cw007

After speaking to my dealer this morning. I was discussing the 350z with him - and the top gear rating thereof

A few interesting points came out of the conversation.


1/. Mazda are actually targeting this car directly in the same sector as the 350z. They rate the 350z as its main competitor.

2/. Any bad news about the 350z is good news for the rx8 as they see it.


2/. When i mentioned that "we" dont see it that way - our competitor as we see it is the S2000. He laffed, in all fairness Steve was ex Honda and he didnt rate the car particularly well.

Incidently Honda have a pecular sales bonus for the s2000. Show interest in one and watch the dealers flock round you like flies round the preverbial doo doo.

Each salesman is something like 350 - 1000 quid personal bonus to sell one

RobDickinson

No way do I see the 8 as direct competitor to the 350z.

Direct would = 2 seats, the 8 is closer to the TT thas the 350z (least the TT has 2 rear'seats').

More like the c70 volvo, 325/330ci BMW, X-type, St220mondeo, Subaru WRX, Golf R32, Audi S3, A4 3.0, celica etc are 'direct' comparisons.

Mazda seem to be thinking RX-8 = 350z/TT but with the bonus of 2 decent rear seats. I dont see it that way.

If I didnt want 2 rear seats, i.e. a proper 2 seater then we have a ton of other cars to look at, from mainstream Mr2's, TT's, Elise's, to TVR's, caterham 7 types etc.

The 350z is to me a 'muscle' 2 seater, whereas even as mazda say - 'The RX-8 is not all about Horse Power. If your focus is strictly on that number, stick with the Z.' Ther Rx-8 isnt about BHP, its about driving enjoyment (I hope ).

cw007

Rob,

hence my surprise when i was informed of this by the dealer. Told him Mazda need to rethink there markets if that is the party line.

jimbobjoe

The S2000 is a big competitor for the RX-8 only in competing for our cash, not in terms of being similar cars.

Head-to-head the cars don't compare very easily. For me at least (and I know I'm covering old ground here), I could branch in one of 2 ways. The Rx8 is the best choice in one direction, and the S2000 is the best option in the other.

I can see why they are keeping an eye on the Z350, as it is also a stylish, newly launched, coupe. But it's crap, so no worries there

I can see where the sales bonus for the S2000 comes from. I can save 4 grand by buying from europe (or at least letting motorpoint do it )

But to get back on track :p, people who ordered a Z350 may well have considered the RX-8, that is assuming that they ever heard about it. And if the reviews of the 350Z continue along the lines of Topgear, then there may well be potential Nissan customers wandering over to the Mazda dealerships. But only of course if Mazda ever advertise the damn thing

RobDickinson

Whats the point in advertising a car which you probably cant buy until 2004 at the earliest?

Even us pre-orders will be lucky to see the car in November.

oilman

I'm with Rob on this one.

The 350Z has 2 seats, incomparable!!

I was talking with my Dealer on the way home last night, 3.5 hours. It's very hard to find a direct competitor for this car on the following basis.

1. Price
2. Package
3. 4 doors / 4 Seats
4. Appearance

Mazda have a groundbreaking car here! A four seat four door sports car?? No many of those around!!

Roll on November!!

Cheers
Oilman

MarkW

It has been said before, but the RX8 does not have any real direct competitors. The four seater sports car is a whole new market.

You can compare it to a lot of cars depending upon which criteria are important to you (Price, Performance, Specification etc)

If you want 4 seats compare to 330 Coupe, A4 3.0, WRX, S3, R32, Alfa GTA etc

If you want 2 seats or 2+2 compare to 350Z, TT, Boxster, S2000 etc However some of these cars are more expensive than the RX8.

I can compare it to the S2000 as for me both cars offer me what I am looking for. For someone else, ths S2000 is completely unsuitable.

I think it is likely that the RX8 will appeal to a large and varied number of people once it is launched, as it crosses several boundaries and as such is truly a unique car.

Interesting re the Bonus regarding the S2000, as the salesman who lent me the car last weekend hasnt even called me since to discuss prices.

Cheers
Mark

787B

intresting on the 350z..

at the Oz intro to prospective owners, they (Mazda) had a 350Z at the racetrack.......

Seems without exception everyone was more than happy with the 8`s performance on the track. Clearly (for me) they are different vehicles, and the fact that Mazda had the gumption to put the 350Z indicates just how confident they are. That said, for me, the 8 strikes the balance, whereas the 350 remains compromised.

Intrestingly, Nismo will have a badged 350Z for sale .... cant be too long for a Mazdaspeed version with at least 300BHP.

markymark

Dear 787B,
Do you think you could be a bit more specific. How exactly did the RX8 compare to the 350Z. The Z is indeed a quite different car with much mor power avaliable at low revs , but many less potential revs than the RX8. Also, why do you think the RX8 is better ballanced, or less compromised than the 350Z.

renegade_si

Hmm well I spoke to Rob and T W Whites today (my dealer) and he said there has been NOTHING from Mazda about comparison to 350Z in terms of head to head. The only thing he said were

- Jap cars with heirtge
- limited availability

but thats it. He himself also can't see how they are the same market.

Lensman

My Nissan dealer told me that Nissan don't see the RX-8 as a direct competitor because likewise they don't see the cars in the same market. Except for me.

ChrisW

I was hoping that the Euro power reduction would put an end to this RX8 vs 350Z stuff in the press. I mean 230hp and 4 seats vs 280hp and 2 seats. Not to mention the huge torque disparity.

Any head-to-head is just a series of unfair comparisons - unfair to the 8 to expect it to perform like the Z and unfair to the Z to expect it to be as practical and refined as the 8.

I think part of the problem is Mazda's marketing of the Renesis as a 1.3L. It's really a 2.6 of course. If people knew it was a 2.6 then they wouldn't expect it to perform like a 3.5 and wouldn't consider the cars to be in the same class. But tell people it's a 1.3 and they don't know what to expect - they just think it's witchcraft or something.

rael

I must say that I think the 8, 350 and a whole bunch of other cars (TTC, Crossfire, Alfa GTS's, SLK etc) all compete. When buying a car once looks at a number of criterea including price, seating, engine, mpg, looks, depreciation, franchise, service costs, realiability, quality of material....etc

I would buy a 4 seater with a rotary engine if it outperformed a similar 2 seater with a traditional engine. I think the 8 may take customers from a wide range of cars (and therefore competitors) by its looks and price alone irrespective of other considerations.

rael

ChrisW

I wouldn't necessarily say that two cars were direct competitors just because there are people who might be tempted by either. Is an MX5 a hot hatch competitor? I would say not because they are very different cars with different aims. But they have some qualities in common and depending on your priorities you might consider both of them.

I have considered buying a huge range of cars from 15K to 30K over the last two years. They were all competitors for my money, but not really in any other sense.

I think group tests in car magazines work best when the cars are clearly trying to do the same thing (eg. Hot Hatch, convertible, coupe...) and they can then fairly objectively decide which cars do the job best. And leave it to the reader make the more subjective decision of which type of car they actually want and how much they want to spend.

The problem I have with the few comparisons I have seen between the RX-8 and the Z so far is that they always conclude that the cars are really quite different and it depends what you want from a car. So what was the point comparing them in the first place?