tdiddy

About a month ago I set out to see if I could get the Greddy Turbo Upgrade kit with the Emanage Ultimate to work for N/A cars. My reasoning behind this was simple; the upgrade kit comes with the Ultimate, a wiring harness, and a trick to force open loop plus some other stuff that I don't need untill I go FI.

Anyway after installing the kit and running it with zeroed out maps, I quickly found out that there was a problem in the upper RPM range. This is due to the fact that Greddy puts a resistor in the upgrade kit harness to stop the Auxiliary Port Valve Motor from opening the Aux Ports. In order to fix this I performed THIS mod suggested by GTAW. Thanks Again GTAW!

After performing the mod I thought everything was working correctly until last week when I started noticing a flashing CEL in the upper RPM range. This time I decided to unhook everything and research.

Well here is what I found...

The initial Jumper settings that come with the Upgrade Kit are:
JP1 - Injector Input/Output CH-1 = 1-2 (Addition Only)
JP2 - Injector Input/Output CH-2 = 1-2 (Addition Only)
JP3 - Injector Input/Output CH-3 = 1-2 (Addition Only)
JP4 - Injector Input/Output CH-4 = 1-2 (Addition Only)
JP5 - Injector Input/Output CH-5 = 1-2 (Addition Only)
JP6 - Injector Input/Output CH-6 = 1-2 (Addition Only)
JP7 - Ignition Input = 1-2 (Normal)
JP8 - Ignition Output = 2-3 (12 volt)
JP9 - Airflow Signal Input/Output = Open (Normal)
JP10 - Airflow Signal Input 2 = 1-2
JP11 - OPTION 1 = Open (Normal)
JP12 - OPTION 2 = Open (Normal)
JP13 - Knock Signal Input 1/Water Temp Input = Open (Normal)
JP14 - Knock Signal Input 2/Water Temp Input = Open (Normal)
JP15 - RPM Signal Input = 1-2 (Normal Input)
JP16 - Frequency Input/VTEC Input = Open (karman IN)
JP17 - Frequency Output/VTM Output = 1-2 (karman Output)
JP18 - Injector Input/Output Signal CH1~6 = 1-2 (Addition Only)
JP19 - Injector Signal CH-A = 1-2 (I/J, Sub I/J, NVCS, Relay(-))
JP20 - Injector Signal CH-B = 1-2 (I/J, Sub I/J, NVCS, Relay(-))

The wire connections that come with the Upgrade Kit are:
Ultimate Connector A (12 Pin)
Pin #3 - Ignition Input Signal CH-4 (intercepts) goes to PCM Pin #2Z - Rear Leading Ignition Coil (A)
Pin #10 - Ignition Input Signal CH-3 (intercepts) goes to PCM Pin #2AA - Front Leading Ignition Coil (A)
Pin #4 - Ignition Input Signal CH-2 (intercepts) goes to PCM Pin #2AC - Rear Trailing Ignition Coil (A)
Pin #5 - Ignition Input Signal CH-1 (intercepts) goes to PCM Pin #2AD - Front Trailing Ignition Coil (A)
Pin #8 - Ignition Output Signal CH-4 (intercepts) comes from PCM Pin #2Z - Rear Leading Ignition Coil (A)
Pin #9 - Ignition Output Signal CH-3 (intercepts) comes from PCM Pin #2AD - Front Trailing Ignition Coil (A)
Pin #11 - Ignition Output Signal CH-2 (intercepts) comes from PCM Pin #2AC - Rear Trailing Ignition Coil (A)
Pin #12 - Ignition Output Signal CH-1 (intercepts) comes from PCM Pin #2AA - Front Leading Ignition Coil (A)

Ultimate Connector B (18 pin)
Pin #15 – Airflow (voltage) Input (intercepts) comes from PCM Pin #5N – MAF (C)
Pin #16 - Throttle Pos. Sensor Input (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #5F - Accelerator (E)
Pin #17 – Injector Input Signal CH-1 (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #2M – Front Primary Injector
Pin #18 – Injector Input Signal CH-2 (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #2J – Rear Primary Injector
Pin #19 – Injector Input Signal CH-3 (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #3A – Front Primary 2 Injector
Pin #20 – Injector Input Signal CH-4 (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #3D – Rear Primary 2 Injector
Pin #22 – Airflow (voltage) Output (intercepts) goes to PCM Pin #5N – MAF (C)
Pin #24 – ECU Ground (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #4J – Fuse Box Ground?
Pin #25 – ECU (Ignition) Power (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #4Q – Fuse Box Power?
- This wire also (piggybacks) connects to the Dongle Red Wire
- This wire also (piggybacks) goes to PCM Pin #1L – Secondary Shutter Valve
Pin #26 – Injector Input Signal CH-7/A (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #2G – Front Secondary Injector
Pin #27 – Injector Input Signal CH-8/A (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #2D – Rear Secondary Injector
Pin # 30 – Injector Ground (Sensor) (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #4A – Fuse Box Ground?

Ultimate Connector C (14 pin)
Pin #33 – Crank Angle Signal Input (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #2U – Eccentric Shaft Position
Pin #43 – Injector Output Signal CH-5 (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #4O – Secondary Air Injection Pump
- This wire also (piggybacks) connects to the Dongle Green Wire
Pin #44 – Injector Output Signal CH-6 (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #1L – Secondary Shutter Valve

Ultimate Dongle
Bluegreen Wire #1 – (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #4Y – Accelerator (D)
Bluegreen Wire #2 = (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #4Z – Refrig. Pressure Switch
Green Wire – (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #4O – Secondary Air Injection Pump
Red Wire – (piggybacks) comes from/goes to PCM Pin #4Q – Fuse Box Power?


From this information I noticed a couple of things.
1. In order to use the Upgrade Kit for N/A changes are needed to the Jumper settings in order to be able to trim fuel because all the jumper settings are set to Addition Only.
2. In order to use the Upgrade Kit for N/A changes are needed to the wiring harness in order to be able to pull fuel from the Secondary Injectors because they are wired to the sub injector map.
3. Possibly the wierdest thing I found is that the input and output ignition channels don't match yet they are wired to the same PCM Pins???
CH-1 - Input = Front Trailing - Output = Front Leading
CH-2 - Input = Rear Trailing - Output = Rear Trailing
CH-3 - Input = Front Leading - Output = Front Trailing
CH-4 - Input = Rear Leading - Output = Rear Leading
I double checked myself just to make sure I wasn't crazy. Anyone have any suggestions as to why this is?

Before going any further I need to identify the necessary wiring changes and the corresponding parameter settings. But I thought that this was some information that some people might find helpful.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

wow,

great info...

thank you for you service to this forum....

wow!!!

beers

mikeschaefer

/slap Greddy

I understand they don't want people to pull fuel when turbocharged so they can help save their own butts but come on. Have a little faith in the tuners!

tdiddy

Thanks Swoope!

The way the upgrade kit is wired they don't intercept the injectors they piggyback them. They only intercept the ignition and airflow. This still leads me to believe that they are forcing open loop with the Dongle (attached to the Accelerator, Refrig. Pressure Switch, SAIPR, and Power) using the NVCS Map.

To use the RX8 upgrade kit version of the ultimate and harness for N/A, I think I will need to get a new 14 pin harness. This will allow me to intercept the airflow, ingnition, and injectors. I will need to change the jumper settings so that I can trim fuel. And while Im at it I might as well rewire the secondaries and P2's so that the secondaries are wired to CH-3/4. This is needed because the sub injector map doesn't have ouput channels and therefore I cannot trim fuel from that map. Hopefully, these changes will allow me to force open loop and add/trim fuel at any RPM/Load point while still having full control over the ignition. But first, I need to figure out what that RX8 ignition chip is doing???

mikeschaefer

Sounds like the upgrade kit then is almost useless for original greddy kit owners. You could get the ultimate and 14 pin harness like MM did for cheaper, because it sounds like you'll need to wire it all yourself and set the jumpers yourself anyway.

tdiddy

Not necessarily. There are differences between the ultimate that comes with the turbo upgrade kit and the universal ultimate. This could be why mysql has had problems running anything other than the original EM2 file with his turbo and I am starting to think that this is where my problems with the flashing CEL came from.

Basically my car ran great when I first installed the Ultimate upgrade kit and 0'd out the maps except for the APVM not opening. However, before I did the APVM mod I changed some of the parameter settings (engine code, I/J, ect...). This was a BIG mistake. It seems that the parameter settings that come with the RX8 version of the upgrade kit are custom and cannot be reset without going back to the original EM2 file??? The original settings that come with the RX8 version of the ultimate match the way things are wired. The problem is that if I make any changes to any of these parameter settings I cannot figure out how to change them back. If anyone knows how to do this please let me know???

Also, the reason I say I might need to get a new 14 Pin harness (Connector C) is because the 14 Pin harness that comes with the upgrade kit doesn’t have any wires to connect the injector output channels. If the ultimate handles things the way MM says the Emanage Blue does HERE, then I may not need to connect the injector output channels. I have not confirmed this yet nor have I made any changes because from now on I want to understand exactly what I am changing and how it should affect the car before I make a change.

mikeschaefer

Well for now we know that MM's Ultimate and car run fine together. Mysql's is running alright, but not exactly perfect.

mysql101

mine is running well with the upgrade ultimate and the original greddy turbo kit. I had issues running the generic ultimate, and I've had other unrelated issues due to the substandard hoses in the kit bursting.

All said and done, I think the ultimate is a very good upgrade to the emanage blue and I would recommend it. I'm just waiting for Sept when the non beta v2 of the em2 software comes out.

tdiddy

^^I agree. The Ultimate is a good upgrade from the Emanage Blue.

In addition to this, there are differences between the Universal EMU and the Turbo Upgrade Kit EMU. These differences show up when trying to use the universal ultimate with the wiring harness that comes with the Turbo Upgrade kit.

I think MM is using the universal ultimate but he has done his own wiring and JMP settings. That would explain why his works with his parameter settings. However, his parameter settings don't work with the EMU that comes with the Turbo Upgrade Kit.

kiet1

Anyone know what wiring was done to make the EMU work with the turbo kit.
i bought the universal emu and the wiring harness the plug and play one which doesn't have any dongles/black boxes on it it only had the little chip which turns out is the ignition adapter.
been playing around with the maps and it has a huge lean spike in it around 3500rpms.
can anyone please help???

mysql101

According to Mohd, Greddy does not sell any EMU with the rx-8 ignition chip aside from the upgrade units. They also do not sell the RX-8 ignition chip separate, so you couldn't buy it even if you wanted to.

I have a feeling you're not working with the same hardware the rest of us are using. MM is using a standard unit, but I don't think his has any "ignition" chip.

tdiddy

Did you buy THIS kit? Does your EMU have THIS sticker on it? Which plug and play harness do you have? The Bloomslang, Autosport, or the RX8 turbo upgrade kit harness? Does your "little chip" have the RX8 sticker on it like THIS? Answer these questions and we might be able to help...

kiet1

Wow.
Sorry i've been neglecting to check the posts.
Been so busy with the car lately.
Okay to answer the first question did i buy that kit.
The Japan & Australian RX8 models are apparently different to the US Models something to do with the throttle body and intake not sure exactly but the Australian Greddy Kit only comes with the Emanage Blue and we do not get the ultimate upgrade kit it does not work for the Australian version of the greddy kit.
My EMU does not have that sticker on it i have the universal EMU.
But i do have the plug and play harness for the EMU which comes with the Ignition Adapter(Little Chip) but it does not have that sticker on it.
I've been playing around with my EMU for the last few weeks and have found that the Harness that is bought seperate is different to the one in the Turbo Kit.
1. My one does not have the dongle. ( little black box)
2. The Sub Injector Map. Channels A/B are not wired to anything on the rx8 they end with a little plug that connects to nothing.

So for me to control the P2 injectors and get them to come on early i had to cut the p2 injector wires and splice them in so i could use them on the sub injector map.

C_RX8

Hey guys, i finally had the greddy Ultimate kit installed from california and it works fine. I have no check engine light and when i step on the gas and give it some thrust, it my AFR reads at 11.5. Current equipment that is installed with the Kit: EMU with it labeled RX8, greddy boost controller, turbo timer, and oil catch can. I am going to get the HKS SSQV BOV installed tomorrow and recirculate like MYSQL101 has illustrated in a past thread. They dynoed it on DYNAPACK and it scored 215 horsepower....i am more than happy.....i will provide more details upon the total completion of the kit. If you order it, please get it straight from greddy with the EMU not the blue emanage(don't settle for less).

mikeschaefer

interesting

mysql101

Just talked to mohd, he said:

"ok, i got #15931500 in front of me

the back welds on #15931500 doesnt match the rx-8 welds

even tho the borads are the same"

CoupeM

Is the boomslang harness setup for NA tuning or FI? What if I were to go FI in the future, can I still use the same harness?

mysql101

MM said he was using boomslang's harness..

C_RX8

I am using the EMU and it works fine with the Renesis motor. But when you add on aftermarket parts to it, it needs some tuning. The EMU was R & D with the basic Greddy turbo kit only.

kiet1

I got my upgrade kit in yesterday.
Had it installed today.
I wonder what differences in the Australian Car are there to the US car.
Kit didn't work out of the box for me.
i cleared the map and had to retune a new map.
Emanage does work nice though better than the old one i had.
With the upgrade kit boost now holds and spools up alot quicker.
I do get a slight powerloss with the blocking plate in but no lean spikes or stalling.
For some reason on my car the NVCS map controls one of the solenoids for the variable intake i've used the map to hold the flap open at all times.
In the past when i have attempted this with the flap open when backing off the accelerator the car would stall but with the blocking plate on the extra air doesn't cause the car to stall.
I'm still trying to figure out how the dongle works on my car and how to force the car into open / closed loop.
will do some more experimenting and research tomorrow.

Moon Assad

Id like to see your build, bring it by Pettit.

tdiddy

I am changing my jumper settings to match my wiring changes and I was wondering, should JMP9 (Airflow Signal Input/Output) be set to Open (Normal) or 1-2 (Mazda Hot Wire)? Does the Airflow Sensor Signal Increase as Airflow Increases?

Also, should JMP13 (Water Temp Input) and JMP14 (Intake Temp Input) be set to Open (Normal) or 1-2 (Temp Sensor)?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

9 is set to normal.
13 and 14 stay on open because the water and air temp circuit doesn't work.
I suppose you could set them to 1-2 in anticipation of a future firmware revision that does enable them.

tdiddy

Thanks Jeff. That’s exactly what I was thinking. Go ahead and wire in the sensors and set 13 & 14 to 1-2 so that if they ever get it working, I am good to go.

When wiring Injector Channels 1-6 for add/trim, the manual says to sever the connection of the ECU wires between the eManage injector input and output signal wires. Is this true? Is this how yours is wired?

I want to use Injector Channels 5/6 to run the P2s with the sub-inj function, is the Ultimate capable of using both the injector input and output signals for the sub-inj function? If so, then when I wanted to sever control of the P2's from the ECU, would it be as simple as cutting the input signal wires and using the output signal wires to run the injectors stand-alone?

I want to use Injector Channels A/B for the NVCS function, the manual doesn't say much and since CH-A/B doesn't have output signal wires, are the input signal wires capable of running the NVCS function? Is this how yours is wired?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Don't actually attach them to the sensors yet.
If you do, the engine temp gauge won't work and the PCM will think the car is cold all the time and will overheat.

I'll comment on the injector wiring in a bit.