Rx4FUN

Let me start by saying that it is a nice car, but I have a couple of issues that make me question if this is the right car for me.

First, headroom (or lack of it.) I want leather, but you have to get the GT model to get it from the factory. That means you also get the moonroof. I'm 6'5" and my head rubs on ceiling of the moonroof model. I tilted the seat back pretty far, but still had a problem. The dealer told me that the non-moonroof model adds 3 inches to the headroom. (The spec sheet says it's only 1.5 inches, but that would be enough.) To get around this issue, I would have to get the sport edition (Touring and GT both come with moonroof) and then have a third party add leather. This may be OK because then I could pick the quality of leather I want. The leather from the factory is OK, but I've seen better and would prefer preferated leather here in Arizona. In this configuration, I would loose the BOSE system. Not that I care that much for BOSE, but the standard unit doesn't cut it and an aftermarket would loose the integrated look of the factory unit. Mazda is really making it difficult by grouping the accessories this way!

Second, (as I put my protective helmet on), lack of lowend torque. Let me start by saying that this may not be a problem, but the car I test drove only had 22 miles on it, and I didn't want to rev it beyond 4500 RPM. This coupled with the fact that I only had a limited amount of time to adjust to the ins and outs of this car, left me wanting more. This may not be a fair assesment because I'm coming from a Z28 with an LS1 V8. My expectations may be way too high. During the test drive, mostly in traffic, there were many times I had to slow to 5mph and then accelerate back up to speed. Staying in second gear just doesn't cut it and shifting to first (trying to match RPMs) was difficult due to my lack of experience with this car. My Z has so much torque it is very forgiving in these situations. All I can say is that I would need to have a lot more time behind the wheel of a fully broken in car to judge the sportiness of this car for sure.

The RX-8 doesn't "feel" that fast compared to my Z28, but I did note that the 8 was actually moving a lot fast then it "felt". The seating position in the Z is a lot closer to the ground and gives you a feeling of speed as you drive it. The 8's seating position is much higher and I didn't get the same feeling. But looking down at the speedo, I was going a lot faster than I thought most times. I caught myself several times going much faster than my normal 5-10 over the speed limit.

On the positive side, and the main reason I'm looking at the car, it does handle nicely. Even on rough roads. My Z28 has a solid rear-end and you can tell, especially on non-prefect pavement. I purposely drove the 8 on some rough roads and it was perfectly poised.

Overall impression: The 8 is a finess car, while my Z28 is pretty raw. Both are fun to drive, but for different reasons. I assume that a fully broken in RX-8 will be fast, but you'll have to work harder and be very aware of what gear your in during spirited manuvers. The Z28 is fun because you don't have to work very hard at all to go fast. But get into the twisties and your concentration needs to be razor sharp to keep it on the edge. It doesn't handle like the 8, but the generous amounts of torque at every RPM from 1K - 6K can make up for some of it.

So after all this, I'm still not sure if I will take the plunge. If I could get the Grand Touring without the Moonroof, it would make my decision a whole lot easier.

block911

Buy an EVO ... problem solved.

P00Man

your supposed to rev no higher than 7000, thats 7 THOUSAND rpm, not 4500....thats your major problem right there with the torque thing, below 5k it feels pretty slug, but keep it where its meant to be 5k and up, and you WILL be put in the seat

try it again and dont baby, then see how you feel
________
Ship sale

Rx4FUN

P00Man-

I understand that you have to rev it. I was probably conservative by keeping it under 4500, but even so...

I went back to Buger's gear ratio thread to see what 5K RPM is in first gear. It's about 23 MPH. So that means any time you are moving along at under 23 MPH you will be out of the sweet spot even if you downshift to first gear. (Unless of course if you slip the clutch.)

This could get frustrating when driving in traffic. Not that that's what I like to do with a car, just a harsh reality for me. Maybe if I was buying this for a weekend car, but the idea was to have a practical "daily driver" sports car.

Sandberglar

What dealer did you go to and how many 8's did they have there? I'm in glendale and was thinking of stoping by a dealer to take a look at the 8.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

can someone explain this headroom problem to me?

The specs on my Probe which has a power seat and moonroof says it has the exact same amount of headroom as an RX8 with moonroof. I'm 6'3" and have a good 3" of headroom in the Probe. How is the RX so much smaller?!?!? I'm actually getting scared since I've never actually sat in one yet.

Rx4FUN

I ended up going to Showcase on Camelback. I heard they had one on the showroom and were offering the 8 at MSRP. Earnhardt has them too, but wanted $1000 over MSRP. I drove by Larry Miller on Bell in Peoria yesterday, but they didn't have any that I saw. When I got to Showcase they had a black one on the showroom floor and offered to let me test drive a silver one. They said they had seven more at there holding area on 7th street. I believe most of those are spoken for, but they offered to let me sit in one without a moonroof if I wanted.

Rx4FUN

pr0ber-

Don't get too worked up yet. As I said, I am 6'5" and I have a pretty long torso. My inseam is only 34". If you are 6'3" with a 32" or less inseam then you may want to check it out, but any inseam over 32" would give you a shorter torso than mine.

msydd

Us Aussies can't get the moonroof, so our GT would solve your problems. So, I'd suggest if you wait a bit the GT without moonroof will be available in the US.

RomanoM

Rx4FUN the RX-8 is a mix of 2 types of cars, the GT coupe and a 'pure sportscar.'

GT car has good performance, handling and ride but in the end is meant for touring in a low effort manner.

A sportscar is a car that requires much more effort and interaction to drive and usually comes with an engine that prefers to keep the RPM's up. Vette Z06 being an exception.

The RX is far more sportscar than GT. Not quite as sportcar as the Honda S2000, but far more than most cars in the price range. The rear seat, "free-style" doors and decent ride are nice, but in the end the car is at heart a Miata or S2000.

What you may be looking for is something more along the lines of the G35 or if you can pull the price a BMW 330.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you may be looking for a performance GT car. Until recently I've only been able to own one car at time so I always went with GT coupes or sport-sedans since 'growing-up'. For the same reasons you've stated above.


BTW-
I had one of the first "cheese wedges on wheels" back in late '94. It had the LT1 with 275bhp and the acceleration was awesome and effortless, but never once did I think of the car as a sportscar. Black with the 6 speed and T-Tops. Only had for 1 year, the car had dozens of problems, just got tired and sold it.

pelucidor

I had the same experience on my test drive. I limited myself to 7000rpm on a car with 5 miles on the odometer but was mostly driving 2000rpm to 5000rpm. The car never felt very fast compared to some other cars I have driven recently, but I was going MUCH faster than surrounding traffic and much faster than I expected when I could finally read the speedo (e.g. 85mph when I thought I was doing 65 - honest officer the LED segment was broken...). The car is so smooth and linear in it's power delivery that it's hard for the butt-dyno to tell how fast you are accelerating without an external reference point. I am hoping it will be a bit of a beast above 7000rpm or when the car is through the break-in period as otherwise it is too smooth.

You really should test drive an EVO if you want to experience OH MY GOD acceleration/deceleration at this price point. See my rather lengthy post in General Automotive.

Rx4FUN

It's funny how people always try to label things. GT, sports car, etc. And everyone has a different take on what car fits into what category. Maybe that's why I like the RX-8, it tends to blur the labels and give you a car that appeals to a large group of people for different reasons.

The main reasons I like the RX-8 are the looks, practicality, and "sportiness". This is not to say that I will ignore all other aspects that make up the complete package.

I like my Z for what it is, but it is not practical for a family. I am hoping that the RX-8 will give me enough practicality without loosing the fun to drive feeling, but I have to evaluate the car on the whole.

I don't like the look of the G35 sedan, and the G35 coupe is not practical for a family. The 330i is nice, but the looks are dated and it is overpriced. Price isn't an issue, but value is.

I may want to have my cake and eat it too, but don't we all.

Napboy

Pr0ber,

I can shed some light on the Probe GT headroom as I own a 93 GT with power seats just like yours. I drove the 8 (with manual seats) a couple of days ago and they are virtually identical in headroom. I'm 6'0 but I barely have any clearance in the Probe. Maybe an inch. My seat is moderately reclined. You're 6'3, but you either have a very short torso or the seat is reclined a lot. Either way, I'm guessing the 8 is going to be a pretty tight fit if you're normally proportioned. That's not to say that it's going to be a problem, but you won't be wearing a helmet during auto-x.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

I guess thats a bit comforting then... I actually auto-x'd my probe and still had decent headroom with a helmet on :p . I do have long legs and a shorter torso I guess.

Gord96BRG

Not necessarily, I wouldn't expect the options packages to change anytime this year at least.

In Canada, Mazda offers GS (cloth) and GT (leather) models only. The only options on the GT are the moonroof ($1000 Cdn, about $700 US) and NAV ($3000 Cdn, $2100 US, but requires the roof). That's it for options outside the accessory catalogue, but even the base GS includes Bose and the 6 CD Changer. So, here it's possible to get the GT with leather without the roof. BUT - as noted, for some reason Mazda Australia doesn't even offer the roof as an option. Different regions have put together different equipment packages.

Regards,
Gordon

BillK

No two auto manufacturers measure headroom the same, so the measurement is essentially useless...

I've also mentioned before that I'm 6'1 with a 38" inseam, but I couldn't fit in the pre-prod RX-8 at the Denver Auto Show without crunching my head into the headliner, so I'm having to wait to sit in a real one to know how I'll fit.

Even with that, though, I would have to get the Sport because both power seats and the moonroof would eat more of what little headroom there is...

BillK

Wow, I didn't know the "Gen. II" Probes got that compact.

I had a 1989 Probe GT (manual seats) and never had any headroom issues with it...

Edge

i can confirm you're not going to gain 3 inches by getting rid of the sun roof. more like an inch. i'm assuming you also did everything you could to lower the seat and or drop the back of the seat. first time i sat in one, the seat was pretty high and my head was in the liner. after pumping it down i've got more than an inch and i have a long torso and sit very tall (38" sitting height) i don't think the sunroof chews that much room because the roof goes out instead of back into the headliner. i found 3 or so comfortable driving positions that each gave diff amounts of head room. i'd recommend giving it another try to see if you missed one.

by the way, the cloth seats are awesome. i'd have no problem having a car with them in it. the base stereo is nothing to write home about. it's pretty lame.

Rich

Mazda has always sucked at putting together decent packages. I understand the benefits of packaging the cars with limited sets of options that can be ordered together, but they seem to really do a poor job of putting together good packages. I wanted my Miata with cloth seats, the sport suspension and ABS. Not possible. I wanted the cloth seats, sport suspension and remote keyless entry. Nope. Not possible. Ugh! They're doing the same thing with the RX-8, although the options work well for me personally this time.

No need for a flame suit. I understand this pretty well, again using my Miata as an example. There is no way around it - the Miata is simply low on torque *and* power. I know the power is high in the RPM range, and I spend plenty of time right near the rev limiter. Unfortunately, there are tradeoffs with everything. It's just not possible to have a light, responsive, great handling car with high HP and bags of torque in a luxury package that's reliable for $25k. I decided that for me, I could live with (and enjoy!) the horrible lack of power the Miata has because of all of the other benefits it has. No other car I've driven feels as light, responsive, and connected to the road. Well, the MR2 Spyer was there also but it's completely useless as a daily driver compared to the spacious (in comparison) Miata. I decided that the tradeoffs worked for me. You obviously are used to high torque cars, and getting used to a high-revving, high HP car takes some time. Even though they can both put up similar accel. numbers, the torquey engine *feels* stronger. Some like the zing of a little high HP engine, and others like the OOMPH of a torquey engine.
I don't think anyone here will give you any heat for having a different preference than they do, since you're open minded and understand the tradeoffs. There is lots of fun to be had by "working", as you put it, to keep the engine in the right gear. Actually, I have found that it's "working" in the same sense that eating ice cream is working. Sure, you need to put a bit of effort into it, but the rewards are well worth the effort! It also becomes second nature - and actually somewhat intoxicating - to keep the engine howling as you go around the autocross course or through the twisties. Lots of people think that shifting a manual transmission is too much work also, until they get used to it. Then driving an automatic becomes a bit boring. For me keeping the engine RPMs up is similar. Last, if you really kept the RPMs below 4500 RPM, you were only driving a 120 HP RX-8. Keep in mind the equation for HP. Power = (Torque*RPM)/5252 (if using lb. feet and HP). That means that at 4500 RPM if the torque is at 140 lb. feet (approximately), the HP is only 120!
So if it felt slow, that's why. Cut the HP in half on your Camaro and see how enjoyable it is to drive!


I hope that helps.

Goldenhue22

RX4FUN- you are complaining that *in traffic* it isn't fast enough for you. Why do you feel the need to speed in traffic in the first place. If you are looking for a car to do 0-60 in 5.0 (which it seems like you do), then in all honestly look elsewhere.

Magnesium

For one thing, the EVO is an ugly car. period. It may have the spec's to back it up, but the only people that that car appeals to these days is the < 25 year old group that's dream movie is Fast and the Furious.

Rx4FUN

I knew as soon as I said it that some one would bring this up. I'm not looking to speed in traffic, but it is a lot easier to drive a manual tranny in traffic if you have some torque down low. Changing lanes, merging, and keeping close enough to the guy infront of you not to get cutoff by the guy next to you, all are much easier if you have a responsive car. I'm not looking for a 5 second car, but I need to make sure I evaluate this car for the type of driving I will be doing. Weekends will obviously be a blast, but there will be quite a few miles of stop and go below 25MPH. I just need to decide if it will be worth the trade-off.

Edge- I was aware of the issues with seat adjustment before I went in. I played with the adjustment on the showroom car for about 10 minutes to make sure I had it as low as possible. The specs say headroom should be 36.7 inches with the moonroof. I got out a tape measure when I got home and that would be about right. My head does rub slightly, but I may be able to get used to it. Obviously running the car at the track will be out since I won't be able to fit in with a helmet.

Rich- Thanks for the lack of flames.:D When I got home I took a look at the HP and Torque curve for the car and came to the same conclusion you did. The way I was driving the car I was only using a max of 120HP. I definitely need to go back and run it all the way up to red line. (I'll make sure it's the dealers demo car, of course.) My Z28 with 120HP would certainly suck. Just goes to show you that given enough HP (355 :D ) even a brick can fly.

I've noticed that a large number of the people on this forum are coming to the RX-8 from a car which is lower in HP. Just understand that my impression of the car is coming from the other direction. The fact that I am still considering it says a lot for this car. Horsepower and torque are an addiction.

Edge

Apparently one of the slow downs on manufacturing was a redesign of the head liner to give an extra 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. The specs should be less that what's really there. This really concerned me a lot since my sitting height is 38 inches. (measured with me sitting on the floor against a wall). Good luck with the height issues. I tried very hard to fit in an Eagle Talon and a Miata for years and all I got for it was a neck that now snickersnacks from trying to be short.

FredB

Rx4FUN. I have some similar concerns about the stop and go operation of the RX-8. I'm sure that the smoothness will compensate somewhat but I can see you'll have to slip the clutch somewhat if you're moving slowly or completely stopped.

This car (RX-8) is starting to make me feel like a Yo-Yo. I want it...I don't....I want it...I don't. And my dealer called today to say that mine is here so I'm going to see it tomorrow. I'm almost ready to say give it to someone else that's waiting for Sept. Then I go look at the pics of the red ones and want it again all over!!!!! I just read a post about someone that got about 200 miles for his first tank full of gas. Mostly city driving but that's 13-14 mpg depending on how low his tank was. Help!!!!!! I can see I'm not going to sleep tonight.

Sandberglar

I went to Showcase Mazda today and checked out 4 Rx-8's they had thier. I really like the car it is gorgeous. To bad I couldnt test drive one though.

One thing I will say though is that the Lady helping me was a complete moron, I mean if I was her boss I would have fired her a long time ago. I have no clue as to how she got hired. It was offensive how stupid she was.

Did your salesman at least know anything about the car.