RX-ed

I am bummed tonight, had the 8 tested today and got abysmal compression test results. I didn't see the printout yet, but the tech called to say one rotor scored around 2.6! They insisted and did a zoom clean (decarb), tested again and fared no better.

Now they are building the case for a replacement engine, I will fax them some receipts tomorrow and they will submit to Mazda Canada.

I bought the car in January this year and it only had 44,000km, it's an '06. I don't know how a rotary is supposed to feel, but I thought it drove fine. I never was super impressed with the power, but l assumed it was the low torque.

Now part of me thinks getting a new engine would be a good thing, but I also think they may screw up other things and cause problems in the future...

Argh, NOT a good day.

dirkyd3rk

My new engine only has 600 miles on it and it feels like a brand new car! Id say its a good thing! Now when i actually give it some gas that sucker will get up and go man. My 04 gt vr has 73000 on it and im hoping my new engine will go another 73000. I knee mine was dying when it had trouble starting back up after a hot drive and when i would floor the acceleration and it wouldn't go anywhere. Good luck!

RX-ed

Thanks... I faxed my receipts and maintenance records (only 6 months worth, but I did replace coils, wires, plugs, tranny fluid, differential fluid, oil 2X, filter 2X, air filter since April) a few minutes ago... now the wait for Mazda Canada approval.

dirkyd3rk

Yeah those are the things i done as well before i took it in for a compression test! Hope your car doesn't stay at dealer as long as mine did. My car was there a month and a half; first engine they sent had poor compression second engine was gold.

dynamho

Remember to break it in properly when you get a new one. Search Racing Beat's site for recommended break in procedure.

RX-ed

Good call - I did that earlier today, it seems pretty straightforward. Hopefully a) I will be approved b) I don't get a lemon engine...

fingers crossed.

RX-ed

Well well...

Looks like I might be getting the runaround from the dealership.

I got a call from the Service Manager and in a nutshell, I am being told that:

- My receipts are no good because it can't be proven that I actually used the oil / filter on the RX-8. It is strongly encouraged to get oil changes done at a service center My answer was that owners are allowed to do their own maintenance as long as they keep receipts, how could an owner possibly be able to demonstrate that the actual oil purchased was put in the car. Am I supposed to take a video??
- I am missing one receipt for my July oil change, which was 3,000km ago. I said I would try to find it, but that even if I didn't I still had proof that an oil/filter/filter change was done 7,500km ago. Surely an engine doesn't go from fine to a compression result of 2.6 due to an oil change being done at 7,500km (which again is not the case, one more oil change was actually done).
- I can't prove that the oil used is approved by Mazda. WTF? Since when is Quaker State 5W20 not approved - the receipt clearly show the brand.
- They went back in their system to get the maintenance history (I bought the car used from a reputed dealership in Jan 2011), and found a "hole" between 39,000km and 44,000 km. That's 5,000km, which exactly the maintenance interval, so what's the problem? I also said that other owners aren't usually held responsible for prior maintenance.
- I was asked (again) why I went for a compression test, as I can't just get a new engine, there has to be a "problem". I repeated again that I was having problems with stalling at red lights, and that the two compression tests clearly showed that one rotor was completely shut. He didn't argue.

When the call started, he made it sound like the information wasn't sufficient for Mazda Canada and that I was being denied. By the time the call ended, he said that he was just calling to clarify and get additional information, and that I should get an answer from Mazda within 24 hours of the new information being submitted...

What do you guys think is going on??

mkmike103

iTrader: (3)

Certainly sounds strange.. Definitely hang tight for the next call. I wasn't asked for any receipts and was approved by Mazda (I'm in the States) for a reman'd engine.

Arca_ex

iTrader: (10)

You can call Mazda HQ and start complaining, they might be able to push the dealer into giving you a new engine... because right now it looks like they're giving you one hell of a run around.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

it sounds like someone is trying to find every possible way/reason to DENY this warranty.

I'm not sure what kind of changes they made to the engine over the years, but it does seem that earlier version of Apex seal does not last. Later Version seems to "kinda" fix that. Just my observation, nothing conclusive.

Anyway, I call those bullshit, you should just call Mazda directly and explain everything to them, 2.6 in one chamber? sounds like a stuck side seal to me. it could be a bad spring. but still requires a rebuild/replacement.

RX-ed

Thanks for the replies and advice guys, I expect a call midday tomorrow... I hope this gets resolved without the need for an escalation. It was hard for me to keep my cool when I spoke with the service manager today, but I kept thinking if I completely lose it it will only hurt my chances.

I am still hopeful.

RX-ed

Just a quick update - I got another call from the service manager yesterday afternoon: engine replacement has been denied by Mazda Canada due to lack of proof of proper maintenance. Apparently they require the last 2 years worth of receipts / records.

I mentioned again that I only own the vehicle since Jan 15, 2011 (had 43,900 km on it), and I can't provide records for a previous owner's maintenance. The SM then said that I have only provided one receipt for oil / filter change for the period between 39,000km and 54,000km, and that if I was able to provide more proof Mazda may agree.

So... I called the dealership where I bought the car in Jan and asked them to fax me the service record indicating that they did an oil change when I took posession. They did that. Then I turned my house upside down and finally found my missing July receipt. I faxed these two additional proofs this morning, and left the SM a message to let him know and I asked for a call back.

So I now have provided proof that the car had oil / filters changed at 43,900km, 46,650km and 50,570km
AND
New coils / plugs / wires at 46,650km
AND
New transmission / differential fluids at 48,140km

Surely that has to be enough to demonstrate that I maintain my car??? It's difficult for me to understand why they are giving me such a hard time when the entire process seems to be so simple for others. To top it all off, as I said earlier my 8 is still under the 5-year powertrain warranty!

Bladecutter

Simple:

Because they don't want to pay for a replacement motor.
They will have made much more money off of you if they don't replace the motor under the warranty, and then they can deny any additional claims you make against your car for the remainder of the time you own it.

What you should do is give them a public black eye at this point.

Post on their US and Canada Facebook pages that Mazda doesn't stand by its warranties if you buy their car used, and take good care of your car.

I bet someone will contact you within hours to try and help resolve the issue.
Worked recently for a person with a Fiat 500 up in Canada that had a massive issue.

BC.

RX-ed

^^now there's an idea... I will seriously consider it. I am giving MazCan one last chance (new receipts have now been submitted to them).

milkis

i just can't understand this whole dealer customer service in north america.
labor costs, over priced parts, dis-honest services and excuses...
what does it really take for them to give us the real customer service as it's called " customer service".
as someone mentioned facebook, may be that will make them understand what not to.
the power of "internet" isn't really that strong in north america.
in asia, few complaints in places like facebook, they run out of business.
because the faith of the business depends on customer satisfaction.

Bladecutter

Here in the US, "customer service" departments are considered by the CEO's and bean counters as profit sucks for a company.

They have to pay people to wait for customers to call in, and answer those customers problems. Sometimes this involves the customer service agent actually looking up proper procedures, and telling a dealership to spend the company's money on resolving the customer's issue.

All company's hate spending money on their customers, so a good portion of them put a bunch of rules into place where the customer then has to jump through as many hoops as possible. People are lazy, and most give up if they can't get the resolution they want within a couple of steps.

Other customers are really stubborn, and they have to instruct their cust serv agents to look for any possible loophole to deny giving away the company's money to these more determined pesky customers.

In this case, the OP bought the car used.
And Mazda Canada might have the service records in their system where the original owner had the car serviced at a dealer every 3k miles, but there's no way in heck they are going to tell this customer that because then Mazda would have to give him a new engine.

If all these companies could, they would fire all their cust support agents, and remove warranties from their products, as that would further increase their profit margins by huge amounts. More profits equals bigger CEO bonus'.

BC.

RX-ed

Ironically, I used to be a manager in the tech support division for a major canadian telco, and I have to absolutely agree. Our service, which was to help customers fix problems they had with our products, was seen by the company as a complete 'profit suck'. They introduced up selling in order to make the service "profitable" ("Hi Ma'am, I am sorry to hear that you are experiencing issues with our service. I can definitely help you with that, but while I perform some tests, I notice you don't have this great new product... blah blah blah...") which was more often than not completely insulting to the client who called in because the primary service which they are paying for wasn't even working in the first place!

They eventually ended up outsourcing the entire service and set up call centres in Asia to save costs. You never got the sense that the company gave a crap about customers, or that they understood that good after sales service pays off way more in the long run vs. taking a short-sighted "take the money and run" approach.

Coming back to my issue with Mazda: this whole experience has definitely soured me as a customer - regardless of the outcome. I "discovered" Mazda when I test drove and bought a brand new 3 in 2007, which eventually led to an upgrade to the 8. Upon purchase of the 3 I started recommending the 3 as a great fun to drive commuter car to friends and family. Jokingly, my brother once called me a "Mazda nut". At least 2 people I know bought a 3 based on my recommendation...

Now I frankly can't say that I will be buying a Mazda again, or recommending them. I still love their cars, but this level of customer service is just not acceptable. So do the math Mazda.

RX-ed

The *saga* continues...

I called MazCan today - I didn't want to bother the dealership Service Manager again, he seems to be doing everything he can. Once I explained the situation, the MazCan rep put me on hold twice for a long time so he could contact the "approval" dept (I can't remember what he called it), and also get in touch with the dealership to see what had been said / done / info exchanged so far.

This is what I understand now, from the information I was able to gather from this call:

The dealership has been diligently doing everything they could, but even after I sent the additional proofs, MazCan insists that I provide service records from 2007... because they can't find them in their database. Maybe the owner stopped getting the maintenance done at the dealership at that point then resumed in 2008, I have no idea. The rep was being very careful how he worded things, but I had him confirm for me that the onus is indeed on me to investigate and find those records, otherwise I am pretty much SOL.

Essentially, I am found "guilty" unless proven innocent. As the call wound up, the rep suggested I continue working through the dealership to resolve this since the Service Manager has the most information on this case, and he added that he would put a note on the file that I called and inquired about status.

I left a VM with the dealership about an hour ago. I really don't know where that leaves me now - not sure if I am crazy to still think there is a chance in hell they will honor this warranty.

Bladecutter

The only thing you can do at this point is get your dealer to look up who the original owner is of your car, and get them to contact them, and see if they might have any records on the car.

You really are at Mazda's mercy at this point.

The only other thing is to take them to small claims court, or whatever equivelent you have near you, and show the judge that the car has an 8 year 100k mile warranty, you bought the car used, on xx-xx-xxxx date, and here are all the receipts you have been able to gather together, and that it should be enough, and you've gone even more out of your way to provide what you have, and Mazda is being a bully.

BC.

RX-ed

Ok - it's official, my claim was denied. I got a call back from the SM at the dealership and he confirmed Mazda will not honour the engine warranty.

Strangely, he was adamant that the reason for the denial is that the receipts I gave them are no good, and that the lack of proof from back in 2007 did not come into play. He said that the reps at the 1-800 number don't really have access to all of the info, and sometimes talk out of their a** (well he didn't say it quite like that).

Furthermore, it turns out that the time I spent on hold was because the rep was writing up the dealership and my call was logged as a complaint against the dealership. I said several times during the call that the dealership was doing everything they could and they were keeping me updated, but that I wanted to obtain an update and explanation directly from Mazda as to the rationale behind their position. That is not a complaint call against the dealership, quite the opposite actually.

In all of this, the most screwed up thing is that Mazda is more concerned about ensuring the dealerships keep customers from using the 800 number than they are about actually addressing customer issues. So if you are a dealership, you are stuck having to be the parrot and repeat back what Mazda says, and if the customer isn't happy about it you get a complaint logged against you. That is really, totally messed up.

Right now, I am so pissed about this I'm going to go PITBULL on them. I am not letting go, they will have to explain to me why my receipts aren't receivable, and I am ready to go the distance until I get resolution.

RX8Soldier

iTrader: (24)

good luck man!
I'd hate to be denied, based off something I have no control over...

RX-ed

Thanks, I appreciate it. As I said, I am NOT letting this go.