MarkW

With reference to Morgans thread, a lot of the points made are really valid.

I REALLY REALLY want to like this car, and I have spent the last 4 months thinking about little else.

I have spent a fair bit of time exchanging opinions with you all and have found it both interesting and entertaining.

I have so many bloody photo's Ive lost count.

I still love:

The unique design and shape
The reported good handling
The 9000rpm redline
The suicide doors
The interior (black/red mmmmmm!)
The Bose Stereo
The high spec 18"s/Xenons etc
Velocity Red :D

We all have our own criteria, and we all narrowed it down to decide that this was the car for us. We have all put our faith in Mazda and placed our deposits.

However, certain things now appear to have changed. How this affects each of us individually depends upon our criteria as to how we got here in the first place.

For some people, the changes may not be high on their criteria, and whilst disappointed, it will not effect their decision to buy the car. (Morgan, Oilman - Im sure you will be happy ).

For others, myself included, we are being forced to reconsider how we got here in the first place.

Now I can only speak for myself, but there are 3 key things that drew me to this car:

1. It is unique and looks gorgeous (IMHO)
2. The handling and performance vs price
3. Potential high residuals of pre-ordering

Now 1 is a given, but 2 and 3 have been seriously compromised.

With regard to performance, I was sold on a 240bhp lightweight car (1300kg) with a 0-60 in the low 6's. You know the rest. Coming from a 265bhp Impreza, I was prepared to make compromises on out and out performance but only to a point. I dont really want to be mixing it with the Warm/Hot hatches of this world.

With regard to residuals there are no facts, but the signs dont look good. The What Car figures may be wrong, but are you prepared to take a gamble on £8000 in 12 months? Other figures show less than a 1000 pre-orders of the 3500 cars available this year. If there are no supply/demand issues I cant see prices holding well.

Also there is the issue of a 2 month delivery delay. Whilst not really a issue to many, this causes me a problem.
Before the end of August for my current car I need to buy 4 new tyres (£600), Service (£200), Road Tax (£160-Yes I can reclaim it) and Tracker (£130). I was hoping to avoid these costs by taking delivery in July / August.

I have really thought long and hard about this over the last few days, and I think it is now most likely I wont go ahead.

If I could still have the car I thought I was ordering in January I would have no problem. I am so dissappointed in having to make this decision it is untrue.

However, I am going to wait for the letter we are allegedly getting next week and see what it says.

I also am not going to cancel my order yet as I may as well leave my deposit in a while longer as I am in no rush for the money back.

If I do cancel then I am wondering if there is any mileage in selling my pre-order, and my reg plate will also have to go up for sale.

Sorry this has turned into war and peace if youve got this far well done.

I really am not dissing the RX-8, it is a GREAT car and you will all be very happy with it, I just dont think it is the car for me any more.

I know I am going to be kicking myself everytime I see one from September though, driving round in my ugly Impreza At least I will only see them in my rear view mirror as I pass them :D

If residuals are as predicted by what car, I'll buy one of yours next year for £14k.

Is there an award for the worlds longest post...........

J8NTS

Now that's a post.

MarkW, being in a similar position I agree with everything you've said. Having thought long and hard about my next car I decided the RX-8 was for me. That car was the 240ps etc...

Even though the specs have changed only slightly, I feel I'll be dissapointed with the vehicle. It's no longer meets my expectations.

I'd also like to add my dissapointment at the rumoured fuel economy figures. I was really hoping for a little more from this new generation rotary.

Therefore I will probably cancel my order over then next few days.

Gutted!

J8NTS

wakeech

you wouldn't win it using that many double spaces :p

heh heh heh...

craig172

I know how you feel, I feel the same - gutted. Only 2 weeks ago, i was unaware of any news on my RX8 since placing my deposit a couple of months ago. I even felt good when I was phoned by the dealer for a future viewing and told a book was awaiting me, and got my confimation pack.

However, since then it's gone pear shape. Whilist I could suffer the reduced performance, I only usually keep my cars for a year before changing to a different one. And the 8k drop plus expensive insurance and poor fuel economy is too much for me. If the pre orders are not all sold, this bares even worse for residuals and I fear the residuals may fall even further, as the Uk public in general will not take to it if costs are sky high with average performance

I'm really pi**ed off about it to be honest, as I too ooze enthusiasm as to the concept of the car, if it was US spec and residuals could be better say a 5k drop, with US petrol prices Ii could handle that, but I'm struggling to see any good news from now to delivery.

I feel like I'm the voice of doom and unduly pessimistic since joining this forum, yet ironicaly its only the forum postings that have changed my view. I too will wish i got one when i see them on the road, but will at least know i can always buy one next year second hand and have 8 grand in my pocket.

oilman

Hey Guys, cheer up:D

At the end of the day you only have £100 at stake whether you cancel now or later so why cancel now

Why not wait until your car arrives, test it, see what you think then hand it back:p

It's £100 either way

Cheers
Oilman

craig172

Must be dedicated to the RX8 typing at posting at half past midnight

Is the dealer going to let you do that, test drive it, then let you hand it back if you don't like it ? It would be great if they did !!??

I don't think its the £100 at stake thats the problem, imo. Its the anticipation we've had all this year, and expectations as to having a great car in September, and meantime driving my little buzzbox (clio172) picturing greater things on the horizon.

MarkW

Oilman, As I said in my post Im not going to cancel at the moment as I may as well leave the deposit in for now.

With regard to the £100, I will expect my full deposit back when I cancel as the spec is not what I ordered.

Forgot to mention fuel economy! It is not my prime concern and I am prepared to sacrifice it for good performance, but if the peformance is reduced then it also becomes more of a consideration.

Cheers
Mark]

Lock & Load

Pre ordering any car is a bit like going on a blind date ,you may have seen some photoes of the girl, heard a few bits and pieces about her .People who know her may have told you about her personallity ,hobbies looks ,figures etc but the reality is that until you have actually met her and taken her out on a few dates you want know all of her strenghts or weaknesses, some may intrigue you some may diappoint you.Before i get called an M.C.P. (male chauvinistic pig ) ladies this also applies to us males .So i suggest if you have preordered you may as well go on your date ,have an open mind and decide for yourselfs wether this car has got the right characteristics for your needs, if it has thats great if not hey it s another expirience in your world.

RichardJ

Anyone adopting the wait and see approach should note that if you read the terms and conditions of your pre-order, you only get your £900 back if you cancel your order up to 28 days before your assigned delivery date.
You can't therefore try it out then cancel it and expect to get any money back.

rael

Well voiced mark, you make all the valid points which I 100% agree with.

The point I would like to emphasis is that ones 'feelgood' factor today depends a lot on what car one has now. As a TT owners I was looking for and understood the RX8 to have similar performance (acceleration, top speed etc), good looks, handling, BOSE and petrol consumption etc. I knew that the interior and overall fit quality would be less than Audi's but then that was compensated by the 2 full seats in the back (I can take or leave the suicide doors). I had concerns about the rotary engine (noise and performance), Mazda dealership including rotary parts & service costs and Japanese shiny interior BUT was willing to chance that for other benefits.

Although I will not cancel today and will see the car and take a test drive, the £8k depreciation hit in the 1st years does no longer make this viable any more (considering other border line issues) and this figure may be accurate considering how the market will be flooded with 8's (compared to 350 or Crossfires) and there does not seem to be the demand today for the car. I personally think that Mazda may have misjudged the markets understanding of the sports 4 seater concept or willingness to accept the rotary engine .

Also, since ordering the 8 I have beaten up the TT a bit more and it has come through superbly. Cannot fault except for back seats and at the moment I cannot justify the expense for was seems to be a lesser RX8.

Option still open but.............

rael

Lock & Load

Rael even though i agree with you and others ,have you considered that if the rx8 does not sell in large enough volume a rx7 will definetely be not appearing thus possibly making the rx8 the last of the rotaries ???.How will the values be affected then ??? .i believe there is a lot of wait and see customers out there . The biggest problem with the rx8 is the economy that seems to be on the down , mazdas timing on the release of the rotary i believe will be its biggest problem .

hairyfrog

The terms and conditions are a bit ambiguous. Surely though expecting us to put up £1000 on the chance of likeing the car is unfair. I had always thought I could try it and get my 900 back if I didn't like it. Anyone got a definite answer ??

MarkW

There is no problem in getting the £900 back as far as I can see, as Ive just read the T&Cs.
However, I will want the full £1000 back as as far as I am concerned they have changed it from what I originally ordered.

jimbobjoe

When I originally ordered my dealer said that they would refund the whole amount if I didn't want the car when I finally saw it.

Nothing in writing to that effect of course......

AnilS

Whats the chances of Mazda dealers allowing you to test drive the RX8, and you coming away thinking that the car was more than powerful than you'd expected ? You can bet the car you will have test driven will be a 250 BHP version, but it will be UK spec. Its happened before to any Skoda Octavia RS test drive. I know people that drove it, thinking it was a 180 BHP version, only to find it was the 225 BHP one !

AnilS

morganrogers

Somewhat ironically I *do* have it in writing that my deposit is fully refundable because I expressed concern at being too tall... !

Funny isn't it ?
I am really excited and really really want this car - i.e. no chance I would cancel , (why would I ? There is nothing comparbable...)
and I am the one with it in writing for full rufund if I did !

Funny old world.....

MarkW

Is that from the dealer or from Mazda? Your money is now with Mazda, and if you signed the T&Cs then you agreed to a £900 refund from them. That is unless the dealer will give you the additional £100 out of their own pockets.

As you are happy with the car it is irrelavent amyway

I wish I could still feel the same way about the car as you

morganrogers

I do to.
Although to be fair on you , the car was always going to be stomped on in pure performance by an STi - so it is not surprising the power loss has hit you hard.

For me it is not just about the power. I feel this car truely represents innovation in an age of platform sharing mundane.
It seems at every stage they have asked 'OK - why do we have to do it this way ? Is there another way ?'.
I dont just mean the engine , although of course this is the main part. I do particularly like the way they have said 'we believe in this , and believe the driving experience from the rotary is needed'. Easiest thing in the world would have been to take the lazy approach of 'bung a turbo on it'. Same reason I like my typeR so much - Honda have said OK , we want a couple of hundred horses from a 1.8 - how can we get it ? solution a) bung a turbo on any old engine or b) tune it the gills and rev it to 9,000. Way cool !

Read the book - it is amazing.

That is why I am still so excited. The car is unique. It is not a hot-hatch conversion , it is not yet *another* car based on a golf floorpan , it is unique.
I am surprised you have dropped out - and hope you come back.
(others I think should just drop out - getting tired of the negativity)

Morgan.

AnilS

Is the platform not one modified from the MX5 ?


AnilS

morganrogers

errr.... no.

(Perhaps you are thinking of the early Renesis test 'mules' ?)

sixspeed

I think that is the key thing here. Everyone on this forum has ordered a car they've never actually seen in the flesh, let alone sat in or driven.

I think all the problems we've seen come about in the last few weeks are part-and-parcel of pre-ordering a car that has never been released.

Take the TVR Tuscan for example. People placed orders for that car 2 years+ before it came out. When it was originally shown at the Motorshow (and when orders were accepted for it), it looked absolutely nothing like the Tuscan that finally emerged in production. There were delays, and styling changes up until the last few months. The same goes for the Tamora.

Admittedly, TVR are in a different class to the RX-8, and the nature in which they're built lends itself to these constant changes since hand-building means that small changes can be made all the time at little cost.


But you get the idea.


It's perhaps a little short-sighted to presume that nothing on the car will change in the 6 months before the car is due to be released. I know this doesn't help those that feel the car is no longer what they want, but it's something that should have been expected.



-andy-

rael

Although I do fully appreciate and even hang on to the coat tails of those who are almost blindly positive on the back of news and rumour which seems to detract from the initial car specs, I should point out that this is an open RX8 forum which entertains all views and opinions however positive or negative as long as they are 8 related.

Every one of us have our own rationale for initially ordering the car, we all have different expectations considering what we own and therefore what we expect and many of us do not have the 'rotary' experience which seems to make slaves of others. Therefore any alterations impact us differently.

As opposed to arguing amongst ourselves (which has little value and every view is defendable) we should questions Mazda UK management of this whole situation. All we are doing is killing time and over reacting to every bit of gossip and considering they hold a fair chunk of our money their PR work is a joke although, trying to be positive, at least they have not postponed delivery to 2004!

rael

Lensman

Can't cope with a bit of reasoned debate Morgan? Shame on you ;-)

morganrogers

must have missed the debate bit I guess....

I do acknowledge that did look a bit of a severe statement though... oops !

I will endevour to remain the forums ray-of-sunshine/blind-faith-in-mazda (delete as applicable) :D

RobDickinson

heh. Least were in a better position than all those who put deposits down on the XJ200