Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Thought I would share my clutch + flywheel swap experience and the issue I encountered.
Hopefully this will help others in the future.

I ordered the Exedy Stage 1 clutch kit (10803AHD) and the BHR/Spec flywheel with the ACT counterweight from Ray (Charles R Hill).
Helping me was Vyndictive, a friend, and my father.
Removing the transmission was pretty straight forward if you just follow the shop manual's break-down which is numbered in the order of removal:

I had the car up on jack stands roughly 20" for enough clearance to slide the tranny out on a trans jack.
The biggest pain to remove/install surprisingly was the slave cylinder and the bracket!
This is where a ratcheting wrench would have helped, but I didn't have one.
There are some cables that are tied-off up top, so remember to release those before lowering the transmission.
And I had to watch the front O2 sensor's wire because it was pretty close to snagging on the bell-housing.
There is a harness for the FO2S, but it was up high and I couldn't reach it to disconnect.

I bought a 54mm nut wrench for the flywheel's locknut and a jig to keep the flywheel from spinning:

I got this at Mazdatrix and it helped out a ton:
http://mazdatrix.com/8-trans.htm

Installing everything is pretty straight forward too (especially since you just got done removing it).
Just remember to clean the surfaces that makes contact with the clutch disc to avoid slipping (flywheel and pressure plate).
And be sure not to over grease because you don't want that to fling onto the surfaces and create slippage.
Other than that, simply follow the shop manual and take your time to make sure nothing gets snagged or overlooked.

Now for the part I didn't read about and what caused me "issues" at the beginning.
While the car was still up on jack stands I decided to check the clutch engagement.
I pushed in the clutch pedal, started the car, and put it into gear... and the wheels started turning (mind you the pedal is all the way down).
This tells me that the disc isn't disengaging from the flywheel.
So of course the first thing running through our minds was, "Great... we need to disassemble everything again!"
We didn't want to rush into anything so we brainstormed what could have caused this.

My friend mentioned he bought a clutch kit for his Trans-Am and it did the same thing.
He ended up finding out that the company sent the wrong pressure plate.
So before getting carried away with removing/adjusting anything I decided to call Ray (Charles R Hill) and verify I was sent the correct kit and see what his first "plan of attack" would be.
We verified I had the correct kit and he mentioned that the upgraded clutch would require making an adjustment on the clutch pedal.
Ray was kind enough to explain the whole process and knew the exact tools/size required to make the adjustment.
He was also generous enough to share his knowledge on clutch operations and adjustment pros/cons.
He really did live up to his "BHR customer service" bit we always hear him mention.

After I got off the phone with Ray we made the adjustments as he suggested.
I noticed the tires spinning slower with every adjustment so we kept going until the tires didn't move anymore.
I'm glad I keep Ray's number saved in my phone... he saved me a TON of work.

So my word of advise when upgrading a clutch, keep the car off the ground and verify the wheels don't spin with the clutch pedal all the way down.
Hope this helps anyone else who decides to tackle this.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

CRH +1

How long did it took u for the whole install ?

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

We had the transmission down, the clutch and flywheel removed in about 2.5 hours taking our time.
Then about the same time to reinstall everything.

I'm sure we could cut the time down a lot more know that we have practice and know what tools are going to be required to get the job done easier.

Shnifty

This is something I want to try this summer. Thanks for sharing!

Vyndictive

iTrader: (28)

Also... a transmission jack on casters made this job much easier.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Jon, the "AHD" clutch is actually the MazdaSpeed clutch from Exedy and you got the BHR release bearing with the kit, too. The MazdaSpeed is one small step "above" the Stage 1 clutch.

Thx, also, for the kind words and for the discussion with me about your clutch pedal adjustment.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Even the "AHD" clutch isn't bad for a daily driver.
Once I got the two adjustments on the pedal tweaked in, its been running great.
I have no problem recommending this to someone who is looking for a good daily driver clutch kit.

Just giving credit where its due
And I forgot to measure the height difference between the clutch and brake pedal like you ask me to do.
I'll try to remember that in the morning and let you know.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

I am not so concerned with how much higher your clutch pedal may now be in comparison to your brake pedal, I am just curious as to whether or not it is or is not.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

If there is a height difference, it would be small since I haven't noticed it while driving.

teknics

makes sense, uprated pressure plate requires more pressure from the slave to be moved fully/disengaged, lengthing the amount of rod going into the master cylinder allows a longer stroke which allows the fluid to be compressed extra, causing more pressure and the ability to move the pressure plate.

And to throw it in, the tools need are a 12mm and 10mm open ended wrench. 12mm lock nut, 10mm head area on the master cylinder rod. can also "personalize" your clutch pedal this way, i like my clutch pedals a specific way as far as feel and operation.

Just mentioning the "science" behind the solution so something is learned other then a task

oh and also be careful when popping off the old flywheel, do *not* hammer it. It's very much preferred to use a gear puller to pull off counterweights and flywheels. When using the puller be careful, it is a pretty serious tapered fit and has a tendency to really pop off fast and hard sometimes (older the motor the gets the bigger the pop). Seen many a person nearly scalped (i know you didnt mention how you removed it, or i didnt see it, so this is a general suggestion to everyone)

Congrats on the customer service, sounds like a good company to deal with. three cheers to the life of your new clutch, and at least someone can find & read instructions around here

kevin.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Adjusting the rod wasn't enough for me. I had to lengthen the pedal stroke too.
Going off the shop manual, the required stroke distance is 5.12", but mine was only 4.5"
I adjusted the pedal stop and got it just over 5".
Then I moved the rod in and gave it a 1/8" play between the rod end and the "piston" inside the clutch line (wanted the most engagement I could get).

Yeah.. I forgot to mention that.
We did use a puller on the flywheel.
And it did suddenly POP off and gave us a scare.

teknics

good info, glad you still remembered it so you could post it. The standard required stroke considers the standard parts so take that into consideration since you now have a stronger PP the stock specs are somewhat unnecessary as you now need new pressures and such.

yea the first one you do can scare the hell out of you, doesnt give much of a warning. considering most of the pullers we use are short, and use an impact gun with the engine above us so it pops off and if youre not ready it flies at your head, ive learned to lower the car and duck into the trans tunnel so it can keep it in front of my body and not my head, that way i can shield myself, flywheel is a lot heavier then it looks when it's being popped off by tons of builtup pressure .

kevin.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

I figured so, but I wanted a good starting point before I began tweaking the adjustments and going to factory specs is the best place to start.
But I'm pretty much at the factory specs on the pedal now.

I went with the 1/8" pedal play instead of the 1/4"-1/2" because I wanted it to be as little as possible so more of the pedal stroke was being utilized towards disengaging the clutch.
I would probably be OK adjusting that back to factory specs too, but I'm happy with it.

Razz1

Thanks, for mentioning this. I can't tell you how inportant safety is.

teknics

as work always says

"safety is always job #1"

kevin.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

My 2 cents;

1) I keep the 52mm nut threaded on the shaft about a turn or so. That way, when the flywheel "pops" off the e-shaft it won't go anywhere.
2) The length of the clutch pedal stroke has nothing to do with the amount of pressure applied at the release bearing/pressure plate.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Good idea!

Are you going to get into a "technically worded" argument too
Should I start putting a '*' next to my words?

Obviously, the distance the release fork travels is determined by the amount of fluid introduced into the slave cylinder (which is determined by pedal stroke).
Pressure is simply the force applied to an object.
Seriously... are we really going to get into a hydraulic argument here

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

I was addressing THIS particular statement, Jon, and it is not a simple matter of semantics but of concept.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Sorry bud... just woke up after a 3 hour nap and a little cranky
I just don't like people arguing over "technical wording" in a thread that is supposed to be helpful.
I'll shut up now

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Isn't that where things usually degenerate to around here?
That is why I try to be cautious; people misread, misunderstand, or simply don't know what is going on and then guess what? I get PMs that say, "But YOU said......." and so forth. BTW, our conversation(s), both on the phone and via PM, were helpful to ME in that they caused me to check my premises regarding all this stuff and that helps me to better help others.

JETS3T8

I'm having the same issue with this exact same setup and the clutch not disengaging. The mechanic said he is going to put spacers between the flywheel and pressure plate to see if this solves the problem or at least makes less of a clutch pedal adjustment necessary.

Does this sound ok? Has anybody heard of putting spacers between the flywheel and pressure plate before?

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

The "spacers" idea was something the Miata guys did way back when and I highly doubt it is needed here. Has your chosen shop already adjusted the free-play and pedal stroke as has been discussed in this thread?

JETS3T8

I agree that the spacers idea is most likely not needed, the mechanic said he did try to adjust the pedal "a little" and that didn't work. Basically, he's against having to make the pedal adjustment because he thinks it shouldn't have to be done and that the clutch is not setup right or something. I couldn't convince him to just install it without the spacers, put it all back and let me just tow it home and do the clutch adjustment myself. So the job has gone from $400 to $600 now because of all the "extra" work he said he had to do dropping the tranny multiple times. I told him I would try to have you call him to explain why the pedal adjustment is all that is needed, if possible and only if you don't mind, could you call him? Rob at 661-259-6026 if not, that's fine and I understand.
Any help right now would be extremely appreciated.

BTW- Big Thanks to Jon316G for posting this thread, at least now I know it's not the wrong clutch and just an adjustment.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Philosophically I used to agree with Rob on the adjustment issue in that I also felt it "should not" be needed for clutch swaps but, after talking with Jon316G during his own installation and outcome, my opinion is changing. Largely because Jon only had to adjust the stroke length a small amount and that he now has good clutch action and feel according to his own words.

As for paying another $200 to Rob for his efforts......... you REALLY don't want to hear my opinion on that one. Lemme just say that Jon here had little difficulty figuring it out, getting it to work properly, and even getting me to rethink my own position on the matter. Let's hope Rob can be equally open-minded.

Regarding the clutch not "being set up right"..... it's an Exedy clutch fer cryin' out loud. They make the OEM clutch! I am pretty sure they know what the proper clearances and height settings are.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

My wife rode in my car today for the first time since I corrected the pedal adjustments.
Before the adjustments, her back would really bother her while riding with me and she would take pain killers before getting in the car (she was in an accident a couple years ago and has to take them).
She mentioned to me that the ride was much better today for her and it didn't aggravate her back.

So according to my own words and Yulia's back, it made a difference