trustbuddy

iTrader: (3)

at $295, with a decent power increase, I don't see why this modification isn't more actively pursued.
Anyone who actually has this flash done, how do you like it?
i know lshu from this forum has it in his car. We met at a track but i never got to ride in his 8...should've, would've, could've...oh well..
anyone else with the RB flash want to comment? and possibly help me make up my mind?

Winning 8

It is a great investment, but it lack of adjust ability.If you got a DD and want to track your car for a few time this would be great, but if plan on doing more then just intake and exhaust, it will be better getting something else.
Also if you brought it back to the dealer you may lost the RB flash and you have to send it back and get charge for it.

Flashwing

The reason the RB flash isn't pursued anymore is because of two things. First, the flash is a generalized one size fits all and thus will not take advantage of specific modifications on your RX8.

Second, the flash requires that you send in your PCM and if your PCM is flashed by Mazda for any updates or your PCM is somehow damaged you will have to repeat the process and no doubt pay the $295 fee.

If you're looking for a complete tuning solution, the COBB accessport which is sold by MazdaManiac is the way to go. He can create custom tunes for your modifications and go beyond the RB flash for OMP adjustments, redline increases, fan speed adjustments, CEL elimination etc.

Plus, you can remove the tune at any time and reflash the car as necessary without having to pay for extra equipment OR send your PCM to someone leaving your car disabled.

AK RAM

Search "Racing Beat Flash" and "Racing Beat Tune." Lots to read. Too many M&M cheerleaders here to discuss other options openly any more. Then, call RB to get your info on what features their flash does or does not include. Lots of mis-info here on that too.

RB flash, intake & exhaust is +/- 4% of M&M tuned AP with intake and exhaust. That is all the mods 75% of RX8 owners will ever do. RB does better for some, AP does better for some. The difference is easily eaten by dyno and engine quality variance. Flip a coin.

Pop loose your OBDII port and zip-tie it up under the dash out of the way with a peice of duct tape over the front with "DO NOT FLASH" written in Sharpie. Your dealer will never mess with it after seeing that. If they are stupid and flash anyway, RB re-flash is not $295. Check their web site. Re-flash fee is posted.

trustbuddy

iTrader: (3)

where and how did you come up with this number??? not discrediting what you say. If it's info available to read somewhere on the net, i'd like to read it myself.

this is actually funny

Flashwing

By all means, please openly discuss the reasons why the RB flash would be a better option for the OP rather than a complete tune (whether it's done by Mazdamaniac or someone else) which covers all aspects of the car.

Is there a problem with RB's flash? No of course not. The reason I don't suggest it at this point is because it's a general, one size fits all, and if anything should happen to your PCM then you're out the $295 for the flash.

You're also faced with issues should you take the car into Mazda with that flash installed on your PCM. I can promise you it would void your warranty completely.

The RB flash was a suggestion of mine and many others for a long time until an affordable tuning solution came to market that didn't involve hacking and slashing your PCM wiring.

Implying I'm a "cheerleader" means that I have no basis for comparing these two products other than blind loyalty to COBB or MazdaManiac. I recommend the product cause it works and it's the best on the market for the tuning solutions people are seeking.

The only thing I am aware of the RB flash is capable of doing that the COBB cannot is disable the engine immobilizer. I don't, however, suggest that to anyone unless it's a track car only.

AK I'm interested in hearing your discussion regarding this topic. I'm always open to new information.

And how do you know this? Considering the tunes are locked and unable to be viewed I doubt you have any basis by which to judge the RB tune or anything from Mazdamaniac.

Again, dyno results are not the end all be all goal of the accessport or tuning the RX8. Dyno numbers serve no purpose other than to show how the car is functioning in a small set of circumstances at that point in time. There are dozens of other configurations which have nothing to do with WOT engine output.

No doubt! They also won't bother repairing your car under warranty either!

AK RAM

From reading here. Lots of people have been on the dyno with RB/Intake/Exhaust and M&M Tuned AP/Intake/Exhaust. Search "Racing Beat Flash" and "Racing Beat Tune." Lots to read. Key on threads with titles like "Dyno'd, Now What" or "Need some help." Some threads will be 3 and 4 pages long with a title that leads you to believe there is nothing inside for you, so you would normally skip it. Those are loaded with good info. You will see a lot of one-liners like "Picked up 18hp with my mods" or "I dyno'd 203" and nothing else said. Look at the person's signature and you will see an AP or RB flash with intake and exhaust, with the occasional underdrive pulley thrown in there. Keep score. Before you know it, you will have your own statistical analysis. You just have to spend the time and read. Mods for our car can be broken down into two categories: 1. Simple Bolt-ons (intake, exhaust, pulley) 2. FI

If you are going with option 2, you need complete tuning. You are wasting your time and money if you do not.

If you are going with option 1, you do not need complete tuning. What you need is a generalized improvement geared towards taking advantage of your new intake and exhaust. That is it. There is very little improvement to be had in this area and both products do well at giving it to you. You may want the complete tune, you may want to spend more money for it, you may want to say "I did it", you may want to deal with the custom map process or you may just want the window sticker. If you selected option 1, you certainly don’t need all of those things to take complete advantage of your simple bolt-on mods. Most RX8 owners will fall into this category.

Yes, you are a cheerleader. Every time RB Flash comes up you want to debate, argue, or discredit. That is why people don't openly discuss it any more. It gets tiresome. That doesn’t mean you are a bad guy. You my friend play for a team. You have your loyalties. Don’t be ashamed or defensive. That is just the way it is.

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

Local buddy has one, on a 2004 salvaged ECU, so you just swap your (factory original, warranteed, un-molested, never flashed, never mailed to California) computer for the RB one, as there is no immobilizer problem, it would work in any 2004/5/6 MT.

Literally 'plug'n'play'.......

I like the tune, it is obviously leaner and more powerful than stock - I can even hear the difference when accelerating - the RB program has a crackle in it's note.

He has an AP too, but the tune that Cobb offers for it is quite poor, and the other features are kind of irrelevant (valet, economy, etc.) and I was always paranoid about it freezing up during the flash procedure, and transforming my ECU into a paperweight.

S

rx 8speciale

iTrader: (3)

so i can buy a ecu send it to rb to get it reflash with the race flash and it will work with my 04 mt and then for warranty claims just take it out put the original back on and ready . dude im gonna do this

Daemos

That sounds more expensive than buying an accessport.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

from a sheer cost stand point, it's not as big of a value as an AccessPORT.
I am a HUGE Racing Beat fan but I need to give the nod to the AP in this battle.
-Customized tuning
- ability to alter / make your own tunes
- ability to use any tuner you want
- live data
- data logging
- if you go FI, you can still use

While the RB tune seems to be quite good, you just get more out of the AP. No having to ship your ECU, no down time, no worrying about the dealership flashing over the map and having to pay RB to reflash.

Flashwing

Of course I'm going to argue. The premise you're putting forth is the RB product is the best solution and it simply isn't. The RB flash is designed for a stock vehicle or at the most an RX8 equipped with RB parts (since they have them easily available.)

I take issue with anyone who suggests that I push a product simply because it's offered through my company. The reason we push the product is because it's the best out there. I cannot in good faith suggest a product to anyone that I don't believe in and I wouldn't use on my own vehicle.

The primary problem here is you're approaching this from a power gain standpoint only. If you examine the benefits the AP gives over the RB flash in it's complete package the AP is far and away a superior product. Increasing power output is one of over a dozen positive changes the AP can make. The emphasis should be on improving overall driveability, not just WOT.

I'm not FI and my RX8 runs totally different than its stock form. It was worth every penny I paid for it.

While I cannot control what goals the OP (or anyone else for that matter) has, here's the problems I saw with the stock tune and what the AP did for me. You all can be the judge.

Lack of OMP Injection - SOLVED: Able to ramp up the OMP injection across all load ranges and RPM.

Late Fan switch on - SOLVED: Able to lower switch on temps for fans preventing motor from overheating in situations where the fans are needed most. Not a replacement for a good radiator but it certainly helps.

Idle Hunt - SOLVED: Able to raise the idle to prevent the car from hunting and stumbling at idle. I now run a 950rpm idle.

Rich AFR - SOLVED: Able to tune in all load ranges and rpm ranges for fuel delivery to get the best AFR for my N/A setup. This also resulted in slight fuel mileage increases.

Poor MAF calibration - SOLVED: Aftermarket intakes throw off the MAF calibration. The AP can allow custom tuning of your MAF to ensure that your trims are not extreme and your airflow is properly calculated.

Annoying Check Engine Light - SOLVED: Able to switch off emissions check engine lights for the mid-pipe, air pump, and a bunch of other useless stuff. This will also allow me to pass emissions without a cat.

Low Fuel Cut - SOLVED: Able to raise redline to get a bit more out of each gear.

There are a whole host of other changes from dwell settings with the BHR ignition upgrade to adjusting the baro sensor so the car runs right at higher altitude, injector scaling for upgraded injectors and on and on and on. You cannot forget the ability to change flashes at any point, tune the car yourself using free software and the ability to flash back to stock for warranty repairs. I suppose it's important to mention the ability to view live data and datalog that information. Units that do that are $300 alone and don't allow any tuning!

The Racing Beat flash was the solution at a time when you could only tune the car with a piggyback or stand alone unit. It was a low cost alternative to people who wanted better power but couldn't afford and or operate more complex units.

Operating the AP is no more difficult than using an Ipod.

In the end, it's going to be up to the OP as to what they feel is the most cost effective solution. To order the RB flash you'll have to unhook your PCM and ship it (which you need to insure it for about $1,500) so that adds to the cost. You'll also violate your warranty since the dealership uses the OBDII port to check your vehicle even if they are not flashing it. If they become aware the PCM has been altered your warranty is history.

The choice is up to you.

Spin9k

Exactly, the choice is one that should be made on features, benefits and ease of use required. The consumer can choose what they need. You hit it right on the head saying "It was (edit: is) a low cost alternative to people who wanted better power but couldn't afford and or operate more complex units."

But speaking from a HP perspective only, terming the RB Fash like some stopgap solution "at the time" belittles the effort RB put into the tuning. Just because it was done early on by people intimately familar with Mazda ECUs shouldn't be reason to degrade their results. It was designed for a stock car (actually two flashes, one for a a DD and one for a CATless race preped car offered), but I don't see what it has to do with other RB parts offered?

RB is truly plug and play, requires no time spent fiddling with it, you can't screw the tune up yourself, you don't have the expense of hoping to get an 'optimal' tuning for your car that can easily cost $100s, and often far more, depending on who's doing it; not to mention the time, effort and frustration involved. Since you know the RB tune is 'safe' out of the box, and not potentially at or over the "bleeding edge", you can go right ahead and use the power produced without worry of engine damage.....

So saying "I cannot in good faith suggest a product to anyone that I don't believe in and I wouldn't use on my own vehicle." Huh? That sure sounds a bit disingenuous, and esp. hard to swallow as you sell the Cobb. Just what is the thing about the RB tune(s) you "don't believe in"? It's a tune not a religion.

...and YES!!! It doesn't do ANY of the host of OTHER wonderful functions the Cobb unit does! That's really important but only to some ... but to others it holds little or no value. And it's the value proposition for a product that guides how we all spend our money.

====
As you've guessed I imagine, I have a RB Flash (ala what Stealth suggested w/2 ECUs). On my stock DD/track car that's all I want. When using the flash it produces noticeable and reproduceable engine output improvements. Done, finshed, thank you RB. There are other things to spend time/money on, and fiddle around with. Concerning Mazda flashes, even wo/ the extra ECU, there don't appear to be anymore on the horizon, so the 'fear' that every time you show up the dealer, they're going to blow you RB Flash is really pretty much a mute point. And best of my knowledge RB says there is no way for the dealer re-flasher to 'know' anything about your RB flashed ECU. It would simple overwrite the RB flash, pure and simple. or get a spare ECU on ebay...no biggie if you are so concerned, like I was.

In no way am I belittling the Cobb unit, and it has a base tune for those not wanting to go further, it's a GREAT UNIT, and an AMAZING accomplishment. And obviously if you mod the engine, go FI, things like that, well you're in hook, line, and sinker anyway, you NEED the Cobb without doubt.

GREAT as this all is, not everyone wants to be an engine tuner, most aren't going FI. Speaking for myself, I just wanted to drive and enjoy the car, perhaps with a bit more power. I prefer to spend time & money on differently, for example driver improvement, as its been regularly shown that a better driver far overshadows a few incremental HP when it comes to getting the most from any car (perhaps except on the drag strip).

Take what I say as my opinion only, however given what is being said here, there are two side to every story ... and both sides need to be examined in an unbiased manner to understand the the better choice for any particular individual's needs.

Flashwing

Sounds like the RB flash is a great value. I'd get that instead.

dillsrotary

If you plan on staying N/A i would purchase the RB. I would also talk to Zoom44 (mod here) who was one of the first with the flash.

vansickey

The RB flash is a basic one size fits all tune. An easy improvement over stock. They really don't change a whole lot in their tune, a bit of timing, a little fuel work, rev limit, and fans on earlier, that's about it. Any decent tuner should be able to tune better than this to your specific car. I feeling tuning a car can increase your performance more than most bolt ons, and increase the gain of ones already installed. A custom tune would be best, but if you don't want that full expense, then definately try the RB flash, or If you're inclined as a do it yourselfer, buy a programmer, I don't know if the scanylizer for programming is out yet, but this is available http://obdscan.net/RX8_PGM.htm and tune yourself, or ask for help. It's much cheaper than the accessport and you can make the tuning adjustments yourself instead of paying someone and it's about the same price as the RB flash.