R1one

Hello RX-8 fans , i'm new here and i hope to be here for a long time. Stroke of luck is making me getting a new car and the 8 caught my eye above all. Just got back from Mazda delear and it only excites me more then anything else , interior and exterior! Awesome! My question is, a buddy of mine did a scant research comparasion and found out that the 8 is low on torque??!! The truth is, i don't even care but the beauty, quality japan made, detail in design is Superb. I could care less about the torque. what is your opinion on this one?

mysql101

I could tell you all kinds of things, but ultimately what I say doesn't mean squat. You should go to your local dealership and test drive it. Then you can answer your own question.

R1one

Jason, ultimately i'm here for your input and it does mean squart to me. Test drive is an option but truly from you 8 owners, thats where i need info from thanks

mysql101

The 8 does have less torque than something like a SVT Mustang, or 350Z. Unless 0-60 times are the only thing you're looking at in a car, the lower torque isn't an issue. The car isn't by any means slow, and several shows have reported exact same track times between the RX-8 and the 350Z.

What makes this car shine is it's weight, it's handling, it's styling, the build quality (well, lets ignore the center console), and most of all, the unique engine that sings like no other.

When you want to zoom with this car, just make sure you keep the RPM's high (6000+), and that you take full advantage of the 9000 rpm redline. Only then will you see what this car is made out of.

Velocity-8

It's a pretty quick car but you need to know how to get the power out of it. Here's what it can do with a mildly aggressive launch...

Car# 202

Doctorr

The torque figure is a 'peak' reading, most vehicles have a low torque figure at around idle,(obviously), then a gently climbing curve until their 'peak torque' is reached, then it gets less powerful near the 'redline'.

Take a big diesel truck motor, with 500 lbs/ft of torque at 2000 revs.......2000 x 500 = 1,000,000 lbs/ft of total torque available.

Then the Renesis with 'only' 159 lbs/ft.....at 8000 revs it probably is still putting out somewhere around 125 lbs/ft -
8000 x 125 = 1,000,000 lbs/ft, just made at much higher revs.

Low down torque is obviously more useful in many ways than high revving output, but if you are able to get the revs up, the torque numbers become mostly irrelevant.
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doc

8_is_enuf

I looked at the low torque number and have to say, after a second of having my foot in the gas I am out of the torque range and into the HP range. Even still, in 5th gear going 50 MPH, I am not going to run off and leave anyone, but if I want to speed up there is more than enough availble power to do it without changing gears.

RX8_Buckeye

Huh? You lost me here. I understand the point you're trying to make, but what exactly is "total torque available"? The calculation your performing, Torque * engine speed, is power. Torque is torque regardless of engine speed. Therefore, the high redline of the Renesis really allows for decent peak horsepower more than anything since its torque curve is relatively flat. Also, the English unit for torque is lbf-ft, not lbf/ft.

guy321

True, the 8's engine doesn't produce much torque compared to other cars.

However, the low torque figures are offset by gearing. This allows the engine's output to be multiplied several times before being applied to the tires.

It's still a fairly quick car, and above all, fun!

The thrill of being pinned back in your seat is replaced by the thrill of hearing the engine at redline and still wanting more!

MrH

Your whole reasoning is off. Torque is not dependent on the RPM of the engine by any means. Torque is the force at which is turns, but doesn't take into account time at all. This "total torque" just seems to be something you made up.

The RX-8 has less torque, but like guy321 said earlier, it's geared shorter to help make up for this. There's a reason why horsepower is used to measure power in general, as opposed to torque. It takes into account time, which torque does not.

I highly suggest reading this article if you are searching for the meaning of horsepower and torque.

http://www.yawpower.com/tqvshp.html

Other_Dave

One rule of thumb is compare peak torque*redline rpm. Most 6 speed sports cars have the roughly the same speed at redline in a given gear. ~35mph in 1st, ~60mph in 2nd, ~90mph in 3rd. etc. So in a car that gets 9000rpm you've got a lower gear and therefore more leverage. This gives you more torque at the wheels than a lower rpm redline car.

By way of comparison, if we converted the Renesis' 160lb*ft of torque to a 6000rpm we have the equivalent of a 240lb*ft engine. Not as good as the Z's 270lb*ft but respectable. That's why given equal drivers, the 350Z shouldn't beat the Rx8 by more than a car length in the 1/4 mile.

Even the above undervalues the Rx8, because the rotary engine has probably the flattest torque curve available. The torque is constant for all practical purposes from 3000-9000 rpm So rather than having a big push in a narrow rpm range, the Rx8 is steady throughout the engine range.

Also the Renesis is smoother at 9000rpm than any piston engine at 6000rpm, so running it at those speeds is a pleasure not a chore. That's why Mazda puts the beep at 8500, so that pisoton engine drivers remember to shift.

Now you do have to downshift to get good highway maneuverability. At highway speeds, in 3rd it's a rocket. In 4th it's respectable. In 5th it's only adequate and 6th is for conserving fuel at cruising speed.

The more I drive the Rx8 the more I fall in love with this engine.
--Dave.

NomisR

Personally, on street starts, the low torque makes the car feels extremely heavy. However, once up to speed, the low torque is not a big factor. Additionally, with the help of the smooth reving rotory, you can keep the car at high RPM and not notice one bit because it's so smooth. I've caught myself driving around with my car at 60MPH at 3rd gear or 80+ at 4th gear and forgetting to change gears, only reason I know is because I looked down to see what gear I was at, didn't really feel anything wrong by looking at the gauges either since it was still so far from redline.

But of course, low end torque could use some improvement to make street driving better but handling more than makes up for it.

Atacdad

Go read your own url...He mislabled what he was calculating, buts its a useful comparison. I quote your url:

"...So if one horsepower is equal to 33,000 lbs.-ft. per minute, we can rearrange that to say that horsepower equals torque times rpm, divided by 5252. How do we get there?

In the above formula, force and distance are stated in ft.-lbs., and time is stated in RPM, so we need to convert our terms. First we need to express that 33,000 lbs. of force as 33,000 ft-lbs. As you now know, that is equivalent to a 33,000-lb. weight hanging from a 1-ft. lever. Then we need to express the one-foot per minute as RPM. "

Without all the conversion of terms, its still an apples to apples comparison once you take into account that its showing useful work potential (horsepower if you will)

zoom44

what the F! just everyone do a search for torque and rx-8 torque on this forum. once you are done reading those threads then come back here and ask a question if you still have it. specifically read posts by Rich, Buger, Rotarygod, Paul Yaw and Wakeech. Read some of my posts as well because i have copied and collected SEVERAL TIMES what they have said into to threads that should help you all understand. for the thread starter- yes it has "low" T when compared to some other cars but if you read the threads you will find that when you take gearing into the equation this car has actual T out put higher than other cars that have higher paper peak numbers. also this car has 80% of its peak T from about 3500 rpm to 8500rpm. this is a larger usable range of it's T than most all piston driven cars. but while the math is fun or confusing to people it comes down to how it feels to you when you drive it. most of us including myself are quite happy with the stock power. others aren't and are trying various aftermarket parts to gain more power. now go drive it and decide if it is right for you. and do the search and read those other threads.

Rupes

The RX-8 is a car whose numbers don't do it justice. Drive one, and then you can decide if its got enough torque. I just came from a 350 pound ft torque car (camaro Z28) to the RX-8 and its got more than enough for me.

klegg

Ah tha atco dragway, just 10 minitues from my house....remember the atco drive in ?

Velocity-8

I'm 10 minutes from Atco too, Shamong.

rotarygod

Low torque is a very broad statement. We need a frame of reference. Compared to a Cobra or a Z-28, sure it's got low torque, or more accurately low, low end torque. Go drive a Civic or Focus and you'll think the RX-8 was designed to pull tree stumps out of the ground. Depending on what car you come from, it may feel like you have alot or very little torque. As much as I like to help by explaining everything, this truly is one of those times you just need to drive it. Only you can be the judge of if it has alot of torque to you. To some of us it does. To others here, it doesn't. Somehow none of these people complain about it, regardless of what car they come from.

zoom44

Other_Dave- i am not "search ****-ing". i am Moderating. people had stopped answering his question and started argueing with each other about Torque. we have had plenty of those discussions on this forum. there were also mistakes in several people's posts. i am suggesting that instead of the bunch of you disagreeing with each other's choice of words and/or definitons that you all go read the other threads. other wise any answer to the thread starter's question will be lost under the bickering. as i did not have the time to do the search and post links i gave as much info as i could think of right then for the rest of you to be able to do a search and find the info. then i also gave an answer to the thread starter that i hoped would help him and also suggest he do a search with the guidelines i suggested. so that he too could read thru them and perhaps find more info. that way he wouldn't have to wade through any more back and forths on this thread. you may think of this as search ****-ing or harshness. however if you watch closely i nearly always provide links to other threads when a subject has been discussed before so that people can get other perspectives. this time i did not have the time. i was trying to make sure that his thread did not get any more hijacked than it was already becoming. end of my thread-jacking rant. if you have any more questions pm me.

thank you to rupes and rotarygod for keeping it on track.

GiN

Personally, I am coming from an 87 RX-7 TurboII. The peak torque rating on that car was said to be around 180lb-ft@3500rpm. The peak torque rating of RX-8 is roughly 160lb-ft@6000rpm. The curb weights of the two cars are similar. From what I can remember, the RX-7 felt like it had better acceleration from a standing start in comparison to the RX-8.

I'm guessing the "torque" figure helps to gauge how fast "horsepower" is gained at the crank. If that's the case, "torque" directly affects "acceleration".

In the end, the "number" will do you no good unless you feel the car for yourself. If the car doesn't "accelerate" as quick as you would like, then this low low-end "torque" figure is probably to blame.

Velocity-8

..or it's the driver. :D

Elara

This is a seriously stupid thread. This torque "argument" has been beaten to death. If you can't drive the car yourself, read the figures on the mazda site, or do a search for "torque", why are you here? I'm tempted to call troll- why else would you post something so obviously designed to **** off people who own the car? Isn't this a well-known part of the RX-8? Weak on torque? Give me a break. Compared to my mom's F350, perhaps.

guy321

It's not that it was discussed twice, it's that it's over and over and over.. it's like your idiot cousin did something dumb, then every member in your family tells your the story 5 time a piece every time they see you.. for the rest of your life!

zoom44

no dave you still missed the point. my point is that people had turned this thread into argueing about what Torgue is. my "what the F" was expressing my exasperation at this turn. the thread starter said and asked the following-

see? he didn't ask to have T explained to him. he asked for people's opinions on how they felt about the T the car has. instead of "it's sufficient" or "this thing hauls butt" or "yeah it's kinda low" people started in to discussing what T is and then argueing about each other's answer. that's what my post was directed at and why i directed people to those other discussions. if you all want to have more of a discussion about how the T is produced or how the gearing multiplies it or how T is defined, revive one of the older discussions and have it there. leave this thread to people answering the man's question- how do you feel about the torque?

R1one

Thanks u all! Although i receive more then i have originally ask but its good to know none the less.

ohh yes good point there zoom44! hehe. Just because i mention T, that does not mean i want A to Z about Torque. Another reason i ask is because, each individual has its purpose for it, for example, a street driver/Street racer/ and track racers. Not too interested in number.