Stage 1.1 + L Reflash = Problems
03-10-2004, 06:19 PM
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Stage 1.1 + L Reflash = Problems
Hey all,
I had the "L" reflash done last week (varified it as well), and today CZ sent me back my Stage 1 or now the "Stage 1.1"
I'm sad to say, that I've got problems. First of all, I'd want to say this is not a "bash" of CZ, so don't take it that way (we all appreciate his efforts).
Ok, my car runs fine with no Stage 1 and with Stage 1 turned off. Well, I reinstalled it at about 4:30 this afternoon and took it out for some runs. I'm not RotaryGod, but I'll "try" to explain what happened. Cruising along at about 4000 rpm's, 3rd gear, 40 mph, I get some open road and hammer on it (pedal near the floor). The car accelerates smoothly and strongly until I reach 6500 rpm. All hell seemed to break loose at this point, and I feel the car just "stop" accelerating, as though it lost ALL fuel. I hear a sound unlike any I've ever heard. My best description is a "clanging" or maybe a "rattling." Neither of those are accurate descriptions of the sound I heard. I took me a second or two to react and let off the throttle. The car just wouldn't go past this "sticking point," at 6500. It scared the **** out of me. This car is new and only has 1460 miles on it, so you can imagine what I'm thinking.
After letting off, it regained its composure and seemed to run fine again. Call me stupid, but I tried it again, a couple of times. And of the five or six times (accelerating from 4000 to 6500 or so, in 3rd gear), it did it twice more. I noticed this happen a couple of times previous to the 1.1 upgrade and the "L" reflash, and i sent my unit back thinking it was a "glitch."
I'm leery, disappointed, and frusterated at this point. Any input, questions, or answers are welcome. I'm just hoping, at this point, CZ will just let me return it for a credit. God, I hope so...
EDIT:
For those who don't want to read this whole thread or those who just don't "get it."
My car ran great from the day I picked it up. I did things in this order:
Installed Borla Exhaust, result, car runs fine. Month later, installed Green filter, result, car runs fine. Month later, installed Canzoomer Stage 1, result, multiple occurances of detonation. I removed the Stage 1, and sent it back to Maurice for fixing (updating). While my unit was with CZ, my car ran fine once again. I got the reflash, varified it, and result, the car runs fine. I received my Stage 1.1 back from CZ yesterday, installed it, result, detonation.
What about this aren't you understanding. THE ONLY TIME IT HAS EVER HAPPENED IS WITH THE STAGE 1 OR 1.1 INSTALLED!!!
I had the "L" reflash done last week (varified it as well), and today CZ sent me back my Stage 1 or now the "Stage 1.1"
I'm sad to say, that I've got problems. First of all, I'd want to say this is not a "bash" of CZ, so don't take it that way (we all appreciate his efforts).
Ok, my car runs fine with no Stage 1 and with Stage 1 turned off. Well, I reinstalled it at about 4:30 this afternoon and took it out for some runs. I'm not RotaryGod, but I'll "try" to explain what happened. Cruising along at about 4000 rpm's, 3rd gear, 40 mph, I get some open road and hammer on it (pedal near the floor). The car accelerates smoothly and strongly until I reach 6500 rpm. All hell seemed to break loose at this point, and I feel the car just "stop" accelerating, as though it lost ALL fuel. I hear a sound unlike any I've ever heard. My best description is a "clanging" or maybe a "rattling." Neither of those are accurate descriptions of the sound I heard. I took me a second or two to react and let off the throttle. The car just wouldn't go past this "sticking point," at 6500. It scared the **** out of me. This car is new and only has 1460 miles on it, so you can imagine what I'm thinking.
After letting off, it regained its composure and seemed to run fine again. Call me stupid, but I tried it again, a couple of times. And of the five or six times (accelerating from 4000 to 6500 or so, in 3rd gear), it did it twice more. I noticed this happen a couple of times previous to the 1.1 upgrade and the "L" reflash, and i sent my unit back thinking it was a "glitch."
I'm leery, disappointed, and frusterated at this point. Any input, questions, or answers are welcome. I'm just hoping, at this point, CZ will just let me return it for a credit. God, I hope so...
EDIT:
For those who don't want to read this whole thread or those who just don't "get it."
My car ran great from the day I picked it up. I did things in this order:
Installed Borla Exhaust, result, car runs fine. Month later, installed Green filter, result, car runs fine. Month later, installed Canzoomer Stage 1, result, multiple occurances of detonation. I removed the Stage 1, and sent it back to Maurice for fixing (updating). While my unit was with CZ, my car ran fine once again. I got the reflash, varified it, and result, the car runs fine. I received my Stage 1.1 back from CZ yesterday, installed it, result, detonation.
What about this aren't you understanding. THE ONLY TIME IT HAS EVER HAPPENED IS WITH THE STAGE 1 OR 1.1 INSTALLED!!!
Last edited by mdw33333; 03-11-2004 at 06:35 PM.
03-10-2004, 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by WHealy
mdw33333,
So to claify - you had this same reaction prior to the "1.1" and prior to the "L" flash but not every time? And now it happens all the time?
mdw33333,
So to claify - you had this same reaction prior to the "1.1" and prior to the "L" flash but not every time? And now it happens all the time?
03-10-2004, 07:17 PM
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That sounds a lot like what I experienced a while back. Except, I was trying on a new air intake. After installation of the new intake, I tried about 10 test runs. Accelerating from a rolling 2nd and onward to redline. Every time I hit 7,000 rpm, the car made this clanging sounds as if something had came loose in the engine. At the same time, there was a definite drop of power, which felt like something gave the car a violent tug. The engine never did throw a code while all these are happening.
I took the car to the dealer. And of course, they couldn't find anything wrong. At that time, my 8 had about 1,200 miles. It was a rainy day out.
Til today, I have not attempted to install an air intake.
I do have a Borla.
I took the car to the dealer. And of course, they couldn't find anything wrong. At that time, my 8 had about 1,200 miles. It was a rainy day out.
Til today, I have not attempted to install an air intake.
I do have a Borla.
03-10-2004, 07:41 PM
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Could this sound come from the secondary ports? Maybe they are not opening or they are just flapping.
This would explain the noise and loss of power right?
This would explain the noise and loss of power right?
03-10-2004, 07:48 PM
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I hate to use the dreaded word, but your description sounds possibly like detonation. That, plus the fact that if it did happen the ECU's knock sensor would trigger, would cause your power loss.
jds
jds
03-10-2004, 07:55 PM
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Re: Stage 1.1 + L Reflash = Problems
Originally posted by mdw33333
The car accelerates smoothly and strongly until I reach 6500 rpm. All hell seemed to break loose at this point, and I feel the car just "stop" accelerating, as though it lost ALL fuel. I hear a sound unlike any I've ever heard. My best description is a "clanging" or maybe a "rattling."
The car accelerates smoothly and strongly until I reach 6500 rpm. All hell seemed to break loose at this point, and I feel the car just "stop" accelerating, as though it lost ALL fuel. I hear a sound unlike any I've ever heard. My best description is a "clanging" or maybe a "rattling."
Are you sure you werent hearing detonation?
Detonation can have a " rattle" sound...or sharp ping sound.
What octane fuel were you using? Any CEL with the incident?
I would tend to assume you had a very lean, or too much ignition advance situation causing that sound. Based on your description.
Bad Bad Bad
In any case......I'd lay off the CZ for awhile.
EDIT..... all the detonation posts came all at once. sorry for sounding redundant
03-10-2004, 07:59 PM
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That is the mystery of it all. Whether it was detonation, which I agree that clanging noise did resemble, or the variable air duct valve not opening correctly, shouldn't the PCM register a code? I welcome any additional input anyone could provide.
Sorry mdw33333, I don't mean to hijack the thread. I also am waiting for my Stage 1 to return from CZ.
Sorry mdw33333, I don't mean to hijack the thread. I also am waiting for my Stage 1 to return from CZ.
03-10-2004, 08:12 PM
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Maybe the L flash. I requested my dealer to install it because post said may increase mpg. It did, mine was one getting 13 to 16 mpg. A very noticable increase in first tank of gas but now I have MAJOR engine noise, like you are attempting to describe, as well as the engine sometimes cutting out at 4500 rpm when pushed hard.
I don't have the stage one but do have the RX8 store exhaust and a Green drop in filter. Had no problems for 1200 miles with these installed until the reflash. I'm not saying that all RX8's are not doing fine with the L flash.....it just doesn't agree with this 8.
Service dept said they will look into it in the morning and put the old program in if I want. He did say the filter and exhaust had nothing to do with my problems.
I don't have the stage one but do have the RX8 store exhaust and a Green drop in filter. Had no problems for 1200 miles with these installed until the reflash. I'm not saying that all RX8's are not doing fine with the L flash.....it just doesn't agree with this 8.
Service dept said they will look into it in the morning and put the old program in if I want. He did say the filter and exhaust had nothing to do with my problems.
03-10-2004, 08:21 PM
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I had this noise this past sunday when I pushed it hard, like you did past 6k. I do not have the CZ1 installed. I had filled up 60+ miles earlier with BP 89. I immediately put in some shell 93 and it seemed to help. Tonight I put more 93 in and it has gone away.
It does sound like bad gas, or at least to low of an octaine?
It does sound like bad gas, or at least to low of an octaine?
03-10-2004, 08:21 PM
#15
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detonation + ecu detuning due to info from knock sensor is the most likely scenario.
was your car fully warm? the engine has a lower (6500 rpm) electronic redline when the engine is not to operating temp. maybe a bad temp sensor?
was your car fully warm? the engine has a lower (6500 rpm) electronic redline when the engine is not to operating temp. maybe a bad temp sensor?
03-10-2004, 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by Sea Ray
I had this noise this past sunday when I pushed it hard, like you did past 6k. I do not have the CZ1 installed. I had filled up 60+ miles earlier with BP 89. I immediately put in some shell 93 and it seemed to help. Tonight I put more 93 in and it has gone away.
It does sound like bad gas, or at least to low of an octaine?
I had this noise this past sunday when I pushed it hard, like you did past 6k. I do not have the CZ1 installed. I had filled up 60+ miles earlier with BP 89. I immediately put in some shell 93 and it seemed to help. Tonight I put more 93 in and it has gone away.
It does sound like bad gas, or at least to low of an octaine?
03-10-2004, 08:27 PM
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Yes on the L flash. I have had the flash for a while but had never had this noise until I tried BP gas. At first I thought it could be the dampner vibrating but it did go away with better fuel.
03-10-2004, 09:06 PM
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I am running 92 octane gas, as I always do. The engine was warm, because I'd been cruising a awile. Someone please explain detonation to me, and what (if any) perminate damage may be done? By the way, no CEL was thrown.
03-10-2004, 09:12 PM
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I knew I shouldn't have f**ked with this thing. If I have problems from this point on, I'm going to flip out. I've already pulled the Stage 1.1. It's NOT going back in my car.
I can hear my wife now: "Why can't you leave well enough alone?"
I can hear my wife now: "Why can't you leave well enough alone?"
03-10-2004, 09:22 PM
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Detonation is premature combustion of air/fuel mixture. Its an uncontrolled burn, causing increased pressure within the combustion chamber that CAN cause harm if repeated.
This can be cause by many scenarios. A too lean condition will definately cause this. Along with too much ignition advance.
Temperature, barometric pressure, fuel octane...all have parts in causing detonation.
in older engines, a build up of deposits in the combustion chamber can raise the effective compression ratio.....making the the engine more prone to detonation.
The RX8 has a very good safety net agaist detonation. It has a ping sensor and has multiple ways to stop ping.....once its started.
If what you heard was in fact detonation....( I may not have been)...and it was only a few times......I wouldn't call the junk yard just yet....I'm sure its fine.
This can be cause by many scenarios. A too lean condition will definately cause this. Along with too much ignition advance.
Temperature, barometric pressure, fuel octane...all have parts in causing detonation.
in older engines, a build up of deposits in the combustion chamber can raise the effective compression ratio.....making the the engine more prone to detonation.
The RX8 has a very good safety net agaist detonation. It has a ping sensor and has multiple ways to stop ping.....once its started.
If what you heard was in fact detonation....( I may not have been)...and it was only a few times......I wouldn't call the junk yard just yet....I'm sure its fine.
03-10-2004, 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by Gyro
Detonation is premature combustion of air/fuel mixture. Its an uncontrolled burn, causing increased pressure within the combustion chamber that CAN cause harm if repeated.
This can be cause by many scenarios. A too lean condition will definately cause this. Along with too much ignition advance.
Temperature, barometric pressure, fuel octane...all have parts in causing detonation.
in older engines, a build up of deposits in the combustion chamber can raise the effective compression ratio.....making the the engine more prone to detonation.
The RX8 has a very good safety net agaist detonation. It has a ping sensor and has multiple ways to stop ping.....once its started.
If what you heard was in fact detonation....( I may not have been)...and it was only a few times......I wouldn't call the junk yard just yet....I'm sure its fine.
Detonation is premature combustion of air/fuel mixture. Its an uncontrolled burn, causing increased pressure within the combustion chamber that CAN cause harm if repeated.
This can be cause by many scenarios. A too lean condition will definately cause this. Along with too much ignition advance.
Temperature, barometric pressure, fuel octane...all have parts in causing detonation.
in older engines, a build up of deposits in the combustion chamber can raise the effective compression ratio.....making the the engine more prone to detonation.
The RX8 has a very good safety net agaist detonation. It has a ping sensor and has multiple ways to stop ping.....once its started.
If what you heard was in fact detonation....( I may not have been)...and it was only a few times......I wouldn't call the junk yard just yet....I'm sure its fine.
03-11-2004, 12:01 AM
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I am now kind of freaking out since I too am at sea level (as MDW333 is at sea level as well).
I took my car in tonight for work tomorrow morning and printed out TSB's and posts here saying I wanted the "L" flash.
My CZ stage 1 unit should be coming shortly. So now I'm not sure what to do- call the dealership and ask them to hold off on the flash? I wish Maurice was around to address some of these issues. Any guesses as to whether the variances are in fact due to altitude?
I took my car in tonight for work tomorrow morning and printed out TSB's and posts here saying I wanted the "L" flash.
My CZ stage 1 unit should be coming shortly. So now I'm not sure what to do- call the dealership and ask them to hold off on the flash? I wish Maurice was around to address some of these issues. Any guesses as to whether the variances are in fact due to altitude?
03-11-2004, 12:28 AM
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mdw33333,
If you ask me, I think your detonating. DO NOT drive your car hard until you get an accurate A/F reading........An A/F reading is going to let you know if you’re running to lean. -----Just my two cents.
If you ask me, I think your detonating. DO NOT drive your car hard until you get an accurate A/F reading........An A/F reading is going to let you know if you’re running to lean. -----Just my two cents.