oilman

Got bored over the long weekend and decided to investigate what cars the RX8 would be compared to in the UK once the road tests start for real.

It's a difficult task as once you start digging, it's so different that it may have no competitors or at least very few!

I used the following criteria:

4 seats, 0-60 around 6-6.5 and a price under £27000.

Here was my list.

MAKE/MODEL 0-60 PRICE £

Alfa Romeo GTA 6.0 26900
Alfa Romeo 3.0v6 Lusso 6.3 25500
Audi S3 Quattro 6.8 24820
Audi A4 3.0 Quattro 6.8 24890
Audi TT (225) 6.4 26800
BMW 330i 6.5 27140
Honda Accord 2.2i typeR 6.9 21495
Honda Civic 2.0 typeR 6.8 15995
Jaguar X Type 3.0v6 6.6 25750
Renault Clio Sport 3.0 6.4 25995
SAAB 9-5 Hot Aero 6.5 27695
Subaru Impeza 2.0wrx 5.9 21495

MAZDA RX8 6.0? 21995


It does appear to me that the package considered, the RX8 is truly "incredible value for money".
A four door, four seat which does 0-60 in 6.0 secs for £21995!!!

Taking into account, the list of standard equipment, looks, handling and 240bhp output this car is in a class of its own.

The testers should love it and in my opinion it will score well. I feel the only real downside to the man on the street will be the early problems associated with the rotary engine. If Mazda have indeed put this right as they claim then this car's a winner.

Any Comments or other vehicles (UK) to add to the list?

Cheers
Oilman

MarkW

I would add:

Alfa 147GTA 6.0 £22500
Focus RS 5.9 £19995
Golf R32 6.4 £22340
Mondeo ST220 6.8 £21745
Impreza WRX STi 5.2 £24995
Impreza WRX STi PPP 4.6 £26990
Evo VIII - not sure

Everyone was expecting the RX8 to be £25-£27k so the £22k price tag has made it very attractive and is effectively competing on price in a lower market segment than expected.

All in all a good list of cars, each have their plus and minus points.

RX8 does look to be very good value though

MarkW

Comparing the power to weight ratio (bhp/tonne) of all these cars is also interesting.......

180 Alfa Romeo GTA 6.0 26900
159 Alfa Romeo 3.0v6 Lusso 6.3 25500
166 Audi S3 Quattro 6.8 24820
146 Audi A4 3.0 Quattro 6.8 24890
164 Audi TT (225) 6.4 26800
153 BMW 330i 6.5 27140
163 Honda Accord 2.2i typeR 6.9 21495
166 Honda Civic 2.0 typeR 6.8 15995
151 Jaguar X Type 3.0v6 6.6 25750
175 Renault Clio Sport 3.0 6.4 25995
156 SAAB 9-5 Hot Aero 6.5 27695
161 Subaru Impeza 2.0wrx 5.9 21495
185 Alfa 147GTA 6.0 £22500
169 Focus RS 5.9 £19995
163 Golf R32 6.4 £22340
146 Mondeo ST220 6.8 £21745
180 Impreza WRX STi 5.2 £24995
207 Impreza WRX STi PPP 4.6 £26990

185 MAZDA RX8 6.0? 21995

RX8 comes out very well indeed.

oilman

Would find it hard to comprehend if this car was slated, as it represents very real value for money all around.

There's really nothing like it IMHO.

I'm looking forward to mine, RED ROCKS!!

Cheers
Oilman

maverikk

There is ONE BIG fear on my side: I don't doubt the quality of the RENESIS, but I fear it might not really be competitive in the light of fuel consumption. This is the real concern!

I am looking for the 192HP standard engine 5-speed man. It compares very well to the BMW 325Ci in terms of power. But when I look into the official Swiss Mazda datasheet it goes 0-100 km/h in 7,8 sec and the BMW factory says 7,3 for the 325. The BMW uses 9,0 liters/100km as compared to 10,9 for the Mazda! And this although the RX-8 is 1330 kg against 1530 kg 325!?

rael

Should we not also include the 350 & Crossfire. Although only 2 seaters everone esle is comparing the 8 in that group of new releases and not everyone who will buy it wants 4 seats?

rael.

jimbobjoe

I agree. I for one currently have a 2 seater, and whilst 4 seats is nice it was not top of my requirements list.

This is one of the problems for the RX-8 I think. It will compared to the Z350 and crossfire etc in terms of its sports car prowess, and then compared to the 4 seater coupes in terms of practicality.

It should beat all of them as an overall concept, especially factoring in prices,
but can it target its market well enough...........

RobDickinson

"175 Renault Clio Sport 3.0 6.4 25995"

Isnt that a 2 seater?

Have been looking round for cars to compare/test against the RX8. I cant find many.

I'll never drive a BWM, dont like VAG cars, so ditch :

153 BMW 330i 6.5 27140
166 Audi S3 Quattro 6.8 24820
146 Audi A4 3.0 Quattro 6.8 24890
164 Audi TT (225) 6.4 26800
163 Golf R32 6.4 £22340

Did consider the x-type a lot, the 3.0 is expensive, the 2,5 is a better deal, but seem like thre getting trany problems, a bit to big and 'grown up/pold man' for me anyhow.

151 Jaguar X Type 3.0v6 6.6 25750 :- ditched

Not keen on the Civic, total riceboy (and the dash mounted gearstick eeew). knew someone with and accord, wasnt impressed with reliability etc (yeah, realy, and he was a decent mechanic too)
By-bye :
163 Honda Accord 2.2i typeR 6.9 21495
166 Honda Civic 2.0 typeR 6.8 15995

Cars that are just plain ugly, suped up rep or 98% airfix plasic :
180 Impreza WRX STi 5.2 £24995
207 Impreza WRX STi PPP 4.6 £26990
146 Mondeo ST220 6.8 £21745
161 Subaru Impeza 2.0wrx 5.9 21495

leaves me with :
185 Alfa 147GTA 6.0 £22500
169 Focus RS 5.9 £19995
180 Alfa Romeo GTA 6.0 26900
159 Alfa Romeo 3.0v6 Lusso 6.3 25500
156 SAAB 9-5 Hot Aero 6.5 27695

I dont want the rs focus, have a focus now and dont want another, the RS is supposed to be an ok though. Still suped up family hatch.

SAAB is a bit barge like, havnt heard much +ve about their handling (Gm parts bin).

Alfa's are nice cars, great sounds/fun but TBH I realy want a car that runs with the same engine for more than 6 months. Also 250bhp on a FWD I have doubts about...

Hard choice to find anything I wan to test against that has more than 2 seats. I have a long list of 2 seaters, but as an only car thre just not practical enough.

rael

Rob,

I would agree with you on most but would not cast out the VAG or BMW's as they are in most cases of superior build quality, both inside and out. But I appreciate that was a personal comment.

I love the 147 and was at one point considering that as an option but build quality, depreciation but more important really bad dealer reputation put me off.

rael

RobDickinson

I agree VAG and BMW are great on build quality.

By personal choice I wont drive a BMW for several reasons, no matter hjow good their engineering/build quality etc. You buy a BMW you buy into the BMW driver attitude. Oh and they screwed over Rover too...

VAG are again well built, hugely competent cars. But I have to pinch myself to stay awake when I look at one. Driving them isnt that much of a thrill either. After driving a 225TT for a bit you know its fast, but you also know its not you thats driving...

I do like the look of the alfa's, but theres far to many scare stories about reliability around.

Heres one fiat grp cars repairs in just 2 years :
"4 new gearboxes
new dashboard
new ECU
4 new wheels
new exhaust system
new power steering setup
new airbag
new clutch
new brakes "

And you never have to change the oil on those 2.0l engines...

I'd realy like to test something comparable.

6ish sec to 60
Light(ish)
Sporty looks/handling
4 seats
£30k or less
Rear wheel drive
Not German.

Honestly when I first saw the RX8 (considering the last RX7 price) I thought it'd be close to or past £30k. At £22 its a bargain. I can see why Mazda are pricing it like that tho.

Tinman

I was looking at the 2003 Infiniti G35 Coupe

Total Configured MSRP† $35,605.00

What are some of your alls opinions on this car?

That was with about everything.

oilman

Great comments guys

I still don't know how you can compare 350Z or Crossfire, we're talking similar performance but different cars. I need 4 seats as I have two young children and a set of golf clubs to accomodate.

My main buying decisions were:

4 Seats
Performance
Looks

To my mind, the RX8 has all of these. The price was a shock, I was expecting 25-30k!!!

I still think that in road tests, based on my criteria it may have no real peers. The TT (225) has a very poor excuse for rear seats and I really couldn't live with it, nice to drive but impractical.

My point of this thread is that The RX8 will be compared to the likes of TT, Crossfire, 350Z etc etc but it's a totally different package, more akin to 330ci BMW. Having owned a 3 series, they are a good car but represent poor value for money. To spec a 330 to the RX8 level you'd need to spend the thick end of 30k!!

I REST MY CASE.

Let's hope the RX8 concept is not misunderstood

Cheers
Oilman

RobDickinson

Dont think were getting the G35 here.

The 350Z isnt out til very late this year and is £££ more than the RX8 (£22000 -> £27000)

$35000 is about £22000, no way will it sell for that here.

18ME

I am pretty sure we don't get those in Europe

MarkW

What you compare the car to depends upon your personal choices and preferences. The RX8 crosses over into several market segments (sports/saloon/performance etc) and doesnt realy belong in any one of them.

Oilmans criteria was "4 seats, 0-60 around 6-6.5 and a price under £27000", so 2 seaters are out.

If you just compare performance, then you can include the 350Z, Crossfire, S2000 or whatever

Personally, I dont 'need' a 4 door car (no kids etc), but if it is my only car then I would want 4 doors for a number of other reasons.

Some people also just buy 'brands'. ie. I have £23k to spend and I can afford a BMW so I will buy one. End of Story.

Part of me wants the RX8 to be a huge sucess for Mazda, but part of me likes to be different and I dont want to be driving around in a car that becomes too commonplace (aka TT today - no offence rael)

shahpor

I'm sorry but I feel I must comment on the statement made above.

Firstly, the drivers attitude is based on the driver and not the car. I drive a BMW, does this mean that I have a certain attitude? This is a generalisation, and in my opinion an upfair one.

The other point is that we are comparing the cars, not the politics of the company behind them. What has BMW screwing Rover have to do with their cars? I know a lot of people are upset about the way Rover was treated, but this really shouldn't affect which car you buy. Does this mean people shouldn't buy Chrysler Crossfire's because America attacked Iraq?

I know this is your opinion and you are perfectly within your right to express it, but this is something I also feel strongly about, so I think it is only fair that I express my opinion.

Sorry for being so blunt, and I hope I haven't offended anyone as this was certainly not my intention.

Shahpor

jimbobjoe

Car manufacturers spend a fortune each year cultivating the image of their products, and building on the concept of the 'brand'. It is only natural that this is part of the buying decision when choosing a new car. It helps to distinguish between an otherwise bland set of choices for the most part.

It is rare for a buyer to have the freedom to fall in love with a single car and buy it. (can it carry the kids, what about resale values, how much is servicing etc).

With that in mind it is perfectly legitimate for RobDickinson to say that he will never buy a BMW, even if they are amongst the best engineered and most rewarding cars available to drive.
It wasn't having a go at BMW owners.

I'd have a BMW if they weren't so expensive, but I'd never own a Vauxhall. My Dad loves them, has driven only them for years, and thinks I'm silly. But we still get on ok.
:D

The thread started by posing the question "what would you compare it to".

Clearly this is a very subjective matter as people will only compare it to other cars that they would be willing to buy, and will compare it to other cars based on their own prioritised set of criteria (bhp, seats, torque:p, rear wheel drive, brand image etc)

I'm comparing it to the Z350 and a BMW 330i coupe firstly.

18ME

Couldn't have put it better Shahpor.

I too drive a BMW at the moment until the Mazda arrives and to be honest when I first drove the BMW my driving style changed straight away, I no longer drive in the outside lane all the time like when I had my Porsche, I now drive in the middle lane all the time.
:D :D
I don't think you can generalise a certain car to a particular driving style. I've had eight cars in the last two years from a Mini Cooper S to a Boxster S and a Lexus to a Grand Cherokee and I've always been a courteous driver in whatever car.

The exception to the rule maybe Volvos, I'm sure none of there indicators work.:D

morganrogers

Well - just to be awkward , I am afraid I agree with Rob.

I too would never buy a BMW for the same sort of reasons.
THink of it not as a generalization of the whole BMW driving populous but more of an 'allocation of arrogant dangerous drivers'.

For instance - I am sure 99% of BMW drivers are regular (if unimaginative [Joke ! Joke!] ) guys/gals. Howerver , that 1% remaining are made up of idiots who give the cars overall a very bad image, and perform at least 50% of the dangerous , arrogant and just plain rude driving that I encounter.
The badge does seem to attract a certain style of driver.

When I am drivng (which is many many miles....) be it in car or on motorcycle it is the BMWs I watch the most. A volvo may be a bit clueless and wander about a bit , but with the BMWs it is calculated.....

So - in my opinion (are we are all entitled to it) Rob is right. Like it or not BMW drivers do have a certain reputation.

Couple it to the enormous percentage (something like 40% I believe) that do not even take a test drive before buying and you have a car that is bought for the badge - and that will always attract a certain type. (as well as plenty of normal folks too)

M.

PS - I am aware of the irony that none of us have test driven an RX before ordering !

(All opinions purely my own , etc etc etc.....):

shahpor

Well that is fair. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, and it is only right that you express your opinion.

I just though I would state mine so that people realise that opinion is divided on this matter.

If I didn't make my case people might actually believe that it is true! :D

Shahpor

RobDickinson

shahpor - I dont have anything against BMW drivers individualy.

Only yesterday 2 (black 5 series identi-german-boxes) both flashed me to let me out of a junction, I'm sure plenty are realy nice people.

But BMW have a percieved attitude (just like range rover, Volvo, rover et al.) In the same way shell suits or channel outfits 'make a statement'.

If you buy the car your buyin into the publics percieved values of owning that vehicle. Its the same thing that stops people buying an expensive executive car from skoda/nissan/hyundia etc.

As I've said, theres nothing wrong with the majority of their cars, well engineered (but getting well out of their core business atm). Shame they all look so dull....

jimbobjoe

Perhaps a discussion on the perceived image of different brands is better suited to the General Automotive forum.

So back to the original topic:

What cars do you expect the media to compare the RX-8 to, and how do you think it will stand up ?.

What cars do you want the RX-8 to be tested against ?

rael

I too would not own certain cars (for whatever reason) which include Volvo, Rovers, Vauxhall, Ford.....either because there are thousands on the road or they have boring image or the dealers are crap etc...but not because they screwed a competitor. I vote on the car quality.

I have owned BMW, Jags, Mercs. Jeeps, Audi. With BMW I have owned 3, 5 and 7 series at some time and found them all to be superb cars. Each car I drive the same, outside lane. I think it has less to do with the car and more to do with the driving style as today any newish car has the ability for outside lane speeds.

I have no negative thoughts about any specific car manufacturer. The only type that pisses me off completely on the roads are white van drivers irrespective of badge. They seem to hate any cars which are prime, sporty, clean, unusual and will cut up, spit on the car, throw coffee, **** and other rubbish and sometime try to even hit you for fun (all happened to me during via XJS & TTC ownership).

If you have never owned a car that sticks out (as the RX8 will) then you are in for a different experience and some of it will not be positive.

rael

oilman

Wooooo There!!

Aren't we getting off the subject. I was merely trying to compare the RX8, Not it's drivers!

Can we get back to the original question?

The feedback is important to demonstrate whether it has any direct peers and whether Mazda has filled a gap in the market.

Cheers
Oilman

PS. I watch out for all drivers on the road and have probably been cut up by all makes of car in my time! It's not the car but the driver who's the a**hole!

rael

Oilman,

Don't stop the thread irrespective of direction. This forum has been dying too long now and whilst not directly RX8 related and off initial subject it is at least attracting attention.

rael