waterproofone

Chalk up another engine replacement. 2005 Auto, GT RX8. 120,700 miles. Engine compression tests show 5.3, 5.0, 5.3 on each rotor. I don't even have any 6's. Car is babied, never had low oil, runs like a champ. Never flooded and no one drives the car but me. Was getting hard to start up but once running runs great. Started using a LOT of gas and hard starting.

Waiting on replacement engine. This will be my first rotary engine I am having to replace out of the other 4 rx7's I've owned.

Trisha's rx8

Holly crap...thats exactly what mine is doing. It just started this week. Oh lord I was hoping it was something simple but from the sounds of it its not. You described it perfect, I having a huge problem trying to describe what the sound was. So is there a recall or is there not?

JKARR

Dealership just told me catalytic converter was bad. $1,600. No symptoms except check engine light. Could it be a sensor? 52,000 miles 2004. Help!

cornholio135

iTrader: (2)

I believe that they are warrantied till 80k miles??? if not tell them no thank you and get a midpipe...

waterproofone

They have an 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty. My problem is I have complained about the engine before, while I was still under warranty.

My car is well taken care of and this is how it ends up? An engine that needs replacement?
New coils, battery and plugs always makes the problem less noticeable but comes back soon. My car started using so much gas ,,,,,,I filled up, drove 19 miles to the dealer and I had used 1/4 a tank...

It still runs great....just down on "passing power", using gas and hard to start.

Engine on the way...CATs should have 80,000 warranty. Some states or auto makers are til 100,000 miles.

wise813

The engine in my wife's 2004 RX8 gave out one day last year in busy traffic. It had 38,000 miles on it, had all scheduled maintenance performed...the last being a week before the failure. Mazda said it would be $7,500 to replace the engine and that the warranty had expired two weeks earlier. We replaced the rotary engine with a Supra twin turbo. Lots of modifications, wiring and computer issues to deal with in the swap, but this car is now fast! A sleeper, to say the least!

Mazda had no sympathy, nor did they offer any type of assistance in replacing the rotary...no customer satisfaction concerns at all.

waterproofone

That sucks...at least u have it running good now. They obviously messed something up when they redisgned it. If only Mr. Wakel were still alive he'd bitch-slap
the new Mazda rotary engineer.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

If u believe their copy and pasted scheduled maintenance and their utter.bs on.engine.oil.grade.. then you deserved the kaboom.

And u are just telling us one side of the story only, not even complete, have u replace coils? I know 2004 came with.complete crap, so did original plugs, ecu.update? Any recall.done?

ANd u do know thay **** does happen and have u thought that u might be one of them

Wife was driving??? I sorta know why its dead by now!

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

U do know that Dr. Wankel never got the.engine right, right?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Good luck NYC. I don't even know where to start with the responses in this thread since it was resurrected.


Multiple different first posts with unclear and undetailed issues apparently feeding on the "I'm screwed!" frenzy and isn't being helped by the other people responding with incorrect or misleading information.

waterproofone

NYC, you come across sounding like quite a dick when you respond....try to calm down.. No one needs the attitude. Mazda's maintenance schedule is not that bad. Having had 4 other rotary engines, the MOST I ever did was change the oil and drive the hell out of them. Got 200,000 miles out of each of them . The only thing I do not agree with Is the 20 weight oil. High revving engines like this need 40 or 50 weigh without question.

Mr. Wankel did get the engine right. He developed many of them through his life. He died when the anniversary edition came out which was the best rotary the ever made. Never had any problems till now which is a new design fault from Mazda. This many issues is not the result of "**** happens".

The problem started when Mazda switched to electronically controlled metering oil pumps and then made people switch to thinner oils. The older cars had great ignition systems, basic radiators and none of all this electronic crap. Sensors on top of more sensors = problems on top of other problems.


There used to be a theft ring of RX-7's back in the 80's and 90's in Florida where I lived. I knew tons of people with them at the time, all with well over 100,000 miles and never had any issues like this. Mazda is aware of their problem and that is why they have put rotaries on the back burner because it's costing them money. Between manufacturing costs and the EPA, they almost had no choice but to kill the project.

What is offensive is people are just trying to get advice here and they have to encounter such childish attitudes from "holier than thows".

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

waterproofone,

You are falling victim to the same thing that plagues most RX-7 owners. Too much simply does not apply to the RX-8. You can't just assume that the same issues with the RX-7 are the same issues with the RX-8, and that the same preventative maintenance will produce the same good results.

There are too many failure points for the RX-8 that have no comparison to the RX-7s. All 3 generations of RX-7 had their design faults, just like the RX-8. However it isn't the SAME faults. They changed. The RX-8 made improvements over the RX-7 engines, however they introduced new problems in the process.

Having a more complicated car will indeed increase overall failure rate of something. However simply having electronic sensors doesn't automatically make the car bad. They are necessary in today's world of emissions regulation and people seeking to get every bit of power out of their car that they can. This isn't the 80s and 90s and the generally loose emissions regulations compared to today. This isn't the 80s and 90s and sub $1 gas.

Electronic sensors and electronic oil metering ISN'T the problem. In fact, our oil metering pump is one of the few things that keeps our engines alive! Remove the oil metering pump and your engine will fail much much sooner, EVEN WITH PREMIXING! Premixing will only hold it off a bit, but still kill the engine faster. Why? The OMP delivers cooling oil to the side seals that premix can't do sufficiently.



This isn't an RX-7 with peripheral ports and much lower NA power (which means much lower heat generation). You can't assume that the Renesis is an RX-7 engine. Far too many changes that make it a different set of problems that need to be addressed.

waterproofone

The mis-calibration of the metering oil pump is in fact one of the very reasons many engines were damaged.... Too little oil being injected. Yes the metering oil pump saves the car, provided it is "programmed correctly"..which it was not. This is why Mazda had what?? 3 or 4 updates since the RX8's release... I know what era we are in thanks. I know each car out there has its share of problems...

For the first generation of RX7's it was suspension, steering and alternator problems.
2nd gen problems were more electrical and a faulty fuel pulsation damper which would catch the car on fire if not replaced in time.

I DO NOT consider BAD ENGINES as just another example of a little problem. It is not acceptable that the rx8 has this many failure points either way.

I understand the point you are trying to make and all I am going to say is that when you have a mechanical arm controlling something like throttle, or in our case the metering oil pump, it is easy to pop the hood to see if it's still connected. If it is, it is working (assuming it hasn't failed). If the arm is disconnected, then buy a new one. A bad program written for the PCM costs MAZDA and its owners a lot of grief and money. I have a choice of whether to keep my car or get rid of it, this I know...and still up in the air about it.

In the past, they were much easier to take care of and lasted much longer. Our gas now has ethanol in it..Our oil has 50% or more of zinc taken out that helped to protect against metal to metal contact. It was thought that the zinc polluted our CAT,,but yet I still have to replace my CAT two week ago and now need an engine. It's a cool car and the engine feels great, I'm not slamming the car. I'm simply making a point about the failure points are all over the map on this car. I have in excess of 6 thousand dollars I have spent on maintenance and yet I still had to get a new engine and CAT.

I consider myself to be quite knowledgeable about the cars, I have done extensive research on this car, its inventor and how it works. That is why I bought my RX8, I thought ... THOUGHT it would be as reliable as the RX7 and as easy to care for. Anyone considering buying an RX8 should know they are fun as hell to drive but will keep you in the poor house for sure.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

wrong. that means you STILL don't know what exactly went wrong with the MSP. try harder.

I never had 1st gen so I don't know too much, but I did my homework cuz I Was about to get one just about 3 months ago. the biggest problem is it's pissy poor Alternator.

electrial are mostly ok except a few spot here and there, the most noticable is the switch from mechanical to stepping motor MOP. when the MOP fails, 90% of the time it's the seal that goes bad, oil gets into the motor and short the circuit. For some reason the ECU onboard does not have any kind of protection against that, so when that goes, 100% chance it will take the ECU with it.

and the FP problem, it only applies to S4, they fixed it in S5(mostly), put it this way, Denso fixed the problem cuz they are the manufacture of the PD unit. and it's NOT UNCOMMON of PD leak around that time (for japanese cars), cuz Denso is the biggest OEM in Japan, reason why S4 of that time caught fire because the PD sits almost right on top of the Exhaust. when it leaks, it is very likely that it will get to the Exhaust manifold = burst up in flames.

There are many engines/cars out there drive and drive and drive drive for 200K+ miles without problems.

the program itself is not the main issue. try again.

Welcome to 2012. even back in 2003, the MSP made 232 hp (real HP) while the LAST NA RX-7 made what? 160 hp stock? hmm ? while 85% of the engine remains the same ?

have you ever thought that, it's much easier to take care of and lasted much longer cuz the rules back then were not as strict as it is today?

and you do realized that even PISTON engine does not last as long as they used to be compare to say, 20 years ago? 20 years ago a Civic can go 400K without a rebuild. Now? try and see if a K20A can go 300K without issues.

and again, the Rotary engine is about 85% the same as it used to be, there are just so many legacy stuff that's dragging it.

screw that CAT, it's an excuses from manufactures so engines/cars dies faster so they can milk more money.

Have you replaced your coils at all? oh I mean as far as I know it's not in the schedule maintenance. if you never did, hmm, you deserved it ?

damn, sucks to be you then.

Just because one eats healthy, sleeps well, never smokes nor drink ----- it does NOT mean this person is immune from Cancer. You sound like you are at least 50+, I hope you get that idea.

There are people with 200K+ miles already, some reach 250k+.

Again, sucks to be you that you got an bad apple, now stop crying.

waterproofone

NYC, you don't know how to talk to people. Get the chip off your shoulder. I am not over 50 thanks. I am not even over 40. I am old enough to treat people with respect and not talk down to them and not be DICK to them like you are. If you do not agree with my comments or concerns, then either be nice or don't respond. I am here not to argue, but to give as well as receive advice. I am not even going to try to guess your age, but I am going to guess that your coworkers call you Richard and you have few friends.

The calibration of the oil metering pump is in fact one reason the engines were dying. They did not calibrate the pumps to inject enough oil into the stream. This is verified by any reputable mechanic and MAZDA themselves. If it was not a fault, why in the hell did Mazda keep updating the calibration to inject more oil each time? It's running at high temperatures and not injecting enough oil. The first cooling fan does not kick on until 217 if I am not mistaken. I had the MM calibration on my car since 2008 so my car ran cooler but you see it did not help. I redlined it enough to decarb the engine too. I've done the BG44 stuff too, performance wires and coils,, blah blah.. If you have not had every edition of the rotary engine, don't speak about them. I have had and driven all of them. It is in fact a combination of the engine problems along with poor program updates for the PCM. I do in fact understand your point about the rules these days being much harsher.. THEY ARE,,this is real. It does not discount the fact that they had issues. I don't care who made what parts and which manufacturer is responsible for each item in the car. My point is that regardless, these engines are not as reliable as they once were. A combination of poor quality gas, oil, parts and programming. You are right though, years ago it was easier to keep a car on the road. Today, even with strict guidelines, if an Accord or even a GMC can make it until 200,000 plus miles without problems... Then this rotary should be able to keep up as well.. Wouldn't you agree? I've owned American cars and foreign both, I sold my Chevy Silverado z71 to get this car and for an American car, the Chevy gave me less heartache. I only purchased another Mazda to replace the Chevy because I thought it would give me less problems and it's sad to say that it didn't. ...and trust me, the Chevy never left me stranded but had a lot of problems but none like my Mazda.

I have replaced everything on the car, three times thanks. The coils, plugs and wires, engine air filters, etc etc etc..... I have not had any misfires or dash lights ever. I do regular maintenance myself to ensure smooth running. I guess that is why my engine runs so smoothly with a compression avg of 5.4 on both rotors.... I do all the maintenance myself and have done so since I was 18 years old. I think I know a little about them and what they need. I have used the protek and other premixes, I use the best oil and filters. I run the car hard when it needs it.

You speak to us like we're hicks and you are a know-it-all. Most GUYS do their routine maintenance regularly as guys love cars.

I understand the points being discussed. My only point is that in fact, the engine should not be dying as early as it is. It has three moving parts....

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

You haven't even mentioned any of the other reasons for failure, which are far more common.

The problem is that your posts come across as you just raving against the world for advancing in technology, while at the same time complaining that 1 engine design on it's 7th(?) iteration after 45ish company 'man years' of development isn't up to par with another engine design that has untold thousands of iterations and several thousand company 'man-years' of development.

Yes, the Renesis isn't up to par with piston engines in reliability. We kinda know this already. My new owners thread even details out everything scary that can go wrong in an attempt to scare people away from this car that don't have the dedication and passion required to accept it's faults.

The problem we have with what you are saying is that it's misleading and full of inaccuracies. The same inaccuracies and misconceptions that we see every time an rx-7 owner comes here with blinders on and insists on being stuck in the past. There is a whole lot more to the story, both good and bad, that you are missing.

Yes, the omp volume was insufficient due to emissions marks they were trying to hit and consumers they were trying to placate. Simple seal wear isn't even the most common failure method though.

And plenty of it's issues are simply because it's 50% more power than the last NA rotary, without enough cooling to handle that amount of heat. Not much to do with electronics there...

It's just another experimental iteration. Anyone that expects engine perfection shouldn't shop for something that is still an experiment.

Sugarfree135

iTrader: (1)

Very well said!!^^^^
I bought my car for two main reasons after reading all of the horror stories. 1-I have a company vehicle at my disposal in case it breaks down. 2-It has a 8yr 100,000 mile warranty lol
It's like RIWWP said ya know. The piston engine has been tweaked for decades upon decades while the renesis has been around for like 9 years? It's apparent that although it only has 3 moving parts that it isn't as reliable simply because of heat.
What is it that they try and tell all potential rx-7 owners anyway? Get an aftermarket temp gauge! Because heat kills these engines, and the renny puts out a lot of heat lol

muncheyboy

sorry to hear about your problems, i also had 2 rx-7s. i like to read ( riwwp ) posts. he is to the point & no attitude or chip on his sholder. where some people think thay are better than anyone else & put them down. mabey it helps them with low selfesteem ?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

jeeeze, why would I wanna respect you when you were so full of it ?

Like I said, that's NOT the main issue with RX-8. TRY HARDER

MM is gone, for a reason.

That's like oh I've never used a Mac so don't say it sucks? When I actually hack into couple of them?

I know my FC well enough that I can take it all out (strip it) and put it back together without looking at the FSM. so yeah I'm fairly sure I know more than you on the FC (and what kind of problems it has), so yea, I know FCs better than you.

and you don't do BG44/Decarb for no reason. *sigh*

Now I can see why is your engine is soooo "short-lived"

I guess people with 200K+ miles on their Rx-8 got some sort of magic dustie on their ride?

See responds above?

There is a reason why Chevy almost outta business. sure it has to do with bad financial decision than other stuff. but they were imfamous for their GARBAGE products.

then you still don't believe in what I said in my last post, u can get cancer even if u live and eats well?

That means you dont even know.how this engine really works. You are pathetically sad


I'm not a know it all, ppl here knows this is the way I talk to ppl. sorry if it hurts your little heart. but too bad. I don't give a damn.

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

Rx8 omp verification procedure:

Tools required: flashlight

Shine light on omp lines verify constant stream of oil in all 4 lines.

Secondary procedure: monitor mode 22 omp flow rate pid.

Final procedure: omp failure puts car in limp mode. Rob a bank and replace $1500 pump.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

u know how hard that is? it requires a PHd in mechanical engineering ...

ok, I admit, it's somewhat harder than "just pop the hood and LOOK at the linkage"


He had a hard time going thru step A, you expect him to be able to do Step B ?

This is the only problem, i always wonder why omp.cost so much, its also made.by denso, probably because.the volume is low, which means it cost more

.But u can always find a used working one far cheaper, i got 2 fc omp for 50 bucks each, fully working and it looks brand new

A used omp for the 8 can be found for around 50 to 200, depends on where u look

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

Yup yup... but that would likely prove too hard too... and he'd likely (unnecessarily) pull the engine to get to it.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

gauges is not a cure for stupidity.

when someone is nothing but full of **** ? whine about how the car sux when he knows nothing about it?