Let me see if I understand something correctly. Maybe I dont. The GM coils were designed to fire once every 4 strokes of the engine at no more than 5000rpm. The temperature surrounding the GM coil would be significantly lower. The Mazda coils must fire 3 times per revolution of the rotor at up to 9000rpm. Why would the GM coils be any better?

 

Ah ha! He has you there Sir! Nice one Al! Hey whatcha gunna charge me for new coils? I may order them myself and have one of the guys here help me if there are any takers for a case of beer...or two...

 

^sounds fun...

 

If someone could donate 1 brand new OEM ignition coil, and 1 brand new GM yukon coil, I would happily perform some tests and get some real results.

The test methodology is simple.

Run both coils on the test bench firing at the rates it would fire at 9000rpm for 240 hours (leaving test bench operating for 10 days continuously).

See which one fails first, and if neither fails, evaluate the voltage and current characteristics of the unit thereon after.

I'm surprised why BHR has not donce this to prove their products longevity?

We can further simulate the effects of heat by putting these two coils in a test environment inside a toaster oven set for max temperature (500 F) to put some stress on these coils in a real life environment.

 

ill help you out if you wanna drive to guelph.

and al, one thing you forgot to mention though, remember the rotor isnt doing 9000rpm. however i can see what you are saying. there is a serious lack of real head to head comparison information here.

 

I keep seeing people write about getting coils replaced under the powertrain warranty...Is this true? I know for a fact that it has to be my coils that are causing the rough idles, power loss, shuddering and stalling. So what's the truth? Are they covered?

Oh and thanks for the offer Greg, Guelph's a little outta the way though

 

Al, now that I think about it, I think this bad boy needs a compression test. From what I'm reading, it's either the coils or the need for a new engine (it IS an 04 AT after all). I dont want to have to go through the cost of replacing everything only to be told that the engine needs replacing under warranty, y'know? Sorry for hijacking the thread (kind of). :S

 

Bishop how much kilometres do you get to a full tank city driving. Thanks let me know since you got and 04 auto I got an 05 auto

 

Um, I dont really know to be honest! It aint good I know that.

 

+1 for some kind of objective test data

 

Congrats Greg! Your the second person I have ever met in Ontario that realizes that. Okay everyone (other than Greg) if the engine RPM is 9,000, how fast are the rotor tips actually turning????

Btw the coils are still firing 3 times per one revolution of the rotor.

There are 3 rotary companies out there that are the real deal as far as I am concerned. Racing Beat, MazdaTrix and AWRRACING. These guys supply Mazdacomp. If they dont make it, its probably not worth having. They all have dynos and do there own testing!

 

Our test methods have been done on multiple levels involving the coils being actually installed on BHR vehicles. MazdaManiac ran what was our first prototype and has been using the same coils for almost a year now. He's got probably 6 to 10 HPDE track sessions, and about as many autocross sessions on the coils. Many of these sessions were held when track temperatures exceeded 140 degrees.

Erick, Easy_E1, has been running our coils on the street using the first production version of our upgrade and has done so without any failures. He's been using nitrous for most of that time as well. Charles R. also has one of our early production sets.

I know the dwell characteristics for the yukon coils have been posted I'll have to see about hunting it up.

 

haha, i was even gonna include the number in my post, but i decided to not be too much of a smart ***. lol. I was just pointing out, yes, 3 firings per revolution of the rotor, but thats a far cry from 9000rpm. Im curious now if everyone else knows that. i thought it was common knowledge for all us rotards.

this thread is turning into a BHR hate thread. lol. I'd just like to state my original opinion, if i had the money i would buy this from them. It wouldnt be the first thing i would do to the car, but i would definitly get it. however, im going to be getting the OEM coils for my car after the winter because of cost and the fact that i dont have a problem with OEM coils. More money to spend on fuel (and oil) to and from track and autoX events that im planning to take part in after the winter. haha.

 

There are plenty of products which are worth having that are not manufactured by rotary companies for the RX8. All three of those companies do make great products but to say that everything else isn't worth while is silly.


The RENESIS doesn't put the kind of stress on the Yukon ignition coils that would cause the coils to operate outside of their capability. The fact is that the yukon coils share the same dwell characteristics which are required of the RX8 ignition system. There's plenty of information and research about this subject including several early adopters.

Either way, currently we have approx 60 kits in the field and a pre-order list that continues to grow every day.

In regards to "testing" and dyno graphs...we have already done all that. We have done our testing on the street, on the race track and done both in some of the harshest climate that exists in the United States. We don't test our products on customer cars, we use our own.

I don't believe that this is a BHR hating situation. The fact is these questions have all been covered several times so I invite you to either search for the information or PM some of the 60 people who have bought our kit and get their impressions.

 

So can we see the data?

Nothing speaks louder as proof of a technical excellence of a product than it's facts,figures,numbers, data.

 

What do you want to see?

 

All the test data that you have performed on these coils versus the stock coils.

you wrote "In regards to "testing" and dyno graphs...we have already done all that. We have done our testing on the street, on the race track and done both in some of the harshest climate that exists in the United States. We don't test our products on customer cars, we use our own."

So let's see the data and the results of these tests. What are these tests? What methodology was employed?

 

First, I'll let Charles speak since much of this has been covered already:


The methodology applied in the testing was to create a workable product, put it on our own cars and subject it to the most extream conditions and situations we could produce. This ranged from the track to daily driving.

There's also a results/impressions thread which can you browse where various RX8 owners who are using our kit have posted their opinions about the product.

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-aftermarket-performance-modifications-23/bhr-ignition-system-results-impressions-163089/

 

Alright thanks for trying. But as I said, it is still just a longwinded paragraph explanation. There are some numbers there see that I would like to expand on..

You say the yukon coils are good for 50,000 volts and 120mA those are technical specifications. It makes no mention on the duration of firing? how long it can fire for? How does this compare to stock oem coils? What are "its voltage and current" ratings from your testing? How did you come out those numbers? Were they pulled from the box/ tech data sheet? If you got them from a lab, what was the lab bench setup? What were the parameters?

Without any direct comparison between this and the stock coil, it's not really proving a product's worthiness.

I read the entire thread on "BHR COIL impressions".... and as an engineer, impressions are just that.. impressions... nothing is factual without numbers/figures/statistics. Those are king in proving anything.

I'm not bashing your product, mind you. I understand your business model as there are very VERY VERY FEW people out there that truly are of stats and numbers. Which means, a greater portion >95% of your buyers will be buying your product simply from "impressions of other people who've had used it".

You also mentioned in a "qualitative statement", that your testing was done on nitrous and force-induction renesis engines. Does that mean no testing was done on naturally aspirated engines? Furthermore onto this, are there any factual gains for NA renesis?

You talk about general smoother torque curve. There is no dyno graph to demonstrate this, so again this is just an observation?

I'm trying to make clear what you are trying to sell here.

 

I am just going to say one thing...these coils were not for power gains...if there are any, it's a bonus....the real reason for these is the fact that the OEM coils are a known weak link.

If the yukon's lasted all the "abuse" that BHR threw at them, (boosted applications with no misfires), than that says enough in my book. I would rather buy a set that will last anything I can throw at them and be done with it pretty much for the life of the vehicle. Just my 2 cents. Carry on.

 

Thanks for posting that dude. I could not have said it better my self.

 

Snake oil and Kool-Aid.

 

There are timing lights that can tell you if the coil is firing as it should or if it is misfiring. I had a chance to try it at a local track and they never missfired, when the oem coils started to lose bits after 40minutes of tracking.

I think that this is more of a matter of necessity, stock coils will not handle some drive styles for a long time while the yukon coils will. You can keep yourself replacing the stock coils frequently (i killed mines in 17500miles..) or simply try an upgrade.

@Footman: what kind of tests would you do on a set that is already installed?

 

is this snake oil good for pre mixing? lol

 

Not sure about the snake oil but the kool-aid should be!