Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Reposting from the Tires/Suspension forum where I got no replies. Hoping to make a purchase within the next couple of days, MazdaSpeed shocks and Swift Springs.
Wanted to get some feedback before I buy.

After giving up on the idea of doing changing just the springs; I have decided to buy shock/spring combo. I am planning on getting it used hence a few questions on set up. As I am not interested in adjustable shocks so I am limited to a few choices: MazdaSpeed, Tein Basic, Bilstein. I already have RB front and rear sway bars on the car and am not planning to change them.

I track my car and am mostly interested in track performance, (HPDE).

I have read quite a bit on Tein Basics and this seems to be a well coordinated suspension for the money. However I am thinking that the RB sways might be an overkill with such a stiff suspension. I have pm'd various people with this set up but was unable to get any kind of specific info. For the experts out there, will this set up make the car to twitchy so to speak?

As I am buying used I know that I might not be able to get the MazdaSpeed shocks matched up to MazdaSpeed springs. I assume since the MazdaSpeed springs are quite stiff this is probably what Mazda (Tokico) matched specifically to the shocks. So I am wondering how will the MazdaSpeed shocks work with something like Swift progressive springs or Tein H tech?
I am thinking this set up might work better with the RB sways them the original MazdaSpeed springs because it isn’t quite as stiff. On the other hand the shocks were matched with a specific spring and perhaps it is better to just go with it. If anyone is running such a set up or has general thoughts on the subject please share them.

The last option is matching up Bilstein HD shocks with some springs; they will probably work well with something like Swift or S tech since they are originally designed to work with the stock springs.

I am completely new to suspension set up so any help is appreciated.


P.S

I know that ideally I should probably be matching up sways to the shock/spring but I am not planning to part with the RB sways thus I have to work around them.


Swift:
3.7 Kg/mm 207 lbs/inch
1.6-2.3 Kg/mm 90-129 lbs/inch

Stock 'Sport' Suspension RX-8: 156/113 (F/R)
Mazdaspeed: 280/190 - Drop = 0.8"/0.8"
Tein S-Tech: 207/145 - Drop = 1.4"/0.7"
Tein H-Tech: 179/129 - Drop = 1.0"/0.3"
H&R: 195/141 (progressive) - Drop = 1.0"/1.0

CosmosMpower

I like my Konis and MS springs, quite a bit stiffer than stock but would be interested to see how Swift springs are with Konis.

P.S. there is no such thing as RX-8 "sport" suspension, only auto vs manual. Sport is a package trim that has nothing to do with suspension.

SouthFL

Get in touch with Bilstein directly. Supply your vehicle info, spring rate and they can revalve a set of dampers specifically for your application.
Another option is to get a set of Koni's and not worry about their adjustability- dial them in to a commonly used setting at install and forget about them. You can then make adjustments using adjustable sway bars, tire pressure, etc.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Ok it seems to be coming down to the MazdaSpeed shocks. Now the question is what will be the best set up with the RB sways. MS springs, Swift, S tech. EDIT: H&R


Swift:
3.7 Kg/mm 207 lbs/inch
1.6-2.3 Kg/mm 90-129 lbs/inch

Stock 'Sport' Suspension RX-8: 156/113 (F/R)
Mazdaspeed: 280/190 - Drop = 0.8"/0.8"
Tein S-Tech: 207/145 - Drop = 1.4"/0.7"
H&R Sport 1.25" 195 lb Progressive 1.25" 141 lb Progressive


P.S don't know if this is relevant but I am not running R compounds or doing anything with the alignment Edit: (Fow Now)

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

Then there is not much point in wasting money on the other parts.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

You probably have a point, I was thinking about this myself. Will getting a MazdaSpeed suspension be a “waste of money” due to the grip constraint of the street tires.
I suppose it makes more sense to get a set of R compound for the track?
For now however this isn't an option, maybe down the line I will get a set 17s with some RA1 on them. Just for the track.

I am planning to get the MS shocks though so If anyone has any suggestions besides rendering my whole project useless, you are welcome to share them.

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

A second set of wheels with some R compounds will make more difference than all of the rest of the parts combined.

SouthFL

Seat time in your stock suspension RX-8 with street tires trumps all of the above mods.
If you want to do something pro-active, then,
Step 1. Alignment.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

the H&R's then

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

This was one of the suggestions I got from my instructors. And hopefully this will be the next step (which is funny cause after getting the AFE shortshifter I swore this is the first and last thing I am getting for the car).
For now however I am intreseted in getting some feedback on what spring would be the best match for the MazdaSpeed shock and RB sways.
If I make some extra dough during the winter the tires would be the next step.

As I mention in my original post I know that perhaps I am doing somethings totally backwards (sways before shocks and springs...) However this is the position I am currently in...

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

I am trying to get as much seat time as I can from a financial stand point. I have been suggested that perhaps SoloSprint would be the next logical step (from what I can actually do)

½mv²

Just curious, how stiff are your current swaybars in comparison to the stock ones, and the MazdaSpeed ones?

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

From SpeedDemon's springs springs springs:

Mazda Speed:
Front
27.2mm OD
4mm wall
13% stiffer
stock bushings will work
$
link goes here
Rear
17.3mm OD
2.6mm wall

From the RB website:
The diameter of the front tubular bar is 1.25” (32mm) x .1875” wall thickness, as compared to the stock 1.05” (27mm) x .134” wall thickness front bar.

The diameter of the rear tubular bar is .75” (19mm) x .125” wall thickness, as compared to the stock .632” (16mm) x .097” wall thickness rear bar.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Well I seem to have the Swift springs and MazdaSpeed shocks lined up. New springs 150$, shocks were used for about 5k 300$. 450$ shipped to a friend in Indianapolis who will bring them to Detroit (anything not to pay customs )

Any thoughts on how this set up (MS shocks, Swift springs, RB sways) will work?

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

After talking to a few more people, and considering that most of the replys said Koni I decided to forget about the MazdaSpeed shock and get the Konis (with Swift).

A quick general question. What is their rough lifespan?
How severly it depends on where they were set on for what they were used?

I have 47km on my car and feel the OEM shocks are already warn (especially when driving other 8s).
I am still thinking about getting a lighly used set, this has a major draw back, as far as I know the warranty is not going to be transefarable.

What is the lowest price people get them new? Seen some people post 500 shipped on a group buy of 4 sets (think that was CosmosMpower)

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

Best I have seen on one set is dpeweb.com, forum vendor, for $550 shipped.

Life span, should last a long time. However, a number of people have had front shocks start to leak, I had one after 2 1/2 years of use. But Koni stands behind them with a lifetime warranty, I got mine replaced at no cost.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the reply,

Yeah, that's why I am not sure if getting them used makes allot of sense, it leaks I am stuck with repairs...

From reading Olddragger’s comments on matching RB sways and RB springs to Koni’s I got the idea that going to a very stiff spring with the RB sways is not a good idea, so I am leaning towards the Swift.

Anyone has any ideas why the Swift springs rear rate seems kind a low comparing to others?
Should I just forget them and go with something more proven like H&R (but the drop is more aggressive) some list it as 1.25" other sites 4cm which is more.

Swift:
0.8' drop
207 lbs/inch 90-129 lbs/inch (progressive)

H&R:
1.25" drop
195/141 (progressive)

Or maybe go with another spring all together.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

A big thanks to everyone who shared their knowledge, I have decided on the Koni's and I now have to figure out what spring do I want to match up with the Koni shocks and RB sway. I will close this thread and start a new one dedicated to doing just that.

WpgDSMer

Going out of business.

Anyone know of a source with a similar price? Best I could find is $650.

CosmosMpower

I picked up my Konis from shox.com. I called and haggled with them a bit to get them to price match.

altiain

iTrader: (3)

Here is the cold, hard reality – all of the various brands of lowering springs available for the RX-8 are reasonably close in spring rates. All other things being equal, the difference in lap times from one set to another at a track day is going to be minimal at best. So pick whichever set comes in your favorite color, and quit agonizing over the decision. You won’t notice a difference from one set to another, especially if you’re a novice driver still running OEM tires and a factory alignment.

You’ll get far more benefit from upgrading your alignment and tires.

PedalFaster

Why not buy an eBay coilover kit, then have your choice of ride height and aftermarket spring rates from 150 lb. / in. to 1500 lb. / in.?

Shinka-05

as posted before in From SpeedDemon's springs springs springs the MS springs have a spring rate of much less than 280/190 ... its more like 180/100 and the shocks are what allow for the stiffer feel once on the car.

CosmosMpower

That's BS, as a 1st hand owner and autocrosser of the setup I can tell you for sure the springs are much stiffer than stock. I've driven my setup and then a stock car with the same Konis at the same settings and the transitioning is much quicker. I then sold them to a friend with Bilsteins and stock springs. He swapped them and immediately said they are far stiffer and thought about removing them. They're definetely not softer than stock.

I agree though, get yourself some tires. I'd be scared to lap the stock ones for 4 20 minute sessions.

Shinka-05

so you are telling me and Speeddemon that your butt and hands are better rating than a rate test that speeddemon did himself?

Also there is a whole section about this and maybe, cosmo, you have the spring and shock combo... Shocks make a major differance on how the car feels