rev the engine to in the first place before you release the clutch in your new gear position.

If you don't want to bother with double-declutching, you can just blip when the clutch is in, and release the clutch in the lower gear you want. Your synchro will still have to do some work, but at least it just has to fight against the inertia of just a few gear cogs, rather than the entire inertia of your rotors/pistons, crankshaft, etc..

2 things:
First, you will need to blip the accel rather than apply sustained revs, so that the car will actually slow down once the clutch is released, ie, the revs must be falling when you reconnect your drivetrain at the precise moment it reaches target rpm. Otherwise, you would just be maintaining speed.
Secondly, because of the time required to operate the pedal and gearshift, you will need to blip slightly higher than the target rpm so that the first point I mentioned can be carried out. How much higher depends on how quickly you can shift and re-clutch. If you are slow, you need to blip higher.

If you do it right, you will achieve effective engine braking with a lower gear without the uncomfortable initial deceleration which you get when downshifting and re-clutching at idle rpm. In fact, you won't even feel anything except a smooth constant decel.

This is effectively the toe-heel technique, except that for the toe-heel, you're braking with the brake pedal at the same time. In a race, this is advantageous because you're in the correct gear, within your optimal power band, and ready to accelerate immediately as you exit a bend. Also, you won't jolt the car and upset the balance while downshifting, cos it's so smooth (when done correctly).

Any gurus are most welcome to correct my misconceptions... quickly, before i destroy my transmission! :D:

PS: this is not thread-hijacking, cos the OP brought this topic up! :hahano:

If you can double-declutch perfectly each time, then you definitely save the brakes and won't wear out your transmission, but how many of us can do that?

I think it's more for conserving your brakes during a race rather than daily driving. Also, they say keeping your car in gear will help with controllability, but again I think that's more for racing..

Also, our rotary doesn't engine brake as effectively as a piston engine.

@Rumboo, thanks heaps for such a detailed and long elaboration. Since you mention that the rotary doesnt engine brake as well as a piston, might as well just save the trouble of messing up the syncros and just use the brakes. lol

All these times I had been engine braking without heel-toeing. Bad. Think I shall do the (shift neutral, blip throttle, then downshift) procedure next time. But blipping the throttle means using more fuel. hahahaha.

So its like i am in gear 3,
foot off accel, depress clutch
shift to neutral, blip throttle to ideal rpm (is the clutch still depress or I release?)

I presume I should release since its called double-declutching right?

depress clutch again and downshift to 2
release clutch

Am i doing it right?

Close... i think it's :
foot off accel, depress clutch
shift to neutral, release clutch
blip to ideal rpm + a bit more, for reaction time
depress clutch, shift to 2, release clutch

in other words, blip should occur while clutch is engaged, but gear is in neutral.

i may be wrong, cos i'm self taught, but it seems to work for me.. check out this video in slow motion and see if it looks like that's what the driver is doing.

http://www.teamsmr.com/movies/Footbox%20Small.wmv

takes a bit of practice, though! Start without heel-toe first. Overrev, and the car actually accelerates when you finally re-clutch. Underrev (or shift too slow) and the normal engine-braking jolt occurs. I just try it for fun.. something else to play with in an MT :)

thanks for the link. it helps loads in explanation.

RX8 and the Sti is totally different. One is NA and the other Turbo... How to compare...

RX8 is a drifter car with killer looks... Sti is a sprinter with a design you either hate it or love it...

I had driven RX8 before and now drives a WRX. I still prefer the sleek design of RX8 but I love the power of WRX.

Coupe 07,
Do you sell the latest VSD X concept?

rx8 is also a sprinter depends how u mod it, anyway all cars are sprinters. its whether u got the iron b**ls or not.

Er...how is an sti a sprinter when there is a huge lag while waiting for the turbo to spool?? I thot u getting cibic type r how come now get wrx?? hatchback ah? :)

hmmm, i tot turbos are pretty well made today that the spooling doesnt take long? But its true that in the STi, you can really feel the eyes being sucked back into the sockets. Not too sure if its because your eyes cant take the ugly interior or not thou :P

I just found my first job. The pay is decent so my RX8 dream isnt too far away. Yeah! Hope I past the medical check up today ;)

07 WRX (sedan). Hatchback very slow. Civic type r slower than Rex. Rex has more potential for modding and best of all modding is cheap...
I have test driven the type R, it is not as fast as wrx and very uncomfortable. My wife does not like it. What to do?

Turbo lag? yup, a bit. But once the Rpm is above 3K, it is damn fast.
5.9sec from 0-100.

The interior you can always give it a make over. I have give my WRX exterior carbon-fibre treatment and interior cubic-printing treatment. Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder.

You might as well wait for the new facelift RX8, it is much nicer and I believe they have sorted out the common problems of RX8. I hope so...

Unless they come up with a supercharged RX8, then I will buy RX8 again.:)

Why not consider other cars such as hatchback? Golf GT or GTI? best looking hatchback around? or wait for the Lancer hatchback ralliart with twin clutch sst, 240 bhp and 343 Nm torque?

eh muscleman..welcome to the subaru club...i oso driving wrx...sti...kekekeke...but we all in wrong forum. :P

I thought you are driving a RX8 or a hyundai???
I'm here to see whether got good lobang on DEFI... and to read interesting posts.

me???
no ah...all along my real car is a vios. hahahahahahaha

And you lost to SSS? You deliberate let SSS win, right?

Yah I did try to consider the Golf GTi, but its much more exp then the 8. The reason why I compare the CTR, RX8, and STi, is because they are all around or less than 100k.

vios veri slow leh plus i gt weight penalty. help me tia the sss leh. he stay in punggol...:eyetwitch

Hi Bro,

Depends what you are up for ...my point of view:

Looks- nothing beat the RX8, looks cool, babe magnet, handling wise ok..50:50 distribution, especially the new design looks cool...

Tracking - Trust me CTR kick ass....and bang for bucks..the stock suspension beats all other brand...i can't remember the link, Tsuchiya (drift king) was testing a CTR with different brands of suspension on the track, Participants like aragosta, cusco, tein, ohlins etc...all the track timing lost to the CTR with Stock suspension.

Powerwise- No doubt among the 3 cars, STI 300Ps, if u are able to get the STI 2.0L JDM spec 310ps with 8500rpm redline, twin scroll turbo. Local STI 2.5L single scroll turbo.

Hope this helps

supercharged rx8 already have, onli u never see properly. btw u in the wrong forum, wrx forum not big enough ah