iemdan

iTrader: (2)

Hey guys, this is going to be a rant about my recently installed hankook ventus v12 evo k110 tires, but ultimately i am asking for suggestions of tires that meet some requirements below. thanks.

So, I have ridden on the hankook ventus v12 evo k110 for the past 300 miles or so and... I hate it. To start off, you should know that these replaced the oem bridgestone re040, which everyone on this forum seems to hate. I have't had that much experience with different summer performance tires, but the only thing that started to bother me about the oem was the loud road noise after wearing at 24k miles (but that was masked by the exhaust anyway). They were very responsive, provided great feedback, and provided plenty of grip in dry or wet. What's not to like?

Since I have switched to the ventus v12's in 245/40/18 on 9.5" wheels (figured the stretch would help stiffen the sidewall), the steering has become numb and slow to respond. In addition, lane changes causes the car to sway left and right like a mercury sable. I read about the soft sidewalls, but damn, i didn't expect it to be this terrible, especially with all the praises on this forum and tirerack reviews.

I really don't understand the praise, does this tire actually have greater overall grip than the oem's? I don't know because although i drive spirited at times, i haven't hit the limits with either tires, but i've hit the limit in turning response and stability with the hankook's. the soft sidewall is apparent at 30 mph if you cut left then right. at 80 mph.. it is damn right scary, wagging left to right to left at least 4 times (though i must say that the tires feel planted, but just the sidewall is flexing)

OK so for those who have this tire, is my assessment correct? Are you all living with the decreased steering response and soft sidewall for the 'increased grip'? I am willing to sacrifice absolute grip for tires that are more 'fun' (read: responsive, stiff) for my daily driving. My everyday driving satisfaction has been greatly diminished with these tires.. too squishy!

so, let's get to the point, can someone recommend me performance tires that can

1. last 25k miles of mixed highway and spirited driving (maybe a few autocross events)
2. crisp turning response like the oem bridgestone re040
3. cost around $150 per tire in 245/40/18
4. low road noise like the ventus v12

p.s. i am on tein s-tech with tokico d spec. i have ridden on the hankook's at 33psi and 38 psi cold on 80 degree days. the increased tire pressure did not help much.

thanks for reading, and please suggest some replacement tires!
(some tires i was comparing are the yokohama s-drive, falken fk452, nitto invo, etc..)

RX8Soldier

iTrader: (24)

I have no experience with hankook ventus v12, but I just recently installed falken fk 452's same specs as yours.
So far, in wet/dry weather, the grip is much better than my last set (225/45/18 Dunlops). The road noise on the highway is minimal and the price is similar to what you're asking.
I have noticed a pull to the right when slowing down, but it's not too bad. And that only happens when stopping aggressively in the city.
My rear doesn't slide out as easily when I make aggressive U-turns, and I feel much more planted to the road during highway cruising/ accelerating to pass, especially in wet weather.

Yes, I drive quite aggressively, but safely Spirited driving isn't as fun when the only twisties your city- nay, province/state has are all located at stoplights, or many, many kilometers north...

Anyways, all in all, I really like these tires. I may go wider next time, but I'll stick with the model (only reason I didn't go wider is because I would have had to have fender work done).

Hope this helps some

rickeo

iTrader: (1)

I just installed the 245/40-18 V12 EVO's on the OEM wheels and god damn, i'm not the only one! The sidewall feels like jello. Definitely not buying these again.

phrenetiK

iTrader: (6)

falken 452s sir. they will probably only last about 15k if you do a few auto x events.

Munchy

iTrader: (2)

im on falken fk452... stretched tho.

i too am finding my car pulling to the right, wtf?

NotAPreppie

This makes me think that something else is wrong.

iemdan

iTrader: (2)

thanks for the input and i hope you don't take this the wrong way, but that is the exact kind of review that lead me to the ventus v12! promises of increased GRIP! i've learned my lesson and from now on i am not purchasing tires on promises of increased grip because honestly, when do you get the chance on the street to utilize all that grip. i'm much more interested in the turning and response characteristics of the tires, whether or not it has stiff sidewalls or are they jello like the ventus. i want to be able to take a corner and come out stable and planted instead of feeling like the tires need a second or two to regain composure. the oem re040 were superb in my opinion in this respect, even at 7 years of age.

i'm with you!

2 for the fk452!

can you elaborate? car was fine with oem wheels and tires just prior to the installation of new wheels with the ventus v12. perhaps i exaggerated a little bit - by numb i mean relative to the oem tires, which were.. almost twitchy, which i prefer over the smoothing characteristics of the current tires. the hankooks absorb imperfections in the road very well, but it is to the point where it numbs the steering wheel and you can probably drive with your knees and not be afraid of tramlining either. great for long highway cruises but it saps the fun out of driving the 8.

off the top of my head, other tires were the firehawk oval 500, federal ss595, a kumho tire that i cant nail the model at the moment, dunlop sp sport maxx

40w8

Yeah, I put 225/40r18 Hankook Evo's on, and they definitely felt numb compared to my Kumho SPT's, but they immediately had better grip on the track.

If you like to feel the road, holes, rocks, and everything, the SPT's are for you.

I've never heard so many reviews of a tire so opposite as the EVO Hankook, but I got them to work at 46 hot front, and 43 hot rear measured right after coming off the track.

They didn't work at 44 hot front and 41 hot rear so I'm not kidding about higher psi.

So all you guys that are disappointed, up the psi, and come back with another review.

iemdan

iTrader: (2)

what pressure do you run daily? ill increase the pressure to 40 cold and see how that responds. even if that does stiffen the tire, is it recommended to run the tires at that pressure? would the center wear prematurely? i'm not looking for maximum grip on a track, so i don't know if increasing the pressure to 40 psi for daily is good for tread wear.

i also realized that the oem were rated as 140 tread wear.. i suppose i should be looking at a different class of tires to match that performance rather than the ventus at 300 tread wear. i got almost 25k out of the oem.. anyone think i can do the same with the dunlop star specs (~$200 each)?

still taking tire suggestions!

rx 8speciale

iTrader: (3)

there is nothing wrong with a comfy summer tire, like others said ,bump the psi if u want stiffer, im running 38 psi daily for comfort and bump to 42 for track . The grip on this tires is (nurburgring rx8speciale) approved , they also feel more sticky than the falkens 452 i used to run

40w8

I drive them 400 miles home from the track with the same psi (44psi hot front-41hot rear since I'm not building as much heat cruising), and they ride better with 40 series than the SPT's in 45 series.

I was worried about center wear too, but after measuring 7k miles of wear it is wearing slightly more on inside front where it should be with tracking the car at -1.7 deg camber.

These Hankooks are 280 treadwear, and max psi is 50 cold.

Since I had 40 psi at 50 deg f, it gains 6 psi at approx 140 deg f on track, so you could run 56 hot.

These are the best tires I've ever run, and I don't have to fiddle with the air anymore.

I'm gonna test at 48 hot front and 45 hot rear next track days, and I can just leave the psi alone until next track day.

If you pump that bish up, it ain't gonna flex!

Vlaze

iTrader: (14)

You guys are running those tires way too high in tire pressure. Norm spec is 32~37 for majority of tires and I run at times 34~35 on my V12's, but over 40? You're going to lose grip at that rate.

RotaryTherapy

iTrader: (1)

I'm so glad I didnt get the V12s from Dan, and changed my mind to the FK452 at the last moment. The reviews I read on the V12s were all because of the soft sidewall.

Vlaze

iTrader: (14)

I've had no such issues with the sidewall, then again I'm not tracking my car if that's where the issues are coming from. It also depends on the tire size spec you get for sidewalls. Great traction all around but I will say on wet roads taking a 90 degree turn onto another road it can break loose easily if you push it. Then again I am running slightly stretched tires with -2.5 camber so that is likely half the reason for that.

pcs

iTrader: (2)

I don't seem to have any problems with them at 245/35/19 - though I tend to leave the really 'spirited' stuff to the track, for which i have a different set of wheels/tires... on the street though - I'm perfectly happy with them.

iemdan

iTrader: (2)

i hear what you guys are saying and i must reiterate that my opinion of these tires is not from a perspective of track or racing performance. the rx8 is my 3 season car and it was the crisp and direct steering response that was the abundance of my decision to pull the trigger on the purchase. everything just felt tight.. and oh so right. those test drives were on oem tires.

i have since worn them out and replaced the tires with the hankook ventus v12 and i feel that the rx8 has lost its nimbleness. the gratification from the once sensitive, communicative steering is missing. NOW i finally understand the importance of tires and its impact on a vehicle's personality.

You see what i am getting at? It's not total performance that i am after, but rather a lively ride to work, or to the grocery store. i don't doubt the maximum grip of these tires (it's definitely there). every review always has someone praising them for their grip, praising it because it sticks when they mash the gas at a light and crank the wheel for a 90 degree turn.. yes i agree it does that well! but i value precision over max grip.

i am going in to check my alignment on saturday, maybe i have excessive front toe-in. ill post those previous specs and new ones when i get the chance.

thanks for all the comments! especially the ones who disagree with my assessment because i'm not trying to deter people from buying these, i just want to say that the sidewall is soft and you should be well aware of that and its accompanying consequences.. or advantages for those who enjoy the very compliant ride.

iemdan

iTrader: (2)

why do you say he/we are running them at too high of a pressure? if the ride is compliant, tire wear acceptable, and grip is great.. why do you feel the pressure is too high? he said the max is 50psi cold and we are under that manufacturer-set limit. i'm sure there is a safety factor even with 50psi.

Vlaze

iTrader: (14)

Reality is with every car/tire setup there is an optimum range you want to be within, for the 8 it's within the 30's. At 40+ psi your tire is quite stiff and you're sacrificing both grip running that high as well as losing some wheel protection going over bumps in the road. Since you mention tracking, you're actually giving yourself a lot less tire grip in the corners when running sigh a high pressure. Same goes for on the street when going around a corner.

Not only that, but with a high pressure tire on the street it will transfer the shock going over potholes from the tire directly to the wheel and depending on the severity, doing more damage.

Lodes

EDIT: I gave PSI, but I always use kPA and I got confused. I run at 240kPA on the street (35PSI) and 260 cold on the track which is (38PSI). Sorry for the mistakes.. I did not change any of the text.

Here's my 2 cents.

Remember, that a used up tire will be more direct and communicative than a brand new tire. So if you stick with the same brand you will get the same feeling.

When I first got the Hankook V12, I was very disapointed but that was because it was very greasy for the first 300 miles. I know they always say to drive carefully the first 500 miles, but never had that happen before. After that the tires performed flawlessly.

I personally run them at 34 PSI on the street and I bump it up slightly to 36 PSI at the beginning of the track day. These tires have amazing grip both in the dry and wet (for the price) and definitely a lot more than the bridgestone RE040. I have to admit that the bridgestone were very communicative tires, and that's what I liked the most about it, but the EVO actually made it safe to drive in the rain with a bit of spirit (or hard at the track). The EVOs will start making more noise as they age (I have 15k miles, two track days on them), and they become stiffer but still have enough tread to last the whole year if I am nice to them or the whole summer. The Bridgestone lasted me 12k miles.

Recomendation:
I don't know of any cheap tire that will match what you want. Whatever you do, DO NOT BUY THE SUMITOMO HTR ZIII. They are cheap, they last a long time, but they have horrible grip while breaking in a straight line. Apart from that, they have even softer sidewalls than the EVOs and squeal at every occasion. They are better in the rain than the RE040.

If you are willing to break the bank, I have heard very good reviews of the Micheal Pilot Super Sport from a friend who's won NASA Miata Spec, and runs them on his BMW M3. He says they stick like glue in the rain, and in the dry they stick like R tires. They might last 20k miles if you're nice?

The Dunlop? Star Specs have gotten more expensive than they used to be, are a bit softer than other tires its class, and will not last 25k miles but they are pretty good.

The bridgestone RE040 are dangerous in the rain, super expensive, but very responsive. I believe that most bridgestones RE050, RE11 have that very responsive characteristic, but when you read the reviews they don't have the best grip in their class and are usually even less good in the rain.

Note: that all tires I have experience with were on the same dimension as stock.

40w8

You mean, I spoon feed you, you have the ability to test, and you didn't?

I had the fortune to track on a drizzly 60 deg f day that made the track like summer ice with unwashed dirt and oil.

On the first run with 44 psi hot (about 120 deg f tire temp), I was slipping likw everyone else.

I upped the pressure to 46 hot for the next run, and wow!, way better traction!

A few hours late on the last run, the track was completely dry, and the traction was still phenomenal, and I could toss the 8 without any sway.

These tires seem to be hinged right on the crown edge, whereas, most tires have a very stiff area on the crown, hince the loose feeling which means more psi.

Don't knock it if you haven't tried it.

iemdan

iTrader: (2)

hola, update. i did not get that alignment done, but had a chance to autocross for the first time on them. see the following times to see what happened when i increased pressure
1 47.433 38psi (the instructor kept saying to go slow, so i listened)
2 38.906 38psi (picked up almost 10 seconds haha)
3 37.419 38psi
4 37.261 38psi
5 37.054 38psi
6 37.482 38psi
7 ~36.5 38psi (got a chance to ride in another rx8 just prior to this run, so i learned that i can go harder haha, also had an instructor sit in the car)
8 ~35.8 40psi (car felt more responsive! but the time may indicate i was getting better accustomed to the course and the car. this is my first autocross btw)


so take away from this is that i agree that more pressure equates to better times in my case. don't know if it's increased grip or just better response / less roll. several other people at the event recommended the dunlop star specs. one had experience with the ventus v12. i quote him saying, "i think the stock tires on my prius are better than the ventus" he was c stock leader.

i'm still undecided what i want to do, but i may see what the cost is to swap to either star specs, hankook rs3, falken fk452, etc. overkill for a 90% street car, but i think i would better enjoy the ride.

cajunrx8

Well I will chime in that what I lost in nimble steering and razor sharp response with Hankooks I made up for in wet traction, cold weather traction, noise, and wear.
The RE040's were unreal below50deg, the car felt like it is on ball bearings, the Hankooks stick till about 40deg then slowly let go. I do run them at 35psi and do not track it but drive rapidly on the street in correct conditions of course.