Motec. Have you seen this?
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Motec. Have you seen this?
Thread Starter
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From: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by rxturbo
I know there are a lot of aftermarket ECUs out there now but in my experience there is nothing better than a MoTec, We have benn working along side MoTec for 15 years now and they have developed so new goodies for us Rotary lovers, The new M800,M600 and M400 will work very well on a Rx8, they have software programed now for the electronic metering pump and drive by wire throttle, also they run there leading iginition in either wasted spark or split leading both running rotary split, The wide range of control from these units are way above the rest. If you need any info I can help with your questions, We have in our own race car a fully loaded M800 Ecu and fully loaded ADL Dash along with all the sensors and software,
Originally Posted by rx8turbo
well, The m800 will work as a piggyback unit and it will control traction control and other items you throw at it. Idle speed control air cond and other things, The m800 can be configured to any controllred item with its user adjustable input and output controls. I have a lot of work with MoTec and know the team, and if there are most things that need doing with rotarys and there cars then Ive had my fare input.
So i wouldn't say its a waste of money considering what it can do, and put along side with the MoTec dash the uses are infinate.
So i wouldn't say its a waste of money considering what it can do, and put along side with the MoTec dash the uses are infinate.
Originally Posted by rxturbo
Yes MoTec have specific software for the Renisis motor, They have been for many years now been writing software for the rotarys with factory crank angle sensors and tps switches for the ser 4, 5 and then also for the ser 6 and cosmo motors with there ref and sync crank pick ups also with there electic metering pump, And now the reason for my post is because as a qualified dealer I just thought I would tell people in America and the world that they accomodate for the reneisis motor. Including its electric throttle and metering pump and its single pick up crank wheel and manifold solenoid controls 4 and 6 port plus sequential injection and ignition. Now also Ive been working along side them to write up some software for the fuel pump duty control because as you know rx8's have no fuel return line and use the fuel pump in a duty cycle setup to control fuel pressure. now if there is an ecu out there that can do all this plus more well tell me. All of these item come with the base model Motecs and there options are data logging, advanced functions, lambda options wideband and other options mainly for racing.
It is exciting but pricey... will anyone ever consider that. I will be interested to know more for sure and see if there is any more benefit of tuning a NA Renesis. If it is 4000$ for 10kW then it is hard to imagine my negativity about this. It is only about 13ps for a fully tunable (very similar to Motec) in Japan. If it is so it will be a very arguable choice. Of course when you have a full exhaust and intake system + the wildcard $30 mod
then it will gain extra benefit.
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Imagine the Motec on a supercharged RX8. That would be nice. Anyone for a 2nd morgage on their house :D
On an N/A though it is a lot of money to swollow for a small increase.
When it comes to engine management though I don't think you can get much better than Motec. A couple years ago I worked with a friend designing all their promotional material/brochures. Learnt a lot about all the features available.
On an N/A though it is a lot of money to swollow for a small increase.
When it comes to engine management though I don't think you can get much better than Motec. A couple years ago I worked with a friend designing all their promotional material/brochures. Learnt a lot about all the features available.
No, you can't get better than Motec. Very nice stuff. Phil is a Motec Dealer.
Phil had a Motec driving the Renisis in the drag car January 2004. In fact, it might have been at the end of 2003. It was then we started investigating more umm, affordable, options. That is where we decided to go with the "TSI" unit that has been referred to as the Ric Shaw unit. TSI are no longer a company, but I have contacted one of the former partners since he has gone out on his own, and we are looking at using one of his units for the S/C project.
Cheers,
Hymee.
Cheers,
Hymee.
Phil had a Motec driving the Renisis in the drag car January 2004. In fact, it might have been at the end of 2003. It was then we started investigating more umm, affordable, options. That is where we decided to go with the "TSI" unit that has been referred to as the Ric Shaw unit. TSI are no longer a company, but I have contacted one of the former partners since he has gone out on his own, and we are looking at using one of his units for the S/C project.
Cheers,
Hymee.
Cheers,
Hymee.
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It seems like Hymee thinks it is good stuff but pricey... much like liquid gold. 
Maybe I should have wished for a birthday present other than a RP short shifter :p
Well ... father's day is coming up LOL :D
Just kidding. I still cannot justify 4K on Motec, but I LOVE to have it.
Maybe I should have wished for a birthday present other than a RP short shifter :p
Well ... father's day is coming up LOL :D
Just kidding. I still cannot justify 4K on Motec, but I LOVE to have it.
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From: Gold Coast Australia
Phil being a Motec dealer should be able to get a better price on a group buy of the system for your S/C , HECK IF YOU ARE GOING TO SPEND 5-7 THOUSAND SURELY another few wont hurt ?
Hyme if someone decided on your S/C BUT WANTED IT WITH A MOTEC could u guys organize it .??
Better start being extra nice to the wife
cheers
michael
Hyme if someone decided on your S/C BUT WANTED IT WITH A MOTEC could u guys organize it .??
Better start being extra nice to the wife
cheers
michael
Originally Posted by Lock & Load
Hymee if someone decided on your S/C BUT WANTED IT WITH A MOTEC could u guys organize it ??
So I guess the answer is yes. That is what he does. I'm sure you can appreciate that all that would be time consuming and costs quite a few $$$$.
Cheers,
Hymee.
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From: Europe
You can perfectly run a Renesis with 2 separate EFI Technology Euro-1 ECUs (or some equivalent ECUs from other brands too), each costing £500 GBP. You would have to add an Electronic Throttle Body Controller at the same price but not if you keep the original ECU to run some OEM features like Stability Control or dashboard, and the ETB then.
Only mod needed (on top of wiring loom adaptations of course) : new e-shaft sync wheel, fitted on the front pulley for example.
There are enough output and inputs on these Euro-1 to cover for the 2 leading, 2 trailing plugs, 6 injetcors, 3 level S-DAIS, oil metering pump, ...
The Motec solution is very interesting for higher level racing, where - well sometimes - people understand you need to spend a litlle bit of money to get a good engine management systems.
F
Only mod needed (on top of wiring loom adaptations of course) : new e-shaft sync wheel, fitted on the front pulley for example.
There are enough output and inputs on these Euro-1 to cover for the 2 leading, 2 trailing plugs, 6 injetcors, 3 level S-DAIS, oil metering pump, ...
The Motec solution is very interesting for higher level racing, where - well sometimes - people understand you need to spend a litlle bit of money to get a good engine management systems.
F
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Hymee... talking more and more sounds like it is the last thing I will do to the car. I might have the intake, manifold and high fo cat first and until I have the turbo or sc, I think I will leave MoTec if it is that expensive. I can only afford Phil once...
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Maurice ( canzoomer )
Posted this in his section of the forum , now there seems to be an further upgrade to his software .
New development:
As many of you know we use a Trust e-manage board as one of the components in our devices.
We now are upgrading these to the new Gold e-manage hardware, upon request.
Cost is $150, and adds a lot of new tuning features, including a "closed loop mode fooler" and ability to use more input sensors.
It also allows ignition advance tuning based on throttle position, which is a real bonus.
In my experience so far the changes vastly improve the tuning experience, and eliminate most chances of the PCM adjusting fuel trims.
cheers
michael
Posted this in his section of the forum , now there seems to be an further upgrade to his software .
New development:
As many of you know we use a Trust e-manage board as one of the components in our devices.
We now are upgrading these to the new Gold e-manage hardware, upon request.
Cost is $150, and adds a lot of new tuning features, including a "closed loop mode fooler" and ability to use more input sensors.
It also allows ignition advance tuning based on throttle position, which is a real bonus.
In my experience so far the changes vastly improve the tuning experience, and eliminate most chances of the PCM adjusting fuel trims.
cheers
michael
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Well it is a baby step towards the right tract but it is a miles from the e Manage and a light year from MoTec.
Hymee may laugh at the "closed loop mode fooler" although he may not admit that in the forum
Hymee may laugh at the "closed loop mode fooler" although he may not admit that in the forum
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I heard that.... but I am not sure he can use all functions of the e Manage program. Ignition advance timing is such a basic thing of a piggyback, if he said it is a new function, good on him. The Canzoomer now is a not a bad piggyback but surely is not the best.
Last edited by takahashi; Mar 15, 2005 at 05:45 AM.
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Originally Posted by Hymee
2 x 500 pounds is about 3,000 of our dollars!
And I would not be surprised if the European price in Eur is similar to the price in AUD (that is 4000 Eur).
F
Plus your loom
I saw one Phil was installing for a customers car, and he said it was about 2 grands worth.
I'll have to ask him about the ETB thing. He ran the Renesis with the Motec ages ago. And the RX-8 already has the wideband lambda. So I thought it would piggyback/splice off that.
Cheers,
Hymee.
I saw one Phil was installing for a customers car, and he said it was about 2 grands worth.
I'll have to ask him about the ETB thing. He ran the Renesis with the Motec ages ago. And the RX-8 already has the wideband lambda. So I thought it would piggyback/splice off that.
Cheers,
Hymee.
Hymee, keep me up to date on the person doing the former TSI unit. As you I'm looking for an affordable unit for my kit. The Emanage is a good price but as I can see it has it's limitations. Someone said something of a Gold version??
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
Hymee, keep me up to date on the person doing the former TSI unit. As you I'm looking for an affordable unit for my kit. The Emanage is a good price but as I can see it has it's limitations. Someone said something of a Gold version??
Will do!Cheers,
Hymee.
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From: Gold Coast Australia
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
Hymee, keep me up to date on the person doing the former TSI unit. As you I'm looking for an affordable unit for my kit. The Emanage is a good price but as I can see it has it's limitations. Someone said something of a Gold version??
Maurice ( canzoomer )
Posted this in his section of the forum , now there seems to be an further upgrade to his software .
New development:
As many of you know we use a Trust e-manage board as one of the components in our devices.
We now are upgrading these to the new Gold e-manage hardware, upon request.
Cost is $150, and adds a lot of new tuning features, including a "closed loop mode fooler" and ability to use more input sensors.
It also allows ignition advance tuning based on throttle position, which is a real bonus.
In my experience so far the changes vastly improve the tuning experience, and eliminate most chances of the PCM adjusting fuel trims.
cheers
michael
OMFG.
I really worry about some of the marketing things that are tried out in an attempt to sell product. Why the fark do you want to fool the computer any more!!!
These e-manage type tuning systems already trick the UCU/PCM into thinking there is a different amount of air going in that is really going in. Now they come along and are trying to fool it when it is closed loop mode as well. In closed loop mode, the ECU is trying to maintain the ideal AFR. Not the ideal AFR for power, but for proper burn. Since this is typically on reasonably light throttle application, I can't see why you would want more power anyway. And the computer is trying to adjust to stoich anyway. So how do you fool it? You could fool the O2 sensor reading I guess. Or you could fool it to think it is not in closed loop, and go into open loop mode "sooner". I really cant see any plausible reason why you would wan't to either of those.
Someone please expain to me.
Cheers,
Hymee.
I really worry about some of the marketing things that are tried out in an attempt to sell product. Why the fark do you want to fool the computer any more!!!
These e-manage type tuning systems already trick the UCU/PCM into thinking there is a different amount of air going in that is really going in. Now they come along and are trying to fool it when it is closed loop mode as well. In closed loop mode, the ECU is trying to maintain the ideal AFR. Not the ideal AFR for power, but for proper burn. Since this is typically on reasonably light throttle application, I can't see why you would want more power anyway. And the computer is trying to adjust to stoich anyway. So how do you fool it? You could fool the O2 sensor reading I guess. Or you could fool it to think it is not in closed loop, and go into open loop mode "sooner". I really cant see any plausible reason why you would wan't to either of those.
Someone please expain to me.
Cheers,
Hymee.
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I can see one reason, Hymee, that I mentionned ages ago : the ability to run in slightly lean burn conditions for improved fuel economy at part throttle and cruise modes.
But then again, I'm not very keen on piggybacks that increase or reduce AFR by a given percentage whatever the conditions!
I give that old example of mine again :
It's hot, it's summer, it's sticky and your ECU programs massive overfuelling at WOT and higher RPM for catalyst protection, say +19% fuel. So you program your CZ to take about 20% off. It works, you get more power with less fuel, ideal and logical isn't it?
6 month later, a blizzard blows in Arizona (I know, it is quite an extreme example :D) and it's -15°C outside. So cold the catalyst stays below 960°C and therefore, the ECU programs 0% overfuelling.... Still, your very obedient CZ will take off the same 20% as before and here you are running stoich or even lean at WOT, high RPM....
rolleyes:
I prefer to wait until someone cracks that bloody ECU software...
But then again, I'm not very keen on piggybacks that increase or reduce AFR by a given percentage whatever the conditions!
I give that old example of mine again :
It's hot, it's summer, it's sticky and your ECU programs massive overfuelling at WOT and higher RPM for catalyst protection, say +19% fuel. So you program your CZ to take about 20% off. It works, you get more power with less fuel, ideal and logical isn't it?
6 month later, a blizzard blows in Arizona (I know, it is quite an extreme example :D) and it's -15°C outside. So cold the catalyst stays below 960°C and therefore, the ECU programs 0% overfuelling.... Still, your very obedient CZ will take off the same 20% as before and here you are running stoich or even lean at WOT, high RPM....
rolleyes:I prefer to wait until someone cracks that bloody ECU software...
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Originally Posted by Hymee
Dare I say, we are working at it.
Cheers,
Hymee.
Cheers,
Hymee.
For me, it is probably the most ultimate mod I can think of. Real professional level tailor-made calibration for my car, suiting my specific requirments. A wee tad of throttle progression here, a bit less fuel there, rev limiter a 1000 more RPM higher (that is at 8500 on my SP 5MT)... Hours of fun.
I know, I'm a sad engineer.:D
Fabrice
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