JyRO

Hey guys,

I'm going to go ahead and add this thread here. Only because, from the searches I ran, the very similar or same issues are from 6 years or more past. I'm hoping the resolution to this runs down the same paths. But if not, then this will be valuable information ongoing.

I bought a 2006 Shinka for my son, maybe about a year ago. We've been working out various issues. The car was in quite decent shape from the previous owner, yet he had let it sit for probably a couple years as he got married and his Warden made him get a girlie SUV.

I'm a previous FD3S owner, and I gotta say, this 2006 Shinka has really grown on me. I like the RX8 way more than I thought I would. It is a helluva good looking car. In a lot of ways, I think it looks better than the FD. Not the point of this thread so I'm moving on to the issue.

Yesterday my son drove home from work, car working fine, parked in the driveway. He went down later to drive the car and it did everything the same, except the starter would not turn. All the cluster & radio lights come on as normal. I bought 2 Infiniti G35s for my older 2 sons. One has done this exact same thing. And it was simply a plastic button/pad on the clutch pedal cracked and fell off (just got old and brittle) and that button/pad no longer would touch the clutch start switch ... so the starter wouldn't turn.

I wish it were that simple with the RX8. He had to go so he drove another car to what he had to do and when he got back it was dark, so we didn't mess with the car. After searching and reading the posts today, it seems more likely that his 120 amp fuse has blown.

So that's where we are. We both had to go to work today, and we will be checking it out when we get home. I'm going to check the floor, to see if there might be a similar button/pad that might have fallen off. But that seems less likely on this car, because I have never found such a cause in the searches I ran. It seems much more likely the 120 amp fuse blew. Heck, there may not even be a pad ... Mazda may have just extended a shape off the clutch pedal structure in which depresses a sensor, which would be more reliable long term.

He and I will check the car tonight and follow back up in here later.

I read where one side of the fuse, as I understand, the nut the back side of the fuse box tends to fall out of place and be a royal PITA to remedy that. Is there a way around that issue?

It will be good for continued knowledge on these cars that they still seem to have the same problems as they have had over the past 10+ years.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Is the immobilizer light flashing rapidly when you try to start it? Or does it stay lit (not flashing) the when the car is off?

JyRO

When the key is ON, the immobilizer light remains off. At the same time, when the key is ON, the DSC OFF blinks about once per second.

This car uses the credit card looking thing I don't remember what it is called, to lock / unlock the door (proximity key maybe). But when unlocking the door, then opening the door, the car-with-a-key-inside light (I think that's the immobilizer) blinks a quick blink about once very 2 to 2.5 seconds or so. That stops when the "key" is turned to ON.

Turning the key off, the immobilizer starts blinking again and continues even after getting out and closing the door and pushing the button on the door handle.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

That all sounds normal except DCS blinking. Is that immediate or after letting the car sit in ON for a bit?

Any OBD codes? Do you hear any noises or clicking when trying to start?

JyRO

I don't think it sat there long before I noticed the DCS light blinking. I'll check again later this evening. I checked the OBD codes, there were none. When the "key" is turned to ON, the normal click sounds that happen out under the hood do happen. Not the relay clicking sounds that are heard from a dead / near-dead battery.

The battery was replaced this February by a battery built in January. There's been no issues with the car since replacing the battery until now. I contacted the original owner, he thinks it is the original starter.

I put a multimeter across the starter's big terminations. I get 12V potential across those terminals at all times. Key off / Key on / Key start, all = 12V. I thought that when the Key was turned off it would drop the voltage, but it doesn't. So I don't know if there's something wrong, or if it is supposed to do that. I can pull off the solenoid signal connector and then the 12V potential across the starter terminals is gone (0V). But that's the only time it sees 0V.

Either the solenoid on the starter is NOT being triggered, or the solenoid is dead. I'm no spring chicken, but electrons and I just don't see eye-to-eye. They never do what I expect them to. I'd say the car was built in 2006 ('07 model). That makes that starter in the realm of 17 or 18 years old. In any event, it wouldn't hurt to go ahead and slap a new starter on it. I hope it's a denso. I've got a 2000 Dodge Ram 2500 with a Cummins. Seems like it's original Denso starter lasted 19 years. It conked out once, I rebuilt the solenoid. When it got slow and weak and finally wouldn't turn the motor over (in 2018 or 2019), I replaced it with the exact same part number Denso starter. It was expensive. But, the sumbich lasted 19 years, turning over a Cummins engine. It's one tough son of a gun starter. So if the starter on the RX is a Denso, I'll go back with the same part number Denso (if I can find it).

This starter is not going to get done today or tomorrow. So I'm still very appreciative to hear any other suggestions. And appreciate what I've heard so far. Thanks!

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Starters do die, it's a thing. The recommended upgrade is the 2kW starter from 09+ cars, and they're not particularly expensive from Mazda or a rebuilder. Model number starts with N3R3. 130-150 a few years ago.

Not sure what to make of the constant 12V there, it's surprising to have a live wire low to the ground at all times, but I've never thought to measure it on a healthy car.

JyRO

Is this the one to which you refer? N3R3, 2k watt

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Yep that's it.

JyRO

Last night, we pushed the car around in the driveway, back up a slope and I got it to bump start and crank coasting back down the slope. Then my son drove it around for about 20 minutes. It had zero issues once the engine fired.

This makes me believe that it is isolated as just a starter issue. Would you agree?

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

I've had to replace batteries beaucoup times on my '04, but never a starter.

I put a new one on it a couple of years ago to go with my new engine, that's it.
It was still working.

JyRO

I can understand what you say, but...

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, it was just an observation, I wasn't trying to help troubleshoot.

I was just saying in my experience, starters have been pretty reliable while batteries have been my issue.

It could be someone replaced the OEM when people were doing it trying to compensate for weak compression.

JyRO

Got it!

JyRO

Loki (or anyone),

I planning on just going ahead and buying a starter tomorrow (4/24). But would welcome your input to the above before then. THANKS!

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

Is the starter working now?

Checked for loose or corroded ground wires?

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Yes sounds like the starter or the starter relay.

JyRO

After my son took it for the drive, when he parked in the driveway I had him try to crank it after shutting it off ... and it was the same thing. Everything works but the starter just wouldn't activate. I was under the car checking things out and it seemed all the wiring was in quite good shape.

The car has only been in Florida and Georgia its whole existence.

I'm going to go ahead and buy the starter now. Even if it turns out it's not the starter, for $130 it wouldn't hurt to put a new starter on it after 19 years. His car is a 2006. I keep thinking it's a 2007. I have bought two 2005 G35 6-speed coupes, a 2007 G35 6-speed coupe, and now this 6-speed RX-8 and I keep forgetting it's tucked right in between the years of the G35s. A 2006 Shinka. Quite a nice car.

JyRO

I'm assuming by "starter relay" you mean the solenoid relay that's part of the starter? I don't believe there's another relay for the starter in the fusebox, but let me know if I'm wrong.

JyRO

FEEDBACK!

The new starter is in. And now, it cranks!

But the starter is NOT why it cranks. We slapped in the new starter, turned the key, and nothing. Again, I asked my son to look on the floorboard for odd looking pieces of plastic. He had to look hard because he has vacuumed the floors a couple times as of late. But he pulled out this smallish green piece of plastic he found under the floor mat. And I said, "DAYIM, I bet that's the clutch pedal button (or whatever it's called)." I'm pretty sure I asked him to look for such a thing when this all started. And I'm pretty sure he gave it a courtesy look around. But this time he made a real effort, and found this green piece.

My oldest son, on his G35 he had the EXACT same problem. A button on the pedal cracked and fell off. It was the button used to push the sensor at the bottom of the clutch stroke to signal the ECU that the clutch is pushed and therefore the ECU triggers the starter to turn. So I had him look under there and find what he thinks would be the sensor that the clutch pedal would touch. Sure enough, he found it and found another part of the green broken piece. I had him hold the sensor with his finger as if the clutch were pushing it, and I turned the "key." Viola! The car fired right up.

Yes, I was somewhat miffed. However, that was a 19 year old starter on there, that won't last forever. At least now, he's not likely to get stranded due to a bad starter. In the end, we had some foam ear plugs from this weekend when we were firing our hand-cannons. I had him roll one down until it fit the hole on the clutch pedal, and push it through the hole about halfway, in the direction that would have the outer end of the ear plug pushing the sensor. This is INTENDED to be temporary. He got back up and in the seat and tried it and the ear plug works like a friggin charm.

That said, maybe this will be a valuable post. LOOK FOR BROKEN CLUTCH PEDAL BUTTON pieces, if your car has this exact same failure.

That said, if anyone wants his original, perfectly working starter, you can have it for free, just pay for the shipping!


JyRO