Video Game vs Real Racing
11-22-2011, 08:59 PM
#1
Video Game vs Real Racing
So basically I am trying to see if video games such as GT5 is worth the investment.
I have done two years of autocross, and I want to slowly get into road racing. The biggest challenge for road racing is the cost. I wonder if I can get some valuable skill from the video game, or it is just a waste of time?
I have done two years of autocross, and I want to slowly get into road racing. The biggest challenge for road racing is the cost. I wonder if I can get some valuable skill from the video game, or it is just a waste of time?
11-23-2011, 06:26 AM
#5
Voids warranties
Clarkson did that test on an episode of Top Gear a few years back with an Acura NSX at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca. I think his platform was PS2 and it was with Gran Tourismo its a pretty cool episode. If you have netflix you should check it out. Gotta run now but later ill try to find a link for you.
11-23-2011, 06:30 AM
#6
Voids warranties
11-23-2011, 06:39 AM
#7
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You will gain some knowledge in general that will help, but the biggest issues I see would be
1. your car setup will not exactly match the game so it's limits will be different and 2. learning the track on which you will be physically racing & finding the preferred entry / exit points for each of the turns. Unless the track you will physically race on is in the game, it won't help you with that either.
There is obviously some benefit. A few years ago I saw a report on some of the up and coming racers and how playing the game helped them shorten their learning curve in the car. But again, these were guys racing on the same tracks that were provided in the game.
But at the very least, for me racing is the only form of gaming. So it's fun no matter if it helps or not
GT5 is more like a simulator, while Forza, though still excellent, a bit more like a game.
1. your car setup will not exactly match the game so it's limits will be different and 2. learning the track on which you will be physically racing & finding the preferred entry / exit points for each of the turns. Unless the track you will physically race on is in the game, it won't help you with that either.
There is obviously some benefit. A few years ago I saw a report on some of the up and coming racers and how playing the game helped them shorten their learning curve in the car. But again, these were guys racing on the same tracks that were provided in the game.
But at the very least, for me racing is the only form of gaming. So it's fun no matter if it helps or not
GT5 is more like a simulator, while Forza, though still excellent, a bit more like a game.
11-23-2011, 07:09 AM
#8
GT5 and Forza are just games. They don't even come close to being a simulator.
Rfactor is much better for your goals, they also develop simulators for racing teams, automotive engineers etc. Polyphony and Turn 10 are just software houses and only get feedback from their hired engineers and fat programmers
Racing simulators are expensive. Computer or console aside you need AT least a good steering wheel and a big television.
A steering wheel costs anywhere between 500 and 4000$ (yes...), then add a cheap seat and the big tv.
Fanatec makes some good cheap wheels with decent pedals. Not the best but a better bang for the bucks than any thrustmaster or logitech gaming product.
Don't underestimate using a big tv from very close or a projector. Playing in a small screen throws everything out of scale.
Rfactor is much better for your goals, they also develop simulators for racing teams, automotive engineers etc. Polyphony and Turn 10 are just software houses and only get feedback from their hired engineers and fat programmers
Racing simulators are expensive. Computer or console aside you need AT least a good steering wheel and a big television.
A steering wheel costs anywhere between 500 and 4000$ (yes...), then add a cheap seat and the big tv.
Fanatec makes some good cheap wheels with decent pedals. Not the best but a better bang for the bucks than any thrustmaster or logitech gaming product.
Don't underestimate using a big tv from very close or a projector. Playing in a small screen throws everything out of scale.
11-23-2011, 07:58 AM
#9
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Rfactor and iRacing are the two top dogs in the racing simulator world. I haven't used either one, but mostly because I would turn either into a huge time sink and my wife and I agree that I shouldn't be doing that right now. However, neither is a "game" at all. They are as close to real life simulation as you can get without actually being in a car on a track. There is a reason why the professionals use them during "down-time" to keep their track memory solid. There is no "game" aspect to it at all, no driver assists, no fuzzy math, no fudged numbers to make it easier. And you have a permanent record, so screwing up in a race isn't a mild "oops." They can and will ban you permanently for too poor of a safety record.
The two lesser dogs, GT5 and Forza are significantly more of a "game", with Forza being much more heavily focus on the game aspect, GT5 focused much more heavily on the physics model. So GT5 sucks as a game, but is noticeably better than Forza in the actual driving physics. GT5's accuracy failures are mostly in some of the most bullheaded
parts. Like you can't adjust tire pressures. 
I've written up a list elsewhere of everything that GT5 is missing that it needs to bring it to the simulator status that they advertised it as. Don't get me wrong, the actual feedback and physics model is fantastic (though under the two top sims), but there are additional things missing that keep it from being what it should be, and nothing that is impossible in their current game engine.
And I've raced on them both and ditched Forza for GT5, so this isn't just stuff I'm repeating. It's my experience with each.
The two lesser dogs, GT5 and Forza are significantly more of a "game", with Forza being much more heavily focus on the game aspect, GT5 focused much more heavily on the physics model. So GT5 sucks as a game, but is noticeably better than Forza in the actual driving physics. GT5's accuracy failures are mostly in some of the most bullheaded
parts. Like you can't adjust tire pressures. I've written up a list elsewhere of everything that GT5 is missing that it needs to bring it to the simulator status that they advertised it as. Don't get me wrong, the actual feedback and physics model is fantastic (though under the two top sims), but there are additional things missing that keep it from being what it should be, and nothing that is impossible in their current game engine.And I've raced on them both and ditched Forza for GT5, so this isn't just stuff I'm repeating. It's my experience with each.
11-23-2011, 08:43 AM
#10
I've done some autocross; these games are undoubtedly helpful to some degree. At the very least, they put your head into a racing-like environment, so that you're thinking about things like entry points, lines through corners, where not to brake, etc. And, of course, they're fun.
I'm not hard core and, compared to many, don't have a lot of money invested. I bought a steadiplay stand (http://steadiplay.com/Steadiplay-Con...B003R1E5R8.htm) to hold my Logitech Driving Force Pro wheel and pedals. (It folds up with a small footprint when I'm not playing and fits against the wall or in a closet. So, compared to some set-ups, my living room looks normal when I'm not playing.) I sit right on top of my 34" screen in a simple chair (http://www.containerstore.com/shop?p...0&N=&Ntt=chair) and play GT5 because of its realistic driving physics and gorgeous graphics. Plus I don't want to play on my Mac and I certainly don't want a PC in the house. (Advanced sim racing requires a PC and its user-unfriendly world of directories, file extensions and other alien nonsense.)
Definitely check out insidesimracing.com. They have reviews of just about every game, driving rig, wheel, tweaks, etc, from basic gaming all the way up to hard core sim racing. They also have the fetching Jessica Lopez and her annoying voice.
I'm not hard core and, compared to many, don't have a lot of money invested. I bought a steadiplay stand (http://steadiplay.com/Steadiplay-Con...B003R1E5R8.htm) to hold my Logitech Driving Force Pro wheel and pedals. (It folds up with a small footprint when I'm not playing and fits against the wall or in a closet. So, compared to some set-ups, my living room looks normal when I'm not playing.) I sit right on top of my 34" screen in a simple chair (http://www.containerstore.com/shop?p...0&N=&Ntt=chair) and play GT5 because of its realistic driving physics and gorgeous graphics. Plus I don't want to play on my Mac and I certainly don't want a PC in the house. (Advanced sim racing requires a PC and its user-unfriendly world of directories, file extensions and other alien nonsense.)
Definitely check out insidesimracing.com. They have reviews of just about every game, driving rig, wheel, tweaks, etc, from basic gaming all the way up to hard core sim racing. They also have the fetching Jessica Lopez and her annoying voice.
11-23-2011, 10:06 AM
#11
Very nice! I will spend the money then. I know this is going to be a time sink but oh well, if I can do a lap or two after work everyday how nice is that. I will try out different things. Probably start with games and cheap stuff first, but those online simulator looks very interesting. Eventually I will move into those.
Thanks a lot for the info! Now I can add these into the Thanksgiving shopping list. :P
I will try out different things. Probably start with games and cheap stuff first, but those online simulator looks very interesting. Eventually I will move into those.Thanks a lot for the info! Now I can add these into the Thanksgiving shopping list. :P
11-23-2011, 10:14 AM
#12
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It will have to be more than a lap or two 
If you are interested (and pick GT5), we have a GT5 race league that is about half RX8Club members and half NASIOC (Subbie forum). (https://www.rx8club.com/polls-70/official-rx8club-gt5-race-league-210444/page42/) We currently race on Monday nights, though the night changes periodically for what makes sense. It's really competitive but doesn't get nasty or anything. In practice through the week between races most of us are typically posting practice times within 1 second of each other, though the actual race sees us a bit more spread out.
While still "just a game", it is noticeable that our top-down list of fastest guys is also approximately a top-down list of total autocross/track time.
I'd recommend starting at the last page of that thread and then read back a couple pages, as the thread is almost a year old and has gone through several "seasons" with different tracks, different rules, etc... each "season".
If you are interested (and pick GT5), we have a GT5 race league that is about half RX8Club members and half NASIOC (Subbie forum). (https://www.rx8club.com/polls-70/official-rx8club-gt5-race-league-210444/page42/) We currently race on Monday nights, though the night changes periodically for what makes sense. It's really competitive but doesn't get nasty or anything. In practice through the week between races most of us are typically posting practice times within 1 second of each other, though the actual race sees us a bit more spread out.
While still "just a game", it is noticeable that our top-down list of fastest guys is also approximately a top-down list of total autocross/track time.
I'd recommend starting at the last page of that thread and then read back a couple pages, as the thread is almost a year old and has gone through several "seasons" with different tracks, different rules, etc... each "season".
11-23-2011, 11:02 AM
#13
I guess this answers your question…
Kazunori Yamauchi (creator of GT5): You might be surprised by my answer, but I actually didn’t have that much time to prepare or train this year for the race. I actually brought a copy of GT5 to the hotel, and throughout the event, I would come back to the hotel and practice again with the game. Even while the actual race was going on, between my driving sessions, I was practicing in GT5!
11-23-2011, 12:46 PM
#14
How has the name Bryan Heitkotter not come up in this thread??? Was he a driver that was good at games, or a gamer that could drive? Its the old chicken or the egg story. Three time SCCA Solo champ (once in an RX-8), goes on to win the GT Academy and is now a pro driver in Europe.
You got to have the talent behind the wheel, but I think Bryan showed that playing a game wont slow you down. Other big names that like to play games... Dale Jr is a big iRacing fan, and Joey Logano loves GT5. But I think they were all fast in a car long before they they got their game on.
You got to have the talent behind the wheel, but I think Bryan showed that playing a game wont slow you down. Other big names that like to play games... Dale Jr is a big iRacing fan, and Joey Logano loves GT5. But I think they were all fast in a car long before they they got their game on.
11-23-2011, 04:08 PM
#15
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"I've done some autocrossing." 
And so have I! Bryan is always the most humble guy when it comes to his achievements. I have watched a bunch of his iRacing replays, he is something else. 
There's no doubt that sim racing can help speed up your learning curve, but I think it also depends on your driving style. There are driving habits one can develop driving a virtual car that they wouldn't get away with on a real track. iRacing is arguably the most realistic sim due to the laser-scanned tracks and cars and it will teach you a lot about racecraft and safety since you can only advance if you meet the safety rating requirements. The other great thing about iRacing is that there are practice and race sessions pretty much around the clock if you're on a crazy schedule. I actually haven't been on iRacing in ages due to work but really want to get back into it. The only con to me is that the costs add up between the subscription and buying new tracks and cars. As for rFactor, I've only used it to check out the Nurburgring and it's a lot of fun too. The graphics aren't as stunning, but there are a lot more cars and tracks available and there is a LOT more you can do to the cars in terms of mods if you're into that. And you only pay a one-time fee. The thing about PC simulators is that you need a system that will handle the graphics, especially for iRacing.
And so have I! Bryan is always the most humble guy when it comes to his achievements. I have watched a bunch of his iRacing replays, he is something else. There's no doubt that sim racing can help speed up your learning curve, but I think it also depends on your driving style. There are driving habits one can develop driving a virtual car that they wouldn't get away with on a real track. iRacing is arguably the most realistic sim due to the laser-scanned tracks and cars and it will teach you a lot about racecraft and safety since you can only advance if you meet the safety rating requirements. The other great thing about iRacing is that there are practice and race sessions pretty much around the clock if you're on a crazy schedule. I actually haven't been on iRacing in ages due to work but really want to get back into it. The only con to me is that the costs add up between the subscription and buying new tracks and cars. As for rFactor, I've only used it to check out the Nurburgring and it's a lot of fun too. The graphics aren't as stunning, but there are a lot more cars and tracks available and there is a LOT more you can do to the cars in terms of mods if you're into that. And you only pay a one-time fee. The thing about PC simulators is that you need a system that will handle the graphics, especially for iRacing.
11-24-2011, 05:55 AM
#16
Nice! As long as it doesn't make me slower in real world I'd do it. I didn't know game has become so real...I always though that you would only real things are real...uh what am I talking about...
I will start on GT5 and iRacing first. Maybe try out other platform after I master those two. That should keep me busy for another year...lol
I doesn't seem like iRacing needs any fancy computer. It seems my little laptop with a dedicated graphic card would probably do it. We will see.
So I was thinking there is a lot of sensation in real racing that you don't have in the game. Such as all the g's your body is sensing. In the game the steering wheel is the only input, other than the video and audio. I guess that along gives you quite a bit of info huh?
I want to go fast!!!
I will start on GT5 and iRacing first. Maybe try out other platform after I master those two. That should keep me busy for another year...lol
I doesn't seem like iRacing needs any fancy computer. It seems my little laptop with a dedicated graphic card would probably do it. We will see.
So I was thinking there is a lot of sensation in real racing that you don't have in the game. Such as all the g's your body is sensing. In the game the steering wheel is the only input, other than the video and audio. I guess that along gives you quite a bit of info huh?
I want to go fast!!!
11-24-2011, 08:56 AM
#18
Nice! As long as it doesn't make me slower in real world I'd do it. I didn't know game has become so real...I always though that you would only real things are real...uh what am I talking about...
I will start on GT5 and iRacing first. Maybe try out other platform after I master those two. That should keep me busy for another year...lol
I doesn't seem like iRacing needs any fancy computer. It seems my little laptop with a dedicated graphic card would probably do it. We will see.
So I was thinking there is a lot of sensation in real racing that you don't have in the game. Such as all the g's your body is sensing. In the game the steering wheel is the only input, other than the video and audio. I guess that along gives you quite a bit of info huh?
I want to go fast!!!
I will start on GT5 and iRacing first. Maybe try out other platform after I master those two. That should keep me busy for another year...lol
I doesn't seem like iRacing needs any fancy computer. It seems my little laptop with a dedicated graphic card would probably do it. We will see.
So I was thinking there is a lot of sensation in real racing that you don't have in the game. Such as all the g's your body is sensing. In the game the steering wheel is the only input, other than the video and audio. I guess that along gives you quite a bit of info huh?
I want to go fast!!!
if you really want your hair blown back, run it on a high-end gaming PC with a 3D monitor.
11-24-2011, 11:41 AM
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Congrats to you for wanting to race! Any game that has the most accurate rendering(sp) of the track is your best tool to have. Learning the course layout and how the turns connect to each otherBEFORE you get to the track is invaluble when the track layout it is already in your head. By being able to anticipate your next turn before you get there helps you to place the car properly. I have heard good things about Iracing from guys I know in GranAm. I don't personally have these games myself for the similar reason RIWWP doesn't, I don't have the time to spend on it right now(I know it would be immpossible to stop once I start). If you are going to go racing I suggest you find local club events to go to and find someone that rents cars to use. This is the CHEAPEST way to get into it because you will have a prepared vehicle and an owner with a vested interest in teaching you the right way of doing things. The last thing you want to do first is build a car. Get seat time, learn to race, and then you will figure out what you want from there. It is always easier and cheaper to buy from someone that has done all the work and you can concentrate on make improvements rather than building from scratch. Just my opinion 'cause I've been there.
11-26-2011, 03:36 PM
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bse is correct. GT5 won't teach you much, if anything. It can use what you already know, and fill a "fix".
iRacing and rFactor are much better at teaching you something, and even then most of what they teach is sight picture, learning the real life tracks. GT5 has real life tracks, but ones you will likely never drive on. >50% of the tracks are fantasy tracks. About the only other thing that these sims can teach you is throttle and braking control, and GT5 won't really help you there. The two big sims can get you closer to where you need to be.
iRacing and rFactor are much better at teaching you something, and even then most of what they teach is sight picture, learning the real life tracks. GT5 has real life tracks, but ones you will likely never drive on. >50% of the tracks are fantasy tracks. About the only other thing that these sims can teach you is throttle and braking control, and GT5 won't really help you there. The two big sims can get you closer to where you need to be.
OK. just don't be disappointed with how iRacing runs on your laptop.
11-27-2011, 10:13 PM
#25
I just bought the Logitech GT wheel...I know it's not the best but I just want something to start with for now. I am downloading iRacing right now...Let's see how much I like it. If I like it enough I can certainly spend some money on building a PC.