HardHitter

Well, I am still learning to drive stick, I have the hang of it, but there are those times where I'm trying to go from stop to first gear where my RPM's totally shoots to around 5000-6000 before my clutch catches. Do you guys have any tips on how to get a good smooth and fast start? Sometimes I can get it, but sometimes my foot just somehow rev's the engine like no tomorrow because I let the clutch out too slow so by the time it catches my RPM's are already pretty high.

Also, during break in period, in the manual it says for the first 600 miles to not go over 7000RPM correct? Cause I saw one guy here say that break in is to not go over 4000RPM. I've tried to shift around 4000-5000RPM, however, every now and then, it gets up there around the 7000RPM. Is that fine or will that affect the car in the long run?

Next question is coming to a stop light that you know you're going to have to stop at, do you put it in nutral and then break to a stop or do you downshift? This is when you know you're going to have to make a stop.

Is it okay the "feather" the clutch or will that damage the clutch? What are things that will damage the clutch/transmition?

If you could answer those questions and just give me some hints/tips I would appreciate it. So far I am having a blast driving this car even though I've only driven it about 30 miles. I've had some bad shifts here and there, and some misjudges where I thought the clutch had caught which led to 3 stalls. (2 of them were when I was trying to "feather" the clutch to park)

dazygirl415

Ok, Hope this helps:

1) Best way to get a smooth fast start is practice. Find some empty parking lots or hills to practice on. Once your feet know what the pedals feel like, the transition will be smoother.

2) I believe you're correct on the RPMs for the break-in period. The member who posted about 4k was being very cautious. I could be wrong, but I don't think getting close to 7k will hurt the car in the long run, as long as it doesn't happen too often. The engine does need to break in. Just be mindful of the RPMs when you're driving.

3) When I know I'm stopping at a red light, I shift to neutral. You can always shift into gear if the light turns green.

4) I don't know what "feathering" is.

30 miles is much, so hang in there. Most people don't actually smooth out the bumpy ride until 4-5 months (IMO).

You also may want to do a search on the threads for additional advice. I know I've seen it around here somewhere.

Happy Driving and Welcome to the Club!!

Dazy

Jrook

well heres a tip I hope can help...i've done this with all the cars i've driven it works for me but you really have to know your car ex... how it accelerates.

At a stop for smooth fast start what I'll do is i'll quickly press the accelarator twice and while i'm doing this i'm taking my foot off the clutch. balancing the clutch and power (i get no jerks just a smooth acceleration) keep in mind your rpms will shoot up so shift quickly to the next gear.


when this happens just match the rpms with the right gear thats all.

Welcome to the club

asdfg123hk

u just gotta practice holding the gas still at say 3000rpm and i don't see why u have to keep giving it gas and rev it up...just let the car gets its momentum and let the clutch out them give it more gas?

as for coming to a full stop...the dude that taught me told me that i should downshift to at least 2nd gear if possible before coming to a Full stop. dunno why..can somebody explain why we should at least downshift to 2nd and not trying to stop in gears 3/4/5/6?

BlueFrenzy

It seems to me that you are giving far too much gas before the clutch engages. It's tough at first to find the friction point but one trick to learn how to get to that point is to go to an empty lot and WITHOUT gas, slowly release the clutch until you feel the "catch" and soon your car will move. If you let it out too quick you will stall. Once you get the idea, you can start by adding a little gas. You have to release the clutch and simultaneously apply gas. When I start from a dead stop, the RPM as I apply gas is about 1500 to 2000 at most (5000 way too much and you will get a nice screech!). So I guess, just go easy on the gas for now. You can cheat a bit by holding the revs at 1500 to 2000 while releasing the clutch.

For the break in, there's no specified procedure. The owners manual suggest not to travel at a constant RPM for too long and such. There are many break in procedure out there ... some more conservative than others. Here's a compilation of procedures that I put together when I was a noob.

RACING BEAT
- For the first 1000 miles (1609km) do not accelerate under full throttle.
- During the first 1000 miles (1609km) do not exceed 4000 RPM.
- For miles 1000-2000 (3218km), expand the RPM upwards - but do not accelerate at full throttle.
- Over 2000 miles (3218km), full throttle and high RPM is acceptable.

Rotary Mechanic
0-600 (965.4km) Follow the Manual, but keep it under 4000
600-800 (965.4 - 1287.2km) Open it up a bit, vary accelerations and speed RPM < 5000
800-1000 (1287.2 - 1609km) Drive the car, enjoy it but still keep RPM's < 6000
1000-1250 (1609 - 2011km) Drive it as it's powercurve intended it to be RPM's < 7000
1250-1500 (2011 - 2413.5km) Test the car frequently from RPM's 6000-9000 in every gear
> 1500 (2413.5km) Drive it anyway you want, U DA MAN NOW!!!!!!

some guy on the forum
0-100 miles 4000 rpm
100-200 miles 4500 rpm
200-300 miles 5000 rpm
300-400 miles 5500 rpm
400-500 miles 6000 rpm
500-600 miles 6500 rpm
600-700 miles 7000 rpm
700-800 miles 7500 rpm

Usually when I come to a stop light (about 30-50meters away), I put the car in neutral and coast to a stop. I don't think that downshifting all the way through the gears is necessary. I think in the past people used the downshifting to "engine brake" ... I'm from the school where I'd rather wear out the brakes than the clutch.

TheColonel

I didn't read the rest of that, but to start smooth from a stop, I like to blip the rpms up and then take my foot almost all the way off the gas and slowly let the clutch catch. Once it start's catching I give more gas and keep letting it out.

truemagellen

other tricks are RENT A CAR the reality is you don't want to be learning stick on a sports car...especially a new one...RENT A WRECK for the weekend and practice non-stop...this way you burn up/destroy their clutch and transmission not your high performance sports car

listen to what BlueFrenzy said...go to the parking lot and do the let out clutch till it catches and repeat...NO GAS repeat hundreds of times then add gas

fredw1

Agree. I used to downshift all the time, and went through two clutches after 55K each. Stopped this practice, and my next car went 120K before I sold it. Had a flywheel replacement near the end, and they looked at the clutch--wanted to know how long ago I had it replaced. The mechanics were amazed that it was the original. The only time I shift into neutral is when I am stopped at a long light or an ATM; not while decelerating.

As far as getting started, I think all the comments here will help. I tend to find the grab point, and then gradually give it more gas as I let out the clutch. To avoid the engine revs getting too high (which is all too common for people just starting out, so you are not alone here), in a car I am unfamiliar with, I will "pump" the gas a bit so that revs are going up and down within a 500-1000 rpm range (I think this would be 2500-3500 rpm in the 8). With this gas "rhythm" in place, I let out the clutch, and I can feel it engage either on the upswing or downswing of the rpm. If it engages on the downswing of the rpm fluctuation, then I give it more gas (the same amount I have was giving it to get to the upper range of my rpm fluctuation. Once this happens, or if it engages on an upswing, then I just continue applying the gas gradually. Sounds kind of complicated, but no one I have taught this has stalled while doing it. Once you get familiar with your car, you will know how gradually to add gas and let out the clutch.

StewC625

This has probably been said a thousand times already in this post, but here's what I told my wife when she was first learning:

1) Launching the car: The best thing you can do is learn the "friction point" of your clutch so you can hit it every time starting out. Then, (and this does take practice), ease out the clutch until you feel the friction point (revs start do drop, car starts to move) and then smoothly add "gas" while bringing the clutch the rest of the way out. Best way to practice is to go to a parking lot and practice easing out the clutch and finding the friction point. Over and over again until it's automatic.

2) Break-in: I'm not the guy to ask on that one, so I won't even attempt to comment. I drove mine like I stole it from the day I picked it up. What the F - it's a lease. My engine has to last 48 months and 48,000 miles for my purposes.

3) Coming to a light: well, there's a tradeoff here - clutching in and riding to the light with the clutch in supposedly wears the throwout bearing, while shifting to neutral and releasing the clutch makes the transmission spin at wheel speed and re-engages the clutch. So, wear-wise, it's a toss up.

There's a far different reason you should ALWAYS be in gear, even if you're de-clutched, when driving in traffic - if something happens where you need power to escape an accident, if you're in neutral, you're screwed. If you're in gear, you just dump the clutch and go. I usually "dry shift" down as I coast up to a light - clutch in, and as the speed drops, I notch the lever down through the gears so that if I need to roll back on the power, all I need to do is release the clutch and off I go, in the right gear. Notice I'm not "downshifting" and "engine braking" --- just selecting the right gear for the right speed - this was somethng I learned at Bob Bondurant's School of High Performance Driving.

4) Feathering: I presume you mean slipping the clutch to launch the car. Well, you do have to feather the clutch a little to get a smooth start, which is why the clutch is considered a wear item. But feathering any more than a "touch" can contribute to premature wear if you do it often enough. If you smell the "clutch funk" then you overdid it.

Have fun! You're on your way to being a better driver, as driving manual forces you to pay much more attention to what you're doing.

FarmerGiles

Hello Hardhitter,

congratulations on the new car, you will love it. However, I think that I'd have to agree with Truemagellen, learning clutch control on an RX8 might not be an ideal scenario. I'd be tempted to try it out on a car that has a forgiving clutch that'll withstand the punishment better and one that you don't care about too. I'm sure that you'd be fairly upset if you did cause problems with your new baby!

Anyway, parking lot testing is a good idea but the next step after that is probably testing hill starts using the handbrake. You'll need an empty road on a hill - obviously! The way this is usually taught is to keep the handbrake on whilst gradually releasing the clutch and at the same time using the throttle to maintain the revs. Once you feel the clutch start to 'bite' then gently release the handbrake. You should move gently forward and you should also have a good idea of where your clutch starts to engage, you'll find that after a couple of times you can release the handbrake almost immediately which obviously will stress both clutch and engine less. Most importantly this will stand you in good stead for the day where you have to stop on a slope and you have a car straight behind you that you defintely don't want to slip back into!

Anyway, enjoy. I've only once driven an automatic and I really didn't enjoy it. Manual is the way forward as you will soon discover!

BlueFrenzy

StewC625 ... that's an interesting technique you mentioned with the "dry shifting". Just to clarify, you are holding the clutch in while you go down through the gears right? That's a good point that you brought up with regards to needing emergency power for maneuvers.

HardHitter you could try going to www.standardshift.com for some other FAQs and I'm pretty sure that there were some earlier threads on driving manual here.

For hill starts, I went to the local shopping mall with a docking bay (mine was a grocery storee docking bay) and just practiced going up the ramp over and over. If there was a security camera I sure looked bad at the time!! To this day, I still use the parking brake technique on steeper hills

guitrblus

Hehehehe. I'll never forget when I first had to learn how to drive stick. Everyone giving me tips. My old man telling me the ins and outs. My older cousins chiming in. The best advice I can give you my friend is finding an empty lot and just keep going from first to stop. (Yes, I am aware this was already suggested, but I figured I would reiterate.) While in the lot, don't worry about shifting into 2nd or 3rd. If you get 1st down you'll have no problem with the later gears. (First is always the hardest!) As for technique, you really have to get the feel for the car yourself. Last suggestion...practice going into 1st from a stand still while uphill. You'll find that some idiots on the road like to get right behind you at a light and offer no buffer for potential rollback while the gear catches. You'll get it in no time. Drive a whole day and you'll never knew that you couldn't do it.

grapes

HardHitter- not one of the easiest cars to get smooth off the line in 1st gear. I've driven standards for 35 years and the best way to launch an RX-8 with low RPM"s is to the "feather" the clutch as you suggest. It's much easier to take off fast and just drop the cluch smoothly at about 3500 RPM's, but you'll soon be looking at a new clutch.

mitchfried

My first manual was a Mazda6s which had a "mystery" shifter - each time you shifted you didn't if the rpm's would go up or down due to a big lag on acceleration and an INCREASE in rpm's when you took your foot off the gas.

During my first hundred miles of Maz6 ownership I had to exit the local Best Buy which required you to wait for a red light while facing uphill on a very steep grade. Needless to say, some old lady stopped her car within 6 inches of my rear bumper while I was waiting for the light to change.

When the light changed I must have redlined the engine before I dumped the clutch, anything to avoid rolling backwards. The car launched like Evil Knevel jumping the Snake River Canyon.

The RX-8 is very easy to shift, and the lack of low end torque will keep you from battering the car in front of you if you over do it.

zoom44

you didnt have enough power to make it across the road and ended smashing into a wall?

Zootx8

hehe, my wife has a mazda 6s with the 5spd - you gotta love the acceleration lag - i see no problem with downshifting if you match the revs - this is little stress on the clutch - the problem is more when you downshift via engine braking and allow the clutch to drag the engine up speed with the transmission - that'll wear on a clutch.

HardHitter

I'm starting to get the hang of it. Today I kept all my shifts around 4K. I stialled it once at a light because I forgot I was in first gear when I came to a stop, lol. I used to look at my RMP's to judge when to let the clutch out from stop to 1st gear, but now I'm starting to just "listen" to the car and just knowing when to go. I am able to maintain it around 1500-2000 and then I let the clutch out to the point it catches, and then ride it with the clutch on the "catching point" until it's time to shift into 2nd, this is fine right or is it going to damage the clutch?

I practiced for about an hour or so in a parking lot and on the streets today and I really started to get the hang of it. Oh, quick question, does anyone else have a hard time trying to see behind them while reversing? For some reason I wasn't able to see anything when I was practicing going into reverse. What do you guys use? I tried looking just out the back window but I really couldn't see much but then again, they were pretty fogged up.

Car started with 190 miles and after 2 days it's around 250 miles, not many but I'm loving every mile!

mitchfried

Zoom44:

The parachute saved me.

BlueFrenzy

Hard Hitter, good to see you're not revving to 5000 anymore to start the car. I think that once you get the car going 5-10km/h, you can release the clutch and don't have to ride it until 2nd gear (puts strain on the throwout bearing). Once you get to the friction point, you can slow let the clutch go while adding a bit of gas.

I don't really have any trouble reversing the car and seeing, just a matter of how you adjusted your mirror I guess. I did find at first that the rear window is small compared to what I was use to (Corolla).

StewC625

Can't remembered who asked, but here's an explanatiion of "dry shifting":

Say you're on a 50 mph road in 5th and the light turns red ahead of you :

1) Clutch in

2) As speed begins to fall off, lever into 3rd (you can skip gears in this procedure)

3) As speed drops below 35 mph, lever into 2nd

4) As speed drops below 20 mph, lever into 1st

If you want, you can heel-toe match revs while you brake. Clutch stays in the entire time. You're braking with the brakes, not the engine.

But overall objective is to be in the correct gear at all times in case of emergency. As I said, a Bob Bondurant School of High Performance Drivinig manuever. They also teach this at BMW"s Performance Center Driving School in Spartansburg SC (where I did two days of classes in 2000).

Stew

antiver

I learned to drive stick on my first car - a 1985 toyota landcruiser. The best tip my dad ever gave me was this: Its better to be over revved than under revved. Basically give the car more gas than it needs to get into 1st gear. This will eliminate jerkiness, stalls, etc. However, in the rx8, too much rpm will spin your tires. Once you learn to drive stick better over revving, you can drop the revs down until you find the point at which you need/want to shift at. If you're watching the rpm gauge spin around while you drive, you should probably be watching the road. FEEL the car, don't read the dash. Feel the revs, listen to the exaust (drive with windows/roof open), don't use stereo. Get to know your car on a more sensual basis...

psteng19

The best tip, go out and drive it everyday knowing the bare essentials.
Unless you are the most horrible driver in the world, you should get the hang of it in a couple of weeks, maybe a month at most.


When coming to a full stop, usually I'll just keep the car in gear until low RPM and then disengage clutch, shift to neutral the rest of the way (25mph - 0mph).

The only time I'll downshift to come to a stop is if I need the extra braking power from the engine, or going down a steep slope.

Those who say that you need to keep the car in the proper gear by downshifting through each gear, how many times have you actually needed to avoid potential danger?
For me, never in my 8 years of driving.

And if you do come across that scenario, you'll usually have to downshift another gear to be in the heart of the powerband anyway, which I'll be able to do whether in high gear, or in neutral.
You're bound to need to shift down another gear, so just keep it in gear or neutral.

StewC625

Twice in 26 years of driving manual trannys. Twice is enough for me. I was also rear ended really hard once while driving a manny. I saw the guy coming in my rear view, tromped the gas and dumped the clutch all at once, and VAROOOOM! F--K! Out of gear! BAM!

Had I been in gear, I could have squirted forward and out of his way.

Don't abandon a smart driving habit because you don't think it will happen. They wouldn't teach this at high-perf school if it wasn't a good idea.

5Gen_Prelude

But why wouold you rev match while down shifting if you're not actually releasing the clutch? I personally downshift all the way until low reving in 2nd and then clutch in until I'm creeping at which point I shift into 1st (lude's have issues sometimes shifting into 1st from a standstill). Brakes are cheap, but I haven't had to replace my clutch with almost 100k of almost all city driving. Besides, this is way more fun :D

GiN

I've taught a few friends how to drive stick, using my RX-7 (with racing clutch) and RX-8 as practice vehicles. Eventually they all commented on how these cars tend to be more sensitive and "harder to drive" than other cars with manual transmission. I figure, if you can drive a manual RX-8, then you can drive most other cars.

The biggest problem with first time stick drivers is that they lack left foot/ankle/leg control. The first thing I tell them to practice is getting used to the "catch point" of the clutch - the exact point at which the engine begins to engage the transmission. On a flat surface, without adding gas, just ease off the clutch (at idle, in gear) and try to make the car crawl away from a stop. Try to prevent the rpm from dipping below 500. Do that several times a day and it becomes second nature.

I for one do no pre-revving or fluttering unless its on a steep incline.