Chrishoky

iTrader: (9)

Hey Guys (and Gals),

Im looking for some tire buying advice. Im running 18x9.5 +45 Enkei RPF1's, Im looking at the following tire choices in 265/35/18. Anyone have experience with the 3 below tires? The car is used as a DD, no track time for now.

Sumitomo HTR ZIII - $134/tire
Continental DW - $182/tire
Bridgestone Pole Position - $188/tire
Michelin Pilot Super Sport - $225/tire

I'm attracted to the Super Sports because they offer a 30K mile tread wear warranty and are rated the best on tirerack. However, I have heard good things about the other three and are a better budget tire especially for DD. I do have a dedicated winter setup so these would only see 6 months a year of use.

NotAPreppie

It's not on your list but I've been very happy with the Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Position tires that I put on my Infiniti... So much that I moved them over to my '8.

sybreeder

I'm not familiar with tyres that you mentioned...I personally use Bridgestone Re002 as my summer tyres and i think that those are great for everyday drive and track use - very little use of rubber

Chrishoky

iTrader: (9)

I actually added these to my list as a couple other people have suggested it over the DW's. How many miles have you gotten out of yours?

Im hoping to get 30K miles out of this set, which is why Im leaning towards the super sports at the moment. They have a 30K mile tread warranty where all the others have none.

NotAPreppie

I ran them on my Infiniti from March until November of last year before putting snow tires on. I decided to mount them to my '8 this year since I plan on driving the '8 more.

I probably have 8-10k miles on them and they have lots of tread left.

rotarydude07

I personally use the Bridgestone RE-11A as track tire set and Bridgestone S-04 Pole Position for DD use. Since here in SoCal never rains... the S-04 is year round for me, I think I might have only 14k on those. Planning to get RE760 Sport for more life once these S04 wears out

acroy

Michelin Pilot Super Sport are the tires to beat; they are the best. Spendy but you get what you pay for. They somehow magically last longer than the cheaper tires too - so the total cost of ownership is the same (or less) due to lasting longer!

Chrishoky

iTrader: (9)

This is pretty much where my head is at. Better performance, plus better wear. Seems like a win win. Just was looking for personal experiences.

Chibana

I love my Super Sports.

NotAPreppie

I always see a certain subset of the population raving about the MPSS but those are rarely the same people that do any kind of formal performance driving with their cars.

To be sure they are good tires but it's really hard to quantify if they are better (and by how much) than tires that cost less. I suppose when you are looking at tires on this list, it's really hard to go wrong.

Edit: to clarify
I would be willing to bet that the difference in performance between any of the tires being considered is far less than the inconsistency in the driver's skill. So, pick whichever one you like and know that it's the right one.

Chibana

I don't know about that--Car & Driver have singled out the PSS as an excellent tire on the track, and I sure liked the way mine handled on the track (not that I have a lot of track experience in my RX-8). One of the instructors commented on how sticky they were on my car at GingerMan last year.

Hi Flying 8

iTrader: (2)

I am looking into the Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 that are new offerings. Firestone and Bridgestone are co-owned and I have had good luck with the Firestone Winterforce snow tires. I had used Blizzaks previously and they had a little better traction in severe conditions, but they wore terribly and the Winterforce lasted much longer. I've been impressed with the value and performance of Firestone so far.

NotAPreppie

And Car and Driver has never done anything suspect.

The fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority people that actually race their cars (with times providing the distinction between 1st and 1st of the losers) on DOT-approved street tires never use the PSS. For autocross it's almost exclusively the RE-71R or Rival S. I don't know about road course racing and it's really immaterial because that in no way resembles real-world driving.

Again, when you're talking about the top of the current range of summer tires, the difference between the tires will be smaller than the second-to-second difference in driver skill.

Chrishoky

iTrader: (9)

In my particular case this is not meant to be a Autox or track tire, just a DD for now. Maybe in a year or two when I have some more time/money Ill get into autox but its not in the cards right now. My basic thought process is still this:

Will the PSS be better and last longer than the rest of the pack, hence making the higher price more worthwhile? For example, if the Sumitomo's last 15K miles while the PSS last 30K miles, then the higher price for the PSS is worth it, regardless of performance difference. If that's not the case, then the cheaper tire probably makes more sense in my case. Some random guy on the RX8 facebook page said his Sumitomo's lasted him 40K miles, but that seems to be out of the ordinary - most reviews mention 15K-20K.

So in short, still don't know what to do... still pondering options.

NotAPreppie

Honestly, there's no way to know until you try. There's no reliable data easily available to the public on a tire's actual longevity (I wouldn't trust the manufacturer's treadwear rating) and even if there were, it's subject to many variables.

pcs

iTrader: (2)

My PSS lasted a long time, or seemingly a long time, and that was with mixed track and street use.

To NotAPreppie's comments - the PSS are a great compromise tire for track and for street (or not a compromise tire for the track in the wet). Much like any other thing that is a compromise, it's not going to be the top performer in either category, but rather give you the ability to go either way on the same setup.

The PSS are not as fast in the dry as the Dunlop ZIIs, RE71Rs, or the V710s (just throwing it in there, that's not nearly a fair comparison) that I have run on various tracks. I would venture to guess that they're not nearly as fast as the RS3s either. However, they are very communicable, and provide excellent grip up to the limits.

If you're in a race situation, the PSS are not going to be the tire of choice unless it's wet. If you're not in a race situation, then... really it doesn't matter and you should just be going out to have fun and work on car control - in which case, you could be on any of the OP's tires and still learn and figure things out.

My .02 is to go with the Sumitomo HTR ZIII if you're on a budget, PSS is you want more out of your tires and you want to hit an occasional track day without swapping wheels and tires.

New Yorker

What more do you need to know? I doubt anyone here has tested as thoroughly - head-to-head, no less - as Tire Rack has.

IamFodi

iTrader: (1)

Hey, Chrishoky! Dunno if you remember me, but I'm pretty sure we've met at Philly-area meets. Red R3 here.

Simple answer: The Pilot Super Sport isn’t just the best tire in that group; it might be the best tire, period.

I'm on my third set of PSS (one on my old E36 M3, two on my current R3). I really wish there were a better street tire, but as far as I can tell there just isn't one. It’s not perfect by any means; I’d prefer a stiffer sidewall and sharper steering response. The problem is, there’s just nothing that offers those things without big downsides (not to mention that it's still stiffer and sharper than most other tires). The PSS grips hard dry and wet, lasts longer than any tire in its category, has reasonable levels of NVH, is well made, weighs less than almost anything else you can buy, and keeps working all the way down to the wear bars. It’s very, VERY hard to imagine a better all-around package.

The RE-71R has a better sidewall, as well as better dry grip when hot. It’s the only other tire that would tempt me if it were available in R3 size. But it has worse cold grip, worse wet grip, worse NVH, and shorter tread life, and it's heavier. Pretty serious combo of shortcomings for a street tire. It’ll be the same story or worse for any other tire in the RE-71's category.

AFAIK, the ExtremeContact DW has maybe very slightly better wet grip. Everything else is the same or worse.

Also AFAIK, the S-04 is the same or slightly worse in every category. Excellent tire, just not better than the PSS.

Pretty much any tire will be heavier than the PSS – and remember, tire mass is the most consequential mass in your whole car. Also, almost no tire you’ll find will work as well as the PSS at low tread depths. So, if you compare usable tread life, the PSS even beats tires that take longer to get to the wear bars. I.e., the PSS will give you 30k usable miles, whereas most other tires start to suck at 20k.

So yeah, if there's one thing you care about in a tire (e.g. dry grip) and nothing else matters, there may be a few better alternatives to the PSS. But if you need a street tire, then you need an all-rounder, and there's no better all-rounder than the PSS.

...Except maybe the Pilot Sport A/S 3. Maybe. Better wet grip, better cold grip, better NVH; worse precision, worse dry grip (though still huge); longer life when driven normally, shorter life when powerslid everywhere. I didn’t go that route because I think the PSS is a better match for the R3's personality, but the A/S 3 might be worthwhile for an RX-8 that has more compliant suspension.

As for the cheaper tires: as I recently said in another thread, I really think the best bang-for-the-buck is... whatever the best tire is. You have to go FAR down the food chain to save any real money, and at that point you're making big compromises (wet grip, NVH, quality, or whatever) that never seem worth it in the end. If you own your tires for 2 years (pessimistic), then the price difference between the best and worst tires on your list ($360) comes out to roughly $15 a month. Would you pay $15 a month for your car to steer, grip, stop, ride, and feel better in all conditions? That's a damn sight less than the difference in fuel costs between an RX-8 and the next-most fun car, so... I'd say you've pretty much already answered "yes" to that question, if you know what I mean.

IamFodi

iTrader: (1)

By the way, why such wide tires for a DD? Seems counterproductive to me.

Either way, with a tire that wide on a car this light, the wet performance of the tire is going to be even more important. Something to keep in mind IMO.

Chrishoky

iTrader: (9)

Thanks for the lengthy feedback Fodi, of course I remember you. I hope we can all get together again soon.

What wheel width would you suggest on a 9.5 in wheel? Its my understanding that a 245 is on the low end and they can accept anything to 285. I thought 265 was a good compromise, and that's what came with the tires when I bought them.

IamFodi

iTrader: (1)

If you're definitely sticking with that 9.5" wheel, I'd recommend 255/40/18 just because it's the best match for the stock OD. The contact patch will be narrower and longer than what you have now, so you'll have better hydroplaning resistance and better braking. Again, just make sure you prioritize wet grip when you select a tire. If you can tolerate slightly less-sharp handling, the A/S 3 would be a great call. Otherwise, it's gotta be the PSS.

If you're open to switching wheels, that's a different story. I'd be inclined to recommend going back to stock width (8" rim, 225 tire), or as close to it as possible. With a good tire, you'd still have more dry grip than you'd know what to do with -- that's where I'm at with my 225/40/19 PSSs. You'd also save several pounds per corner and have even better hydroplaning resistance.

lowen12

I have the Conti DW's and so far I'm very pleased with them. They have a bit over 10k miles on them. Grip on dry roads is really good and straight line traction is much better. Wet braking seems to be good as well. These tires have relatively soft sidewalls but they comfortable over irregular surfaces.

Chrishoky

iTrader: (9)

I actually went with the Kumho Ecsta LE Sport in 255/40/18 based on a few recommendations. They were on sale on tire rack for $80/tire! Based on the reviews they are a middle of the pack summer tire, but for that price I thought it was a good deal. Thanks to everyone for their input!

LayinDoors

Has anyone ran the new Nitto 555 G2 yet?