Comparison between RX8 6MT & 4AT
 

Hi Guys,

MM coded 6MT Max output 231ps at 8200rpm (Red line@9000rpm)
PI coded 4AT Max output 210ps at 7200rpm (Redline@7500rpm)

However for Max. Torque;
6MT is 211Nm@5500rpm, 4AT is 222Nm@5000rpm
A search on the net also indicate the 4AT have a higher Torque rating over the 6MT. Will like to seek answer is to why is it so?

slimer

Im curious as well. Why would the AT have less hp, but more TQ, than the MT?

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question622.htm

maybe this will ans ur qns. therefore i dont think whats the big deal about torque. its all about horsepower. but then again, its not really about horsepower unless u are talking about racing straight line. its about the whole dynamics of the car, the balance and how the car handles. that too plays an important role in developing a true sports car. if someone could just measure handling, i'm sure rx8 would beat others like the 350z or evo. haha. think i've gone abit off track. anyway, thats just my opinion....

Thanks for the reply, but i got more doubt now.

Since (Torque x Engine speed) / 5,252 = Horsepower

As coded that the 6MT produce max torque of 211Nm@5500rpm, 4AT produce 222Nm at a lower engine speed of 5000rpm. With reference to the formula above, the 6MT will produce far lesser horsepower then the 4AT at 5000rpm. Isn't them using identical engine, with the the 4AT tuned to produce lesser Max horse power than the 6MT. Probably the 4AT automatic Gear box are incapable of handling 9000rpm, thus it's cap at 7500rpm red line. Could it be some thing to do with the gear box? Probably not, but i can't think of any other significant difference between them.

Slimer...
 

Not trying to flame you but...

driving isn't really an intellectual exercise unless you are tracking or racing F1. Its an exercise of passion and fun at our level. To break thngs down based on horsepower and torque reduces the RX8 down to any ordinary car like a Nissan Sunny.... which it isn't.

If horses and torque are what you want, may I suggest the Z350. Its bloody powerful car to drive. If you are a straight line driver, then the WRX, Golf GTi or EVOs are great.

But if its an all-round package consisting of performance, handling and design, then I suggest the RX8.

If you want the RX8, the you have to ask yourself an honest question:

am I buying it for its looks (and therefore attention from the opposite sex or same sex depending on your sexual preference) -- suggest get the 4AT.

Or if are you looking at driving it at a pace that will raise your blood pressure, accelerating the 8 fast into the corners in country roads to appreciate its fine balance/engineering and rear wheel powered advantages? Then get the manual transmission either 5MT or 6MT.

At the end of the day, how many of us actually fully utilise the car to its design/engineering capability?

If you still insist on looking into the technical aspects of the car, try the search component of this web site.

Hope this helps.

Just different tuning, lower rpm torque sacrificed for higher rpm hp, a common traits of high rev NA engine.

My theory is the lack of an extra port in the AT engine that actually make the fuel burn better. And at the same time, because of the lack of the port, its also unable to rev as high.

I like both engines.

Lowrider,

Not trying to flame you but...

driving isn't really an intellectual exercise unless you are tracking or racing F1. Its an exercise of passion and fun at our level. To break thngs down based on horsepower and torque reduces the RX8 down to any ordinary car like a Nissan Sunny.... which it isn't.

If horses and torque are what you want, may I suggest the Z350. Its bloody powerful car to drive. If you are a straight line driver, then the WRX, Golf GTi or EVOs are great.

But if its an all-round package consisting of performance, handling and design, then I suggest the RX8.

If you want the RX8, the you have to ask yourself an honest question:

am I buying it for its looks (and therefore attention from the opposite sex or same sex depending on your sexual preference) -- suggest get the 4AT.

Or if are you looking at driving it at a pace that will raise your blood pressure, accelerating the 8 fast into the corners in country roads to appreciate its fine balance/engineering and rear wheel powered advantages? Then get the manual transmission either 5MT or 6MT.

At the end of the day, how many of us actually fully utilise the car to its design/engineering capability?

If you still insist on looking into the technical aspects of the car, try the search component of this web site.

Hope this helps.

First of all, thank you for your reply. But you are just writting close to ten paragraph trying to tell me something that i had already know.

Though I agree with what you said, did I ask anything about driving? Neither am I seeking your expert opinion regarding car selection. I am just asking why the RX8 4AT got higher max torque rating than the 6MT, period. Myself & Imidazole are just curious about it and will like to know. Don't try to act like an expert and trying to lecture people in this forum. Even if you are, I am not seeking your opinion.

Thanks to Yiksing and Emperor. Your replies are short and sharp. Much appreciate.

Aiyohz, all the big fuss over AT and 6 Speed, I drive an AT, more torque from an AT is also because of the Torque Converter for the transmission unlike in a 6 Speed manual.

But I have to agree, if looking for higher performance, 6 Speed is the way to go. I am stuck with AT, because of wife's non-ability to drive a stick shift. :Eyecrazy:

Slimer,

It's true that Mazda couldn't find an auto gearbox that can rev to 9000rpm. So they "detuned" the engine and limited it at 7500rpm for the 4AT auto version.

Actually the 2 engines are more than a little different. The 4AT 210 ps engine does not have the 2 extra inlet ports of the 250 ps 6MT which open at about 7500rpm to zing all the way to 9000+rpm. Hence the output and torque curves may be different giving the 2 different spec figures quoted.

I heard rumour that Mazda is developing a 6AT. I presume it would match with the 6 port 9000rpm 250 ps engine. It may be worth the wait if you must have an auto. Otherwise go 6MT now. I think it will be more satisfying.

-Ringer-

Slimmer: Apologises if one appears to sound like i am lecturing. I was trying to give my two cents worth of opinion based on my own experience on choosing a car; which is the underlying reason/motivation for your initial question to start with. I highly doubt that you entered this forum just to wonder "wah, why so many horses vrs torque in the 6MT v Auto" for the RX8 -- unless you ponder the same questions for the EVO, WRX or R type (?) and are actually doing some sort of engineering survey?

Its obvious that you are conflicted in choosing which version of an RX8: 6MT vrs Auto and thus your questions on torque or horses. Otherwise, your natural progression next would be: why does Mazda have 225/45R18 vrs 225/65R16 tires.

I assume you are just trying to decide on which car. That was my intention of writing a relatively detail answer to help you make a logical choice. Opinions are the lifeline of forums in general, you may not agree with all of them and mine certainly was meant to be a lecture.

Btw ten sentences does not usually amount to ten paragraphs in my books. ;-)

Hi lowrider,

Taking a step back and looking at the title i created. It does appear that it comes from someone deciding between the 6MT and 4AT. But you are wrong this time round. I had already decided which car to change to since last month. In fact, I was choosing between the RX8 or the 6MPS. And torque is the last thing to look at when i am choosing a car, especially the different in torque between the 6MT and 4AT are so insignificant. In fact at one stage, i thought that there is a typo error.

Thanks for taking times to reply. Cheers.

Anyone who buys an AT 8 is a fool or doesnt care about getting thier moneys worth out of an automobile.
The only people who should even be ALLOWED to buy an AT 8 are super hott women who dont know how to drive stick but love the look of the car.

In my perfect world, this is how things go :P

Just MHO, I dont care if you agree or not.

How do you know slimer isn't a super hott woman? :naughty:

Oooooh u are so so disillusioned, living in your own dream world...

Just to give you some facts that might alter your perception slightly,

In this part of the world,
currently a 6MT cost $115,000 and a 4AT cost $93,000.00.
The difference is $23,000.00. Where u're from, enough to buy an 8?
About 6 months ago, the 6MT was going for $130,000
and the 4AT was going for $104,000.

In this part of the world, traffic jams are a daily and whole day affair in many asian cities. Some buyers choose the AT solely for this reason.

We also have 2 types of licence. Auto and Manual/Auto.
If you have the auto licence, you can't drive the manual.
But if you have the manual/Auto, u can drive both versions.
Most of us don't have the luxury of owning 2 cars, therefore
for example, if your wife has a auto licence and u have a manual,
u just have to make some sacrifices.

From my personal opinion, the AT feels more torquish within the 3000 to 6000rpm
which is where I need the power most in city driving.

Lastly, I think your "My Humble Opinion" is not quite humble but rather biased
but then again it just MHO. :mdrmed:

Sadly in our imperfect world of traffic lights every 50m and illegal 3 digit speeds, MTs will not seem like a great idea. No doubt MT are good but in 80% of situations in SG; you will wish you drive a AT. Unless you stay at home most of the time, you will know.

Buying a rotary is a tradition breaker in itself, if you like pure unadulterated speed and drive; buy a 350Z.

And since by your opinion super hot women drive ATs; you must be a super hot guy driving a MT 8?

Of course you would not care what others think; you are too self centered and self absorbed in narcissism to bother.

:cool:

Wah dude, I so agree on your reply!! :D:

Aiyah guys, why so sensitive. Its only one man's opinion. Besides, i rather be a super hot looking woman than an super ugly guy!! ;-)

Based on this logic I rather be driving a 4AT.

Thats his moral of the story.

Heheh, i don't think the measure of a driver's ability is based solely upon his preference for MT, even though it allows a good driver more control. Lots of lousy drivers insist on driving manual, but don't "get their money's worth out of (their) automobile" because they can't drive well.

Myself, i just can't stand the car changing gears on me when i don't want it to, and i don't like the feeling of a viscous torque converter... that's why i prefer MT.

wow, i leave a comment that i thought was fairly lighthearted and I get flammed on... I see people in this forum cant take a joke. Maybe next time Ill follow it up with a huge I WAS JUST KIDDING!!!! although I thought "in my perfect world :P" would be enough.
And yes... Im completely self absorbed. Dude, how can you justify making a comment like that after I post 1 comment.
People on these forums are brutal... maybe Ill stick to car meets. Its a little easier to tell when Im joking in person, eh?
Anyways, cool your heels fellas, I didnt mean any offence, at worst a light jab at AT owners.

The more I read these posts, the more I think forumites drink a juice called "sensitivity". And learning a lesson from SoFL_RX8 (gosh, your nick damn hard to type; ahem, no comments on mine!)... I AM KIDDING!!

OK, seriously, the point of this post is that now I'm really curious about driving a AT8. Hmm.... I can only speak about my MT and it's really not a prob for me in traffic, and never felt needing more torque ever. Besides, the gears are so adaptable I sometimes take 3rd gear like an auto car. Just drag and drag and drag. After all, it doesn't shudder at 30kph and with 9,000 rpms, I think flooring it goes to 130kph (guys, this one the 'experts' would know better.) Just a note to people who are considering AT vs MT (just like almost everyone who is about to buy one thinks about.) Lastly, the stick shift on RX8 is bloody easy. I had too much to drink some time back and 'forced' my gf to drive. Now she doesn't want to stop :)

Back to point... I'm really curious about driving the auto now. Got big difference meh?

Maybe i am too sensitive to the word fool and auto in the same line. Throw the "hot babe" into the mix too.

If we did not like the look of the 8, we would have bought a wrx for 3/4 of the price. So tell me that you bought the 8 for speed.

Personally, I just like to drive MT and I can tolerate start/stop traffic. Perhaps others would rather have the conveniece of the AT or are forced to buy an AT because of family members or licensing issues. To each his/her own. As for AT being having more torque than MT, don't forget that power figures are usually taken from the engine. The road performance of the car still depends on how the engine is mated to your wheels, which is through the transmission. Current ATs are still limited by the 4-spd transmission and torque convertor further robs the power. MTs have the performance edge since they have more gears to play with. It would be interesting to see the performance of the 6-spd AT if it ever comes.

True. I bought the AT partly because of my wife; otherwise i would have got a MT. But i also appreciate the freedom a AT give me, esp i make alot of calls, eat stuff and take items while driving (safely).

Then again, if SG has a race track or good long roads; i would have got the MT even if i have to sacrifice convenience.

The AT does lose power throught the drivetrain, torque converter and only 4 gears. But its still fast enough for daily commute and occasional fun.

You said it right! It's darn friggin' hard to eat my Cornetto with a MT :mdrmed:

And you cannot pick your nose safely while in a jam :angel:

Emperor: This is where you are soooo wrong. Its one of my few real skills in life. Picking nose in traffic... no problem with a MT car.

I used to be able to read newspaper, eat a salad (but was a bit of a bitch if trying to get the right combo of stuff onto your fork) and drink (without a cup holder) whilst driving.... those 4 to 6 hrs highway drives are monotonous at best.) I did get pulled over once for doing this by the highway cops. (was in the States.)

SMS with a bloody Treo (with its full qwerty KB) is still a bit challanging at the moment. (I have had two accidents due to sms with my old Nokia.)

But I won't let it deter me. Need to keep life exciting. :boring:

Manual!
 

Yo guys, i have been driving an auto car for 6 yrs since i got my licence...and was thinking to buy a 6MT from MM or 4AT from the PIs...but after a testdrive at MM ( Surprized that they let me testdrive cos i thought after that incident, no test drive of any sports car), i realised so easy to drive probably due to the short shifter. The shift is very smooth and it was a very engaging drive even at 4000rpm only. It was an addictive drive! Then when i drove my auto car home...i felt like shit haha. It was fun to drive but dun know about traffic jams since i always take the CTE to work...but probably the manual is fun enough to justify the disadvantage of being stuck in jams. :hahano:

FACT: Performance wise MT nails the AT
Convenience wise AT nails the MT
Most drivers don't know how to fully utilise MT for performance
These so called MT hardcore fans are the ones that might be better off driving AT

^^ Nah, by the very definition of MT hardcore fan, they are better off driving MT, cos they like it. "MT Fan" = person who likes (driving MT). It's not necessary to be good at something to like it, otherwise a lot of lao uncle golfers/soccer/basketball players should just stop playing. "Like it" = "better off doing it" lor.

Not true... true MT hardcores aren't hardcores for nothing. However, I would say that most MT owners won't be able to fully utilise the performance of the MT on this small island. Not that they don't know how...

Silly assumption (Yiksing) that MT "hardcore" whatever that is... and sounds more like some up & coming porno movie (no pun intended) -- don't know how to fully utilise the car for performance -- its like saying my father is stronger than your father -- how to compare unless you have track days or hill climbs etc?

The counter arguement then would be; AT 8 being for driven convenience then does not really make your 8 a real sports car since most sports cars by definition isn't there to drive for convenience sake but for its performance.

Either way, its a my father is stronger than your father type of arguement that should be best left at the playground.

Even if you drive a MT and push it hard. Can you push till its limits on SG roads? If yes, then you are not pushing it enough.

It all boils down to preference.

Bystanders will only look if you car looks good. I had 3 seperate groups of people taking photo of my car on 3 consecutive days. Will they still take photos if i zoom past? Will they just say "siao kia"?

"Some like cold drinks while others like it hot. But when the weather is hot will you still drink hot drinks?"

Sorry I'm not being clear on the above regarding what I meant by hardcore, what I meant was hardcore fanbois type that keep saying AT is pointless, useless and such performance wise.

I understand what Rumboo meant and I totally agree with 'one should enjoy what one likes' but there are just some drivers out there that thought if they have MT, it meant they are faster.

Sqflyer, I agree with you too. If someone that knows how to utilise the max potential of a MT then they are entitled to say what they want, but frankly speaking most MT drivers that I know of (although they are very into motorsports, maybe I haven't yet met true enthusiasts) don't know how to do performance driving shifting.

Lowrider, what I'm trying to say is definitely not a 'my father is stronger...' type argument here, I think you would agree that there are some MT drivers that don't even know to rev-match, heel toe and stuff but kept saying they can smoke a same car with AT tranny. Yet some of them might just do better with just the AT, I guess I'm saying there's a difference between knowing how to shift properly and actually doing it. Convenience in an AT that I mentioned (performance wise), drivers can focus more on their braking and the line they take instead of fumbling with the stick if they don't know how to do it the right way fast.

Anyway those are just my opinions only so it doesn't mean siht.

Urm... you guys do get quite "intellectual" don't you? Cool. But am I the only one who bought the MT just coz there's a sunroof? (ok ok, aftermarket blah blah, but lazy lah.)

All you sunroof/moonroof lovers out there who happen to be able to drive MT say "AYE!"

yiksing, looks like you pinched a sensitive nerve...ha ha. Anyway, my post wasn't meant to flame you. I guess you have a point, I'm sure there ARE people (wannabes) who buy MTs even though they may not know how to drive MTs well. However, once they own a MT car, then at least they have a chance to improve on their MT driving skills. Can't improve on MT performance shifting if you don't have a MT.

No worries, mate! I know exactly the type of driver you're referring to. They'd be in for a big surprise if they actually raced with an AT 8!! ... which is why I wouldn't race with an AT 8 :Freak_ani

MT or At doesn't matters, as long as i can get the 8. preferably, i would wish to have a MT but its the 20k issue that i think i have to settle for the AT.

Its all cool man, I was getting rather emotional coz it really pisses me off when these wannabes happened to be my close friends. Anyway I didn't take your post as flaming so its all great :ylsuper:

Yeah man, AT can really kick ass too, most MT wannabes didn't realize technique is only a part of the sport, how you use the technique or take the line and use the situation to your advantage is more important.

My previous car had a sunroof and i did not really like it so i was kind of glad my 8 did not have one. Yes, i am a oddball.

Gears are useless and slows you down when you do not know how to shift at the right time or play with the clutch, etc.

But i do agree MT can be fun when the traffic and road permits.

I cannot wait for the day when Mazda designs a auto 8 that uses clutch instead of torque converters and you can use both MT and AT. If this 8 is launched today, i will buy one immediately.

QUOTE=Emperor]Gears are useless and slows you down when you do not know how to shift at the right time or play with the clutch, etc.

Gears are useless like toes are useless :mdrmed:... they is a performance utility!

Hoever, I do suggest that you try VW GTi's DSG gearing system. Its fantastic -- perfect blend of performance and convenience. There is absolutely no compromise on either.

Toes are more useful to monkeys who hang with them.

I have heard about the DSI. Why don't Mazda adopt it.

Man, thats the best line i've heard this year, which incidentally brings to mind something else too.....hmmmmm.......the dark side is calling :coolkid01

MT less people can borrow mah..Hee Hee Hee :cwm27: