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I think eventually it would be a good idea to put in a section covering Mazda dealers.
People could post their opinions and experiances that they've had with various Mazda dealers. If you had a good buying experiance, give them props. If they talked down to you, treated you like dirt, went back on their word, or tried to screw you out of money, we need to know. Tell us if the sales staff is knowledgeable or if they don't know their butt's from a hole in the ground. There is a section like this for Subaru dealers on i-club, and if you browse through it, you can easily see that all dealers are not created equal.
This will be a valuable resource when the car finally gets released. We will know not to waste our time with dealers who are slapping huge mark ups on the RX-8. It would also be great if we could read everyone's collective opinons of the different service departments. Then we can make informed decisions on who to trust with our vehicles. Often a dealership can have an unscrupulous sales staff, but an excellent service department, as is the case with my local Toyota dealer. It can happen the other way around to.
I don't guess we need to start it up yet because no of us will really be in the market for another six months or so. But it wouldn't hurt though since many people here seem to own Mazdas already, so share your experiances. Feel free to use this thread until the actual section is created.
So, what do you think? Good idea?
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I think that it would be a good idea, just so that people can get an idea of dealers that have had problems in the past. And even though the RX-8 won't be out for several more monthes... it can stilll help those on this forum that are in the market for another Mazda-
Coming from a non-Mazda owner, I'm curious to see how good or bad the dealerships are in my area. I've only heard of some negative comments on the sales depts, but I'd really like to know how well the service departments stack up.
The reputation of the sales dept doesn't really bother me, since I'm fine with driving up to 2 hours away to buy the car at a decent price. The service dept, however, is more important to me, since I probably don't have the luxury of driving a long distance to get the car serviced.
But you have to watch out for slander. A VW forum guy got slapped with a lawsuit by a dealer he was badmouthing over poor service. The case is still unresolved, and set a precedent in the auto industry.
Those are good words of caution Toadman, I wouldn't want anyone to get sued. I bet everyone else on that board was grateful to know of that guys experiances though. That is really a good system of checks and balances though. I'm not familair with that VW case, but I'm guessing if the dealer wasn't putting the screws to this guy, he wouldn't have slamming them on the internet. I, for one, would want to know which dealers had a habbit of doing stuff like that so I could avoid them.
Just be careful with what you post. Phrase things professionally and stick to the facts and avoid name calling. It's not illegal to have an opinon, especially when it is supported by facts.
Just from my experiances, I'd tend to trust the individual's story before most dealers word anyway. My old neighbor was a car salesman and he would brag about his conquests. He took great glee in padding his pockets off of other peoples ignorance. At least I know all of his old tricks and I can watch out for them.
My old neighbor was a car salesman and he would brag about his conquests. He took great glee in padding his pockets off of other peoples ignorance. At least I know all of his old tricks and I can watch out for them.
Inquiring minds want to know. Without mentioning any names what "old tricks" should we watch out for? I'm pretty good when I walk into dealers and I'm usually very well informed, but many of them are so shady it's nearly impossible to avoid all of their tricks. So I'd be interested in any advice anybody could give.
I once heard of a piece of paper that every car dealer has for every car on his lot, and included on this paper is his cost along with some itemization of the additional costs wich sum up to the MSRP. Apparently, every dealer must show you this paper when you ask for it. This is beneficial for the buyer because then he can haggle down the price as far as actual dealer cost! I heard of people who purchased cars at the same price that the dealer bought the car for by doing this. Supposedly the dealer receives other kick backs from the manufacturer for selling the car even if he doesn't make a profit on the sale. I'm pretty sure this piece of paper I'm refering to is not the Monroney sticker. If anyone has some better information on this, I'd like to to understand it more.
The VW lawsuit was dropped shortly after. It was a no-win situation for the dealer. They would have received tons of negative publicity whether they won or lost the case. Think about it: who would buy a car or get service from a dealer if that dealer had successfully sued a customer who complained about service?
What I found most interesting about the incident is how quickly word had spread on the net. Within a few days, the thread was linked to well over 100 different message boards!
That being said, I agree that a "dealer forum" would be something that we'd have to be careful with. There's a fine line between expressing one's opinion and outright slander.
Okay, the Northstar Rotary Rockets to the rescue. :D
Since we have this format going already for ALL vendors on our vendor feedback page, I discussed this change with our webmaster. He's taking our vendor site offline this weekend, and adding a "Mazda Dealer" category.
I hope this makes for good business relations between Mazda and the enthusiast sector. It certainly will be a valuable tool for Mazda to gauge the effectiveness of their dealers.
While the site is down, I'm going to see if we can take care of this slander bit as well. I've wanted a note on there warning people to use their real names (no forum IDs or first-name-only posts) and to refrain from vulgarity. I guess this would be a good opportunity to add that bit of information, and save me a little delete button finger cramping in the future.
__________________ Jim Linnihan...................................
Sorry rxtreme, I had intended to get back to this post, but I let it slip.
The link that hamx0r posted has some really good information and covers most of the things you could face. Some of those things I never even thought of. I bet unscrupulous dealers read that site just to get ideas.
My old neighbor was a salesman for one of the larger dealers in town that sell several different makes, import and domestic. He mainly preyed on uninformed buyer who didnít do their research and people with bad money sense who usually had bad credit. His main priority was getting the customers thinking in terms of maximum monthly payment instead of total purchase price. Thatís when he could really start to screw people without them even knowing it. He bragged about setting up a lady on a 9-year loan on a used car. She just assumed it was a five-year loan, and the payments were right where she wanted them. I bet she was pissed when she found out. He had a handful of tricks and stories of screw jobs and they almost all had to do with people only concerning themselves with what their monthly payment ended up being. One guy ended up paying more than what the sticker price was. The bottom line is, if a salesman ever asks you what you were looking to pay a month, donít walk, run away from that dealership.
He would also do things like pocket the manufactures rebate if the customer didnít know about it. Turns out that salesman get nice kickbacks for selling certain high priced extras like extended warrantees and various insurance packages. Itís kind of like how some doctors get kickbacks from prescription companies Ė there are a lot of people out there taking drugs they donít need. My neighbor was pretty adept at talking people into these, even people who didnít want them. He would pocket some pretty nice weekly bonuses from these extra things.
If you keep your posts about dealer's objective, and state facts, as in what happened...then it's not slander. If you just start going off on a dealership with no reason, then it is.
That VW dealership would not have won that case. The person had plenty of reason to say he would never go there again. Also, everyone knows how bad that made the dealership look...and I don't think another would do such a thing.
That being said, on i-club, we've had no problems like that. We'll bash vendors and dealers alike, if they deserve it.
I can safely say that the Northstar Club has provided the vendor page for over 3 years now, and has heard of no one being sued for slander. Well, other than Gordon Monsen who had several very horrible experiences with PFS Supercars. I don't think our site was the focus of the slander case either. I think I have a vague idea of what happened there, but don't take this as a court stenographers playback. . Gordon sued for damages to his wallet while dealing with Peter. Peter sued for slander in a counter-suit. Gordon won by a landslide. Not a dealer, but a vender/slander related incident.
Hopefully our vendor page will be online and in operating form by tomorrow evening. I'll let you know so we can start to add in dealers...
Depending on the number of dealers we add in there, we may make it a separate page, two columns, or collapsing categories in the future.
The two dealers listed there already are our club sponsors.
With the address below, you can add in your local dealers (or any other vendor for that matter), then go back and rate them. Try to keep the description neutral, and save your praise or thrashing for the feedback itself. Also be mindful of the note on the rating page, or you will get a e-mail from me inviting you back to follow the rules, and telling you that your unacceptable feedback has been deleted.
I ended up purchasing our '99 Milennia from DARCARS in Maryland. DARCARS is located at Cherry Hill Road at Route 29 in Silver Springs, Maryland. Their phone # is (301) 622-0020.
The treatment and no hassle price was great. I went in with a price that I was willing to pay, that price being fair to both me and the dealer (they have to make a profit also) and the price was agreed to within 5 minutes and within 1 hour we were driving away in our new car. This experience confirms that indeed all dealers are not created equal.
My experience in New York, where I live, was quite different. Here the dealer advertised the Milennia for a certain price and I went to purchase the car armed with their ad and my money. The dealer refused to sell the car for the price advertised, seeking to justify adding some $2,500.00 to the advertised price for unnecessary and unmentioned stuff, treating me as if I was CRAZY to expect them to live up to THEIR ADVERTISED PRICE.
I WILL NOT GO TO ATLANTIC AUTO MALL ON LONG ISLAND AGAIN.