Second Hand or Not
10-24-2004, 09:28 AM
#1
RX-8 wannabe no more
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Second Hand or Not - DEFINATELY NOT! NEW IT IS!
I’ve seen a few second hand RX-8 come and go in SE Queensland. Even a couple of Winning Blue – but more often than not they have been over-priced (compared to new) or gone too quickly for me to get a look at.
Over at South City Mazda (who I have never dealt with before) – they have a 2003 Winning Blue http://www.southcity.com.au/UsedVehi...y6wCUbzQ%3d%3d. The downside is that it’s done 33243 kms already.
Now I would have absolutely no intention of paying close to the laughable $57K they’ve advertised for a 2003 especially with all the mileage. (is kilometreage a word?)
As I get ever closer to my financial targets (set by wife and should be achieved around Jan/Feb 2005) the incentive to buy second hand diminishes. So my instincts are telling me to stay away but I can’t help wondering if it’s worth checking out.
Does anyone have any sage words of advice or feedback?
Over at South City Mazda (who I have never dealt with before) – they have a 2003 Winning Blue http://www.southcity.com.au/UsedVehi...y6wCUbzQ%3d%3d. The downside is that it’s done 33243 kms already.
Now I would have absolutely no intention of paying close to the laughable $57K they’ve advertised for a 2003 especially with all the mileage. (is kilometreage a word?)
As I get ever closer to my financial targets (set by wife and should be achieved around Jan/Feb 2005) the incentive to buy second hand diminishes. So my instincts are telling me to stay away but I can’t help wondering if it’s worth checking out.
Does anyone have any sage words of advice or feedback?
Last edited by kiwimeat; 10-29-2004 at 06:44 AM.
10-24-2004, 09:34 AM
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Seeing as you are buying in Jan/Feb 2005, wait till around then and you should be able to get yourself a deal on the leftover new 2004 built stock.
Of course the only thing you risk doing this, is that all 04 Winning Blue's may get sold by then, but you'll definitely save yourself thousands doing it this way.
That's how I got a deal on mine back in January 04 when the 8 had just been awarded COTY and dealers weren't busting to do deals.
Of course the only thing you risk doing this, is that all 04 Winning Blue's may get sold by then, but you'll definitely save yourself thousands doing it this way.
That's how I got a deal on mine back in January 04 when the 8 had just been awarded COTY and dealers weren't busting to do deals.
10-25-2004, 01:41 AM
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Kiwimeat
Couple of months ago I wrote an account on the Australian club site detailing how I bought my car. There are a couple of points in my story that might be of interest to you, but instead of picking them out and rewriting them I've repeated the whole story below -- at the risk of offending anybody reading this who also read the original account.
1. I read all the road reports I could find in the local library's magazine rack, and on the internet and gathered enough technical information to demonstrate to car salesmen that I wasn't some wide-eyed patsy who would believe every wonderful thing they told me.
2. I then went to a couple of different dealerships to get an idea of the core of the sales pitch that they deemed most appropriate to lay on me, and of the starting point price of the car. At the time (May) that price was $68000 but there were the usual hints that perhaps something better could be achieved, depending on etc etc etc.
3. Back to the internet to see what the market place was saying about RX8. There are any number of sites. I found <carsales.com.au> to be as good as any of them but I'm not on commission so make your own arrangements. I concentrated on "Dealers Near New and Demo", and "All States", in refining my search and could almost always find seven or eight low km cars on offer. Over a period of a couple of weeks I could see the ones that hung around because they were too highly priced, and the ones that sold in a couple of days because they were attractively priced.
4. Ultimately I found a car that suited me after I was satisfied that I understood the marketplace. I should say at this point that I had also canvassed the private sellers' offerings via my search engine though I preferred to buy through a dealer if I could get a comparable deal. The car that I selected was the colour I wanted, had 1200km on the clock and was priced at $58960 at a Melbourne (not my home town but accessible) dealership. I thought that was a reasonable step down from $68000 for a three month old car.
5. I knew my local dealer (whom I had totally avoided through all of the above) had a similar car -- about 1400km and priced at $61000, probably negotiable. I rang the dealer (deliberately didn't visit the showroom) and said something like, "Couple of weeks ago you had an RX8 demo. Do you still have it?" "Yes", he said. I said,"I've found one on the internet that I am going to buy (I told him the address of the site on the net and the details of the car on the site). I'd rather buy locally than in Melbourne. Do you want to compete?" "Let me do some numbers," he replied, "and I'll call you back."
6. When he rang back he offered me his car for $58000, stamp duty paid and registered in my name. Not only was it the best price I could find, but it saved me the $2000 stamp duty I would have paid in Melbourne.
7. The car is a cracker, I'm a very satisfied customer and I have a local dealer who owns me and is happy to have me as a customer.
Now, the essential element of that story is that I knew the second hand car I bought. When I first drove it the saleman didn't let me out of his sight and there were very strict conditions on how I could drive the car, so I knew how most of the 1400 kms on the car had been put there. Any second hand RX8 would need to have very low kms and you would need to be confident about how it was driven. Otherwise I'd say go new. And I think Nojooc's advice is top stuff.
Good luck.
Couple of months ago I wrote an account on the Australian club site detailing how I bought my car. There are a couple of points in my story that might be of interest to you, but instead of picking them out and rewriting them I've repeated the whole story below -- at the risk of offending anybody reading this who also read the original account.
1. I read all the road reports I could find in the local library's magazine rack, and on the internet and gathered enough technical information to demonstrate to car salesmen that I wasn't some wide-eyed patsy who would believe every wonderful thing they told me.
2. I then went to a couple of different dealerships to get an idea of the core of the sales pitch that they deemed most appropriate to lay on me, and of the starting point price of the car. At the time (May) that price was $68000 but there were the usual hints that perhaps something better could be achieved, depending on etc etc etc.
3. Back to the internet to see what the market place was saying about RX8. There are any number of sites. I found <carsales.com.au> to be as good as any of them but I'm not on commission so make your own arrangements. I concentrated on "Dealers Near New and Demo", and "All States", in refining my search and could almost always find seven or eight low km cars on offer. Over a period of a couple of weeks I could see the ones that hung around because they were too highly priced, and the ones that sold in a couple of days because they were attractively priced.
4. Ultimately I found a car that suited me after I was satisfied that I understood the marketplace. I should say at this point that I had also canvassed the private sellers' offerings via my search engine though I preferred to buy through a dealer if I could get a comparable deal. The car that I selected was the colour I wanted, had 1200km on the clock and was priced at $58960 at a Melbourne (not my home town but accessible) dealership. I thought that was a reasonable step down from $68000 for a three month old car.
5. I knew my local dealer (whom I had totally avoided through all of the above) had a similar car -- about 1400km and priced at $61000, probably negotiable. I rang the dealer (deliberately didn't visit the showroom) and said something like, "Couple of weeks ago you had an RX8 demo. Do you still have it?" "Yes", he said. I said,"I've found one on the internet that I am going to buy (I told him the address of the site on the net and the details of the car on the site). I'd rather buy locally than in Melbourne. Do you want to compete?" "Let me do some numbers," he replied, "and I'll call you back."
6. When he rang back he offered me his car for $58000, stamp duty paid and registered in my name. Not only was it the best price I could find, but it saved me the $2000 stamp duty I would have paid in Melbourne.
7. The car is a cracker, I'm a very satisfied customer and I have a local dealer who owns me and is happy to have me as a customer.
Now, the essential element of that story is that I knew the second hand car I bought. When I first drove it the saleman didn't let me out of his sight and there were very strict conditions on how I could drive the car, so I knew how most of the 1400 kms on the car had been put there. Any second hand RX8 would need to have very low kms and you would need to be confident about how it was driven. Otherwise I'd say go new. And I think Nojooc's advice is top stuff.
Good luck.
10-25-2004, 06:26 PM
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wouldn't you be worry for the previous owner thrasing the car and not look after it? Especially when it's rotary, i wouldn't go for Demo or used, but it's just my 2 cents
cheers
cheers
10-25-2004, 06:42 PM
#6
"RX-8 my stress reliever"
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Did you know that Winning Blue is a 4 cylinder? http://www.southcity.com.au/UsedVehi...y6wCUbzQ%3d%3d
10-25-2004, 07:55 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by ypwpat
wouldn't you be worry for the previous owner thrasing the car and not look after it? Especially when it's rotary, i wouldn't go for Demo or used, but it's just my 2 cents
cheers
cheers
Decided to give this one a miss and hold out for a new one - or a very well loved Demo (some dealerships keep their demo's very well - but not all).
10-25-2004, 09:42 PM
#8
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Agree with nojooc entirely. End of Jan/Feb 05 should be a great time to get a new 04 build at a good price. Remember end of month is when salespeople/dealers are usually working to meet their sales targets, and the end of the week/end of the day is when they are most susceptible to deal (or to tell you where to go!)
Granted, high mileage can be an issue, but IMHO it can sometimes be a good sign in a relatively new car, meaning it has been used more frequently on longer distance commutes which mean probably (a) all mechanicals are properly warmed with each drive and (b) the vehicle has done more cruise and less stop/start motoring with subsequent less wear and tear on clutch, gearbox, brakes etc.
The key thing is to try to find out some of the car's history and identify a little about the previous owner and driving style. This car has a 3 yr unlimited k warranty, so early cars, especially those well-maintained by good dealers should be good buys.
My car has done 35,000k. I do regular long trips (plus one track day). Everything is still very tight and I don't abuse the car. Despite the mileage, it would be, IMHO, a great 2nd hand buy.
BTW, the 8 was an exception to my usual rule of buying 'near new'. I am very happy for someone else to wear the initial depreciation.
Granted, high mileage can be an issue, but IMHO it can sometimes be a good sign in a relatively new car, meaning it has been used more frequently on longer distance commutes which mean probably (a) all mechanicals are properly warmed with each drive and (b) the vehicle has done more cruise and less stop/start motoring with subsequent less wear and tear on clutch, gearbox, brakes etc.
The key thing is to try to find out some of the car's history and identify a little about the previous owner and driving style. This car has a 3 yr unlimited k warranty, so early cars, especially those well-maintained by good dealers should be good buys.
My car has done 35,000k. I do regular long trips (plus one track day). Everything is still very tight and I don't abuse the car. Despite the mileage, it would be, IMHO, a great 2nd hand buy.
BTW, the 8 was an exception to my usual rule of buying 'near new'. I am very happy for someone else to wear the initial depreciation.
10-26-2004, 05:30 AM
#9
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I'm going to go and have a look at the car tomorrow.
According to the salesman it has been a company car with full service history and is in immaculate condition....but then he would say that.
Trying to find some comparison prices to work out what a good deal would be. They are asking $57K but given that it's done 33K and a 5% price drop is imminent I would think much closer to $50K.
Anyone else got some sage advice on 2nd hand prices.
According to the salesman it has been a company car with full service history and is in immaculate condition....but then he would say that.
Trying to find some comparison prices to work out what a good deal would be. They are asking $57K but given that it's done 33K and a 5% price drop is imminent I would think much closer to $50K.
Anyone else got some sage advice on 2nd hand prices.
Last edited by kiwimeat; 10-26-2004 at 08:32 AM.
10-26-2004, 08:07 AM
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10-27-2004, 01:52 AM
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Not!
Well I went down South City Mazda, and took it for a quick test drive. Mechanically it seemed sound. Clutch was pretty tight.
Wear on the interior is quite disappointing - a missing button cover on one of the electric seat adjustment (lumbar), noticeable scratch marks on many of the plastic surface areas and seat backs.
Externally the car is much better. With just the too be expected stone chips (all fairly minor) but there were quite a few scratches on the Alloy wheels.
Another downside is that the oil cooler has not been Hymee'd and I actually dislodged some small stones from it when inspecting all the damage on the front.
But the car has 38K kms on the clock not 33K!
Moreover, on checking the log books there were no dealer stamps or service information recorded for the 10,000 & 20,000 km services. Raised this with salesman who waffled but didn't clearly answer.
So I sat down with the Salesman and his manager - went through the cliched sparring re price. Essentially they wanted $58075 drive away for a 16 month old RX-8 Luxury Pack with a Wing, Fender Strakes & Mats (pretty dirty) with wear and tear to interior and exterior, plus 38K on the clock.
They offered $19,000 trade-in for my SP20 which was very fair but wanted $39,000 change over.
Given that you can get new for $64K drive away (possibly less) their $5K "discount" met with stoney silence from me. Of course they argued it was $10K but I wasn't buying it.
At this point it was time to go back to work. The SP20 seems somehow less of a car on the drive back to the office.
Whilst I would love a good deal on a second hand RX-8 - I don't feel this isn't the car for me and I don't think I can arsed dealing with the salemen to get it to a price that I could justify the obvious (and admitedly mostly minor) defects.
Wear on the interior is quite disappointing - a missing button cover on one of the electric seat adjustment (lumbar), noticeable scratch marks on many of the plastic surface areas and seat backs.
Externally the car is much better. With just the too be expected stone chips (all fairly minor) but there were quite a few scratches on the Alloy wheels.
Another downside is that the oil cooler has not been Hymee'd and I actually dislodged some small stones from it when inspecting all the damage on the front.
But the car has 38K kms on the clock not 33K!
Moreover, on checking the log books there were no dealer stamps or service information recorded for the 10,000 & 20,000 km services. Raised this with salesman who waffled but didn't clearly answer.
So I sat down with the Salesman and his manager - went through the cliched sparring re price. Essentially they wanted $58075 drive away for a 16 month old RX-8 Luxury Pack with a Wing, Fender Strakes & Mats (pretty dirty) with wear and tear to interior and exterior, plus 38K on the clock.
They offered $19,000 trade-in for my SP20 which was very fair but wanted $39,000 change over.
Given that you can get new for $64K drive away (possibly less) their $5K "discount" met with stoney silence from me. Of course they argued it was $10K but I wasn't buying it.
At this point it was time to go back to work. The SP20 seems somehow less of a car on the drive back to the office.
Whilst I would love a good deal on a second hand RX-8 - I don't feel this isn't the car for me and I don't think I can arsed dealing with the salemen to get it to a price that I could justify the obvious (and admitedly mostly minor) defects.
10-27-2004, 02:20 AM
#12
rock-->o<--hard place
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Well left. No service log is a real problem IMHO. But I have to say as an existing owner I am glad there are people out there defending the resale :D
10-27-2004, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Choppy
I was told by an 8 driver i met recently he got his leather back brand new titanium gray for 54K on the road.
I know the dealers are more willing to do a deal these days, but to take some $12-13K off the price of one?
I smell BS.
10-27-2004, 02:29 PM
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Given the '8 drinks oil and the concerns around flogging it when cold, I wouldn't buy one used unless I was confident it had been looked after.
Well left.
Well left.
10-27-2004, 05:01 PM
#16
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Actually he is not one to bullshit..
We swapped paid prices for the car including i got mine for 64 withour leather. He paid 54 With leather but no other options etc. He will show me the reciept next time i go over.
They have dropped down in price already compared to the recommended retail price and he has only had the car for a month. Took delivery the same week.
Not sure how he got the car it could of been a fleet buy with other cars for his business.
Regards
Phillip
We swapped paid prices for the car including i got mine for 64 withour leather. He paid 54 With leather but no other options etc. He will show me the reciept next time i go over.
They have dropped down in price already compared to the recommended retail price and he has only had the car for a month. Took delivery the same week.
Not sure how he got the car it could of been a fleet buy with other cars for his business.
Regards
Phillip
10-27-2004, 09:07 PM
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Best price i could get for leather pack brand new was $61,300 on the road. (2 weeks ago)
That was after some hard negotiating at one dealer then ringing all other dealers and getting them to better the last ones price.
I thought it was a good deal.
That was after some hard negotiating at one dealer then ringing all other dealers and getting them to better the last ones price.
I thought it was a good deal.
10-27-2004, 10:05 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by CMac
Best price i could get for leather pack brand new was $61,300 on the road. (2 weeks ago)
That was after some hard negotiating at one dealer then ringing all other dealers and getting them to better the last ones price.
I thought it was a good deal.
That was after some hard negotiating at one dealer then ringing all other dealers and getting them to better the last ones price.
I thought it was a good deal.
Would you like to come and negotiate on my behalf when I'm getting mine in a 2-3 months time?
10-27-2004, 10:26 PM
#19
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How come the RRP of the 8 is raised now... When I got it last year it was only $67500 leather pack drive away with my free floor mat and petrol.... and the yen is loosing ground. It does not make sense, Mazda Australia
10-27-2004, 10:49 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by takahashi
How come the RRP of the 8 is raised now... When I got it last year it was only $67500 leather pack drive away with my free floor mat and petrol.... and the yen is loosing ground. It does not make sense, Mazda Australia
Perhaps Mazda Australia are trying to creep the price up so that by the time the 5% Import Duty Reduction takes effect on 1 Jan 2005 they don't actually have to knock ~$3000 off the real price.
Other importers are already offering the 5% (or more) reduction (Honda on Odesseys and Accords), and I've heard of Nissan Dealers doing the same (or better) for 350Z's. I would expect MA and dealers to be equally realistic with the RX-8.
10-29-2004, 04:14 AM
#21
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Well I rang the dealer we've bought our last 3 Mazda's off and was it was relief to be treated with the appropriate respect, and not as some mug punter.
My regular saleman also confirmed that he would be more than happy to be talking around the same numbers as Cmac scored his for. So for roughly 3-4K more than I was being asked to pay for a well-used RX-8 with 38K on the clock I can I have a new one drive away.Of course still waiting to see what they will offer as trade-in on my SP20.
He also mentioned that Mazda are offering good price support to dealers to keep the sale of cars going through to the New Year, and it already includes recognition of the 5% Tariff reduction.
He can deliver a Winning Blue in leather pack in about 10 days or in about 4-5 weeks if that one goes.
Now to work on the missus...who knows maybe I might be Winning Blue in 2004.
ps thanks to Cmac for the information by e-mail - very useful. I owe you a beer or two.
My regular saleman also confirmed that he would be more than happy to be talking around the same numbers as Cmac scored his for. So for roughly 3-4K more than I was being asked to pay for a well-used RX-8 with 38K on the clock I can I have a new one drive away.Of course still waiting to see what they will offer as trade-in on my SP20.
He also mentioned that Mazda are offering good price support to dealers to keep the sale of cars going through to the New Year, and it already includes recognition of the 5% Tariff reduction.
He can deliver a Winning Blue in leather pack in about 10 days or in about 4-5 weeks if that one goes.
Now to work on the missus...who knows maybe I might be Winning Blue in 2004.
ps thanks to Cmac for the information by e-mail - very useful. I owe you a beer or two.
Last edited by kiwimeat; 10-29-2004 at 05:00 AM.
10-29-2004, 05:11 AM
#24
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Eh Kiwi, good luck, I bought a demo from Hamilton...yeah yeah I'm in for drama, except Mazda provide 3yr free everything here (service etc) and I'm pretty sure i can work out the wrinkles in 3 yrs. NZ$55k on road with a bit of fruit added and we only have the leather pack aussie equiv option. I'm looking at being home in a year or so and is looking like it will be cheaper to import the rx rather than buy again!
10-29-2004, 06:23 AM
#25
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Check out the signature & quip!
Thanks for all the good wishes..... you guys are so nice
Well I just asked my wife - her response was "Well what's there to discuss" as a statement not a question.
Further clarification is that this means "you are going to buy one anyway" not "no way you going to get one now/soon!" :D
Now whilst I still have to run some figures and actually do the negotiation with the dealers I am a damn sight closer to owning an RX-8 than before.
Well I just asked my wife - her response was "Well what's there to discuss" as a statement not a question.
Further clarification is that this means "you are going to buy one anyway" not "no way you going to get one now/soon!" :D
Now whilst I still have to run some figures and actually do the negotiation with the dealers I am a damn sight closer to owning an RX-8 than before.