Comparison between RX8 6MT & 4AT
02-28-2006, 06:18 AM
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Comparison between RX8 6MT & 4AT
Hi Guys,
MM coded 6MT Max output 231ps at 8200rpm (Red line@9000rpm)
PI coded 4AT Max output 210ps at 7200rpm (Redline@7500rpm)
However for Max. Torque;
6MT is 211Nm@5500rpm, 4AT is 222Nm@5000rpm
A search on the net also indicate the 4AT have a higher Torque rating over the 6MT. Will like to seek answer is to why is it so?
slimer
MM coded 6MT Max output 231ps at 8200rpm (Red line@9000rpm)
PI coded 4AT Max output 210ps at 7200rpm (Redline@7500rpm)
However for Max. Torque;
6MT is 211Nm@5500rpm, 4AT is 222Nm@5000rpm
A search on the net also indicate the 4AT have a higher Torque rating over the 6MT. Will like to seek answer is to why is it so?
slimer
02-28-2006, 09:41 AM
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http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question622.htm
maybe this will ans ur qns. therefore i dont think whats the big deal about torque. its all about horsepower. but then again, its not really about horsepower unless u are talking about racing straight line. its about the whole dynamics of the car, the balance and how the car handles. that too plays an important role in developing a true sports car. if someone could just measure handling, i'm sure rx8 would beat others like the 350z or evo. haha. think i've gone abit off track. anyway, thats just my opinion....
maybe this will ans ur qns. therefore i dont think whats the big deal about torque. its all about horsepower. but then again, its not really about horsepower unless u are talking about racing straight line. its about the whole dynamics of the car, the balance and how the car handles. that too plays an important role in developing a true sports car. if someone could just measure handling, i'm sure rx8 would beat others like the 350z or evo. haha. think i've gone abit off track. anyway, thats just my opinion....
02-28-2006, 07:54 PM
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Thanks for the reply, but i got more doubt now.
Since (Torque x Engine speed) / 5,252 = Horsepower
As coded that the 6MT produce max torque of 211Nm@5500rpm, 4AT produce 222Nm at a lower engine speed of 5000rpm. With reference to the formula above, the 6MT will produce far lesser horsepower then the 4AT at 5000rpm. Isn't them using identical engine, with the the 4AT tuned to produce lesser Max horse power than the 6MT. Probably the 4AT automatic Gear box are incapable of handling 9000rpm, thus it's cap at 7500rpm red line. Could it be some thing to do with the gear box? Probably not, but i can't think of any other significant difference between them.
Since (Torque x Engine speed) / 5,252 = Horsepower
As coded that the 6MT produce max torque of 211Nm@5500rpm, 4AT produce 222Nm at a lower engine speed of 5000rpm. With reference to the formula above, the 6MT will produce far lesser horsepower then the 4AT at 5000rpm. Isn't them using identical engine, with the the 4AT tuned to produce lesser Max horse power than the 6MT. Probably the 4AT automatic Gear box are incapable of handling 9000rpm, thus it's cap at 7500rpm red line. Could it be some thing to do with the gear box? Probably not, but i can't think of any other significant difference between them.
02-28-2006, 09:53 PM
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Slimer...
Not trying to flame you but...
driving isn't really an intellectual exercise unless you are tracking or racing F1. Its an exercise of passion and fun at our level. To break thngs down based on horsepower and torque reduces the RX8 down to any ordinary car like a Nissan Sunny.... which it isn't.
If horses and torque are what you want, may I suggest the Z350. Its bloody powerful car to drive. If you are a straight line driver, then the WRX, Golf GTi or EVOs are great.
But if its an all-round package consisting of performance, handling and design, then I suggest the RX8.
If you want the RX8, the you have to ask yourself an honest question:
am I buying it for its looks (and therefore attention from the opposite sex or same sex depending on your sexual preference) -- suggest get the 4AT.
Or if are you looking at driving it at a pace that will raise your blood pressure, accelerating the 8 fast into the corners in country roads to appreciate its fine balance/engineering and rear wheel powered advantages? Then get the manual transmission either 5MT or 6MT.
At the end of the day, how many of us actually fully utilise the car to its design/engineering capability?
If you still insist on looking into the technical aspects of the car, try the search component of this web site.
Hope this helps.
driving isn't really an intellectual exercise unless you are tracking or racing F1. Its an exercise of passion and fun at our level. To break thngs down based on horsepower and torque reduces the RX8 down to any ordinary car like a Nissan Sunny.... which it isn't.
If horses and torque are what you want, may I suggest the Z350. Its bloody powerful car to drive. If you are a straight line driver, then the WRX, Golf GTi or EVOs are great.
But if its an all-round package consisting of performance, handling and design, then I suggest the RX8.
If you want the RX8, the you have to ask yourself an honest question:
am I buying it for its looks (and therefore attention from the opposite sex or same sex depending on your sexual preference) -- suggest get the 4AT.
Or if are you looking at driving it at a pace that will raise your blood pressure, accelerating the 8 fast into the corners in country roads to appreciate its fine balance/engineering and rear wheel powered advantages? Then get the manual transmission either 5MT or 6MT.
At the end of the day, how many of us actually fully utilise the car to its design/engineering capability?
If you still insist on looking into the technical aspects of the car, try the search component of this web site.
Hope this helps.
Last edited by lowrider; 02-28-2006 at 09:57 PM.
03-01-2006, 01:13 AM
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My theory is the lack of an extra port in the AT engine that actually make the fuel burn better. And at the same time, because of the lack of the port, its also unable to rev as high.
I like both engines.
I like both engines.
03-01-2006, 02:24 AM
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Lowrider,
Not trying to flame you but...
driving isn't really an intellectual exercise unless you are tracking or racing F1. Its an exercise of passion and fun at our level. To break thngs down based on horsepower and torque reduces the RX8 down to any ordinary car like a Nissan Sunny.... which it isn't.
If horses and torque are what you want, may I suggest the Z350. Its bloody powerful car to drive. If you are a straight line driver, then the WRX, Golf GTi or EVOs are great.
But if its an all-round package consisting of performance, handling and design, then I suggest the RX8.
If you want the RX8, the you have to ask yourself an honest question:
am I buying it for its looks (and therefore attention from the opposite sex or same sex depending on your sexual preference) -- suggest get the 4AT.
Or if are you looking at driving it at a pace that will raise your blood pressure, accelerating the 8 fast into the corners in country roads to appreciate its fine balance/engineering and rear wheel powered advantages? Then get the manual transmission either 5MT or 6MT.
At the end of the day, how many of us actually fully utilise the car to its design/engineering capability?
If you still insist on looking into the technical aspects of the car, try the search component of this web site.
Hope this helps.
First of all, thank you for your reply. But you are just writting close to ten paragraph trying to tell me something that i had already know.
Though I agree with what you said, did I ask anything about driving? Neither am I seeking your expert opinion regarding car selection. I am just asking why the RX8 4AT got higher max torque rating than the 6MT, period. Myself & Imidazole are just curious about it and will like to know. Don't try to act like an expert and trying to lecture people in this forum. Even if you are, I am not seeking your opinion.
Thanks to Yiksing and Emperor. Your replies are short and sharp. Much appreciate.
Not trying to flame you but...
driving isn't really an intellectual exercise unless you are tracking or racing F1. Its an exercise of passion and fun at our level. To break thngs down based on horsepower and torque reduces the RX8 down to any ordinary car like a Nissan Sunny.... which it isn't.
If horses and torque are what you want, may I suggest the Z350. Its bloody powerful car to drive. If you are a straight line driver, then the WRX, Golf GTi or EVOs are great.
But if its an all-round package consisting of performance, handling and design, then I suggest the RX8.
If you want the RX8, the you have to ask yourself an honest question:
am I buying it for its looks (and therefore attention from the opposite sex or same sex depending on your sexual preference) -- suggest get the 4AT.
Or if are you looking at driving it at a pace that will raise your blood pressure, accelerating the 8 fast into the corners in country roads to appreciate its fine balance/engineering and rear wheel powered advantages? Then get the manual transmission either 5MT or 6MT.
At the end of the day, how many of us actually fully utilise the car to its design/engineering capability?
If you still insist on looking into the technical aspects of the car, try the search component of this web site.
Hope this helps.
First of all, thank you for your reply. But you are just writting close to ten paragraph trying to tell me something that i had already know.
Though I agree with what you said, did I ask anything about driving? Neither am I seeking your expert opinion regarding car selection. I am just asking why the RX8 4AT got higher max torque rating than the 6MT, period. Myself & Imidazole are just curious about it and will like to know. Don't try to act like an expert and trying to lecture people in this forum. Even if you are, I am not seeking your opinion.
Thanks to Yiksing and Emperor. Your replies are short and sharp. Much appreciate.
03-01-2006, 02:37 AM
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Aiyohz, all the big fuss over AT and 6 Speed, I drive an AT, more torque from an AT is also because of the Torque Converter for the transmission unlike in a 6 Speed manual.
But I have to agree, if looking for higher performance, 6 Speed is the way to go. I am stuck with AT, because of wife's non-ability to drive a stick shift.
But I have to agree, if looking for higher performance, 6 Speed is the way to go. I am stuck with AT, because of wife's non-ability to drive a stick shift.
03-01-2006, 03:12 AM
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Slimer,
It's true that Mazda couldn't find an auto gearbox that can rev to 9000rpm. So they "detuned" the engine and limited it at 7500rpm for the 4AT auto version.
Actually the 2 engines are more than a little different. The 4AT 210 ps engine does not have the 2 extra inlet ports of the 250 ps 6MT which open at about 7500rpm to zing all the way to 9000+rpm. Hence the output and torque curves may be different giving the 2 different spec figures quoted.
I heard rumour that Mazda is developing a 6AT. I presume it would match with the 6 port 9000rpm 250 ps engine. It may be worth the wait if you must have an auto. Otherwise go 6MT now. I think it will be more satisfying.
-Ringer-
It's true that Mazda couldn't find an auto gearbox that can rev to 9000rpm. So they "detuned" the engine and limited it at 7500rpm for the 4AT auto version.
Actually the 2 engines are more than a little different. The 4AT 210 ps engine does not have the 2 extra inlet ports of the 250 ps 6MT which open at about 7500rpm to zing all the way to 9000+rpm. Hence the output and torque curves may be different giving the 2 different spec figures quoted.
I heard rumour that Mazda is developing a 6AT. I presume it would match with the 6 port 9000rpm 250 ps engine. It may be worth the wait if you must have an auto. Otherwise go 6MT now. I think it will be more satisfying.
-Ringer-
03-01-2006, 04:24 AM
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Slimmer: Apologises if one appears to sound like i am lecturing. I was trying to give my two cents worth of opinion based on my own experience on choosing a car; which is the underlying reason/motivation for your initial question to start with. I highly doubt that you entered this forum just to wonder "wah, why so many horses vrs torque in the 6MT v Auto" for the RX8 -- unless you ponder the same questions for the EVO, WRX or R type (?) and are actually doing some sort of engineering survey?
Its obvious that you are conflicted in choosing which version of an RX8: 6MT vrs Auto and thus your questions on torque or horses. Otherwise, your natural progression next would be: why does Mazda have 225/45R18 vrs 225/65R16 tires.
I assume you are just trying to decide on which car. That was my intention of writing a relatively detail answer to help you make a logical choice. Opinions are the lifeline of forums in general, you may not agree with all of them and mine certainly was meant to be a lecture.
Btw ten sentences does not usually amount to ten paragraphs in my books. ;-)
Its obvious that you are conflicted in choosing which version of an RX8: 6MT vrs Auto and thus your questions on torque or horses. Otherwise, your natural progression next would be: why does Mazda have 225/45R18 vrs 225/65R16 tires.
I assume you are just trying to decide on which car. That was my intention of writing a relatively detail answer to help you make a logical choice. Opinions are the lifeline of forums in general, you may not agree with all of them and mine certainly was meant to be a lecture.
Btw ten sentences does not usually amount to ten paragraphs in my books. ;-)
Last edited by lowrider; 03-01-2006 at 07:21 AM.
03-02-2006, 11:37 AM
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Hi lowrider,
Taking a step back and looking at the title i created. It does appear that it comes from someone deciding between the 6MT and 4AT. But you are wrong this time round. I had already decided which car to change to since last month. In fact, I was choosing between the RX8 or the 6MPS. And torque is the last thing to look at when i am choosing a car, especially the different in torque between the 6MT and 4AT are so insignificant. In fact at one stage, i thought that there is a typo error.
Thanks for taking times to reply. Cheers.
Taking a step back and looking at the title i created. It does appear that it comes from someone deciding between the 6MT and 4AT. But you are wrong this time round. I had already decided which car to change to since last month. In fact, I was choosing between the RX8 or the 6MPS. And torque is the last thing to look at when i am choosing a car, especially the different in torque between the 6MT and 4AT are so insignificant. In fact at one stage, i thought that there is a typo error.
Thanks for taking times to reply. Cheers.
03-02-2006, 12:04 PM
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Anyone who buys an AT 8 is a fool or doesnt care about getting thier moneys worth out of an automobile.
The only people who should even be ALLOWED to buy an AT 8 are super hott women who dont know how to drive stick but love the look of the car.
In my perfect world, this is how things go :P
Just MHO, I dont care if you agree or not.
The only people who should even be ALLOWED to buy an AT 8 are super hott women who dont know how to drive stick but love the look of the car.
In my perfect world, this is how things go :P
Just MHO, I dont care if you agree or not.
03-02-2006, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by SoFL_RX8
Anyone who buys an AT 8 is a fool or doesnt care about getting thier moneys worth out of an automobile.
The only people who should even be ALLOWED to buy an AT 8 are super hott women who dont know how to drive stick but love the look of the car.
In my perfect world, this is how things go :P
Just MHO, I dont care if you agree or not.
The only people who should even be ALLOWED to buy an AT 8 are super hott women who dont know how to drive stick but love the look of the car.
In my perfect world, this is how things go :P
Just MHO, I dont care if you agree or not.
Oooooh u are so so disillusioned, living in your own dream world...
Just to give you some facts that might alter your perception slightly,
In this part of the world,
currently a 6MT cost $115,000 and a 4AT cost $93,000.00.
The difference is $23,000.00. Where u're from, enough to buy an 8?
About 6 months ago, the 6MT was going for $130,000
and the 4AT was going for $104,000.
In this part of the world, traffic jams are a daily and whole day affair in many asian cities. Some buyers choose the AT solely for this reason.
We also have 2 types of licence. Auto and Manual/Auto.
If you have the auto licence, you can't drive the manual.
But if you have the manual/Auto, u can drive both versions.
Most of us don't have the luxury of owning 2 cars, therefore
for example, if your wife has a auto licence and u have a manual,
u just have to make some sacrifices.
From my personal opinion, the AT feels more torquish within the 3000 to 6000rpm
which is where I need the power most in city driving.
Lastly, I think your "My Humble Opinion" is not quite humble but rather biased
but then again it just MHO.
03-02-2006, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SoFL_RX8
Anyone who buys an AT 8 is a fool or doesnt care about getting thier moneys worth out of an automobile.
The only people who should even be ALLOWED to buy an AT 8 are super hott women who dont know how to drive stick but love the look of the car.
In my perfect world, this is how things go :P
Just MHO, I dont care if you agree or not.
The only people who should even be ALLOWED to buy an AT 8 are super hott women who dont know how to drive stick but love the look of the car.
In my perfect world, this is how things go :P
Just MHO, I dont care if you agree or not.
Sadly in our imperfect world of traffic lights every 50m and illegal 3 digit speeds, MTs will not seem like a great idea. No doubt MT are good but in 80% of situations in SG; you will wish you drive a AT. Unless you stay at home most of the time, you will know.
Buying a rotary is a tradition breaker in itself, if you like pure unadulterated speed and drive; buy a 350Z.
And since by your opinion super hot women drive ATs; you must be a super hot guy driving a MT 8?
Of course you would not care what others think; you are too self centered and self absorbed in narcissism to bother.
03-03-2006, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Emperor
Sadly in our imperfect world of traffic lights every 50m and illegal 3 digit speeds, MTs will not seem like a great idea. No doubt MT are good but in 80% of situations in SG; you will wish you drive a AT. Unless you stay at home most of the time, you will know.
Buying a rotary is a tradition breaker in itself, if you like pure unadulterated speed and drive; buy a 350Z.
And since by your opinion super hot women drive ATs; you must be a super hot guy driving a MT 8?
Of course you would not care what others think; you are too self centered and self absorbed in narcissism to bother.
Buying a rotary is a tradition breaker in itself, if you like pure unadulterated speed and drive; buy a 350Z.
And since by your opinion super hot women drive ATs; you must be a super hot guy driving a MT 8?
Of course you would not care what others think; you are too self centered and self absorbed in narcissism to bother.
03-03-2006, 06:18 AM
#18
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Aiyah guys, why so sensitive. Its only one man's opinion. Besides, i rather be a super hot looking woman than an super ugly guy!! ;-)
Based on this logic I rather be driving a 4AT.
Thats his moral of the story.
Based on this logic I rather be driving a 4AT.
Thats his moral of the story.
03-03-2006, 11:37 AM
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Heheh, i don't think the measure of a driver's ability is based solely upon his preference for MT, even though it allows a good driver more control. Lots of lousy drivers insist on driving manual, but don't "get their money's worth out of (their) automobile" because they can't drive well.
Myself, i just can't stand the car changing gears on me when i don't want it to, and i don't like the feeling of a viscous torque converter... that's why i prefer MT.
Myself, i just can't stand the car changing gears on me when i don't want it to, and i don't like the feeling of a viscous torque converter... that's why i prefer MT.
03-03-2006, 11:51 AM
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wow, i leave a comment that i thought was fairly lighthearted and I get flammed on... I see people in this forum cant take a joke. Maybe next time Ill follow it up with a huge I WAS JUST KIDDING!!!! although I thought "in my perfect world :P" would be enough.
And yes... Im completely self absorbed. Dude, how can you justify making a comment like that after I post 1 comment.
People on these forums are brutal... maybe Ill stick to car meets. Its a little easier to tell when Im joking in person, eh?
Anyways, cool your heels fellas, I didnt mean any offence, at worst a light jab at AT owners.
And yes... Im completely self absorbed. Dude, how can you justify making a comment like that after I post 1 comment.
People on these forums are brutal... maybe Ill stick to car meets. Its a little easier to tell when Im joking in person, eh?
Anyways, cool your heels fellas, I didnt mean any offence, at worst a light jab at AT owners.
03-04-2006, 01:37 AM
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The more I read these posts, the more I think forumites drink a juice called "sensitivity". And learning a lesson from SoFL_RX8 (gosh, your nick damn hard to type; ahem, no comments on mine!)... I AM KIDDING!!
OK, seriously, the point of this post is that now I'm really curious about driving a AT8. Hmm.... I can only speak about my MT and it's really not a prob for me in traffic, and never felt needing more torque ever. Besides, the gears are so adaptable I sometimes take 3rd gear like an auto car. Just drag and drag and drag. After all, it doesn't shudder at 30kph and with 9,000 rpms, I think flooring it goes to 130kph (guys, this one the 'experts' would know better.) Just a note to people who are considering AT vs MT (just like almost everyone who is about to buy one thinks about.) Lastly, the stick shift on RX8 is bloody easy. I had too much to drink some time back and 'forced' my gf to drive. Now she doesn't want to stop
Back to point... I'm really curious about driving the auto now. Got big difference meh?
OK, seriously, the point of this post is that now I'm really curious about driving a AT8. Hmm.... I can only speak about my MT and it's really not a prob for me in traffic, and never felt needing more torque ever. Besides, the gears are so adaptable I sometimes take 3rd gear like an auto car. Just drag and drag and drag. After all, it doesn't shudder at 30kph and with 9,000 rpms, I think flooring it goes to 130kph (guys, this one the 'experts' would know better.) Just a note to people who are considering AT vs MT (just like almost everyone who is about to buy one thinks about.) Lastly, the stick shift on RX8 is bloody easy. I had too much to drink some time back and 'forced' my gf to drive. Now she doesn't want to stop
Back to point... I'm really curious about driving the auto now. Got big difference meh?
03-04-2006, 02:18 AM
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Maybe i am too sensitive to the word fool and auto in the same line. Throw the "hot babe" into the mix too.
If we did not like the look of the 8, we would have bought a wrx for 3/4 of the price. So tell me that you bought the 8 for speed.
If we did not like the look of the 8, we would have bought a wrx for 3/4 of the price. So tell me that you bought the 8 for speed.
03-04-2006, 09:05 PM
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Personally, I just like to drive MT and I can tolerate start/stop traffic. Perhaps others would rather have the conveniece of the AT or are forced to buy an AT because of family members or licensing issues. To each his/her own. As for AT being having more torque than MT, don't forget that power figures are usually taken from the engine. The road performance of the car still depends on how the engine is mated to your wheels, which is through the transmission. Current ATs are still limited by the 4-spd transmission and torque convertor further robs the power. MTs have the performance edge since they have more gears to play with. It would be interesting to see the performance of the 6-spd AT if it ever comes.
03-05-2006, 12:09 AM
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True. I bought the AT partly because of my wife; otherwise i would have got a MT. But i also appreciate the freedom a AT give me, esp i make alot of calls, eat stuff and take items while driving (safely).
Then again, if SG has a race track or good long roads; i would have got the MT even if i have to sacrifice convenience.
The AT does lose power throught the drivetrain, torque converter and only 4 gears. But its still fast enough for daily commute and occasional fun.
Then again, if SG has a race track or good long roads; i would have got the MT even if i have to sacrifice convenience.
The AT does lose power throught the drivetrain, torque converter and only 4 gears. But its still fast enough for daily commute and occasional fun.
03-05-2006, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Emperor
True. I bought the AT partly because of my wife; otherwise i would have got a MT. But i also appreciate the freedom a AT give me, esp i make alot of calls, eat stuff and take items while driving (safely).