any reason not to use mobile 1?
08-05-2008, 07:23 PM
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any reason not to use mobile 1?
i have always used mobile 1 until my last change we had a local shop start carrying royal purple so i gave it a shot. i know the 8 is supposed to run 5w20 non synthetic and noticed a lot of you guys run castrol gtx. any reason not to use mobile 1 in the 8? thanks guys
08-05-2008, 07:35 PM
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from mazda usa
Synthetic oil is not recommended, unless emissions components and oil injection are removed, and premix fuel is used.
Because the rotary uses oil injection synthetic oil could reduce the life of emission components such as catalytic converters and O2 sensors.
Also, the rotary burns oil to lubricate the the apex seals, and synthetic oil burns at a higher temp than mineral based oil. Repeated short trips may cause synthetic oil build up, leading to spark plug fouling.
Finally, oil sprayed inside the rotor cavities can contact the rotor oil seal O-rings, and oil inside the combustion chamber can contact the housing seal O-rings. Long term exposure to synthetic oil may cause these seals to swell and deteriorate.
If oil injection is removed, and fuel is premixed, synthetic oil can offer a slight amount of additional horsepower.
Because the rotary uses oil injection synthetic oil could reduce the life of emission components such as catalytic converters and O2 sensors.
Also, the rotary burns oil to lubricate the the apex seals, and synthetic oil burns at a higher temp than mineral based oil. Repeated short trips may cause synthetic oil build up, leading to spark plug fouling.
Finally, oil sprayed inside the rotor cavities can contact the rotor oil seal O-rings, and oil inside the combustion chamber can contact the housing seal O-rings. Long term exposure to synthetic oil may cause these seals to swell and deteriorate.
If oil injection is removed, and fuel is premixed, synthetic oil can offer a slight amount of additional horsepower.
08-05-2008, 07:41 PM
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while i wouldnt use mobile1 unless you've blocked off the OMP and are injecting 2 stroke.... the above comment from Mazda is total BS.
synthetic is perfectly fine as long as your using the right oil. its been bitched about for hundreds of pages here, yet no one seems to care what 2 decades of experience has show for rotaries burning synthetic oil....
synthetic is perfectly fine as long as your using the right oil. its been bitched about for hundreds of pages here, yet no one seems to care what 2 decades of experience has show for rotaries burning synthetic oil....
08-05-2008, 09:56 PM
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08-05-2008, 10:57 PM
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Synthetics have been used for years in rotary engines with no bad effects.
Yes, Mazda officially does not recommend the use of synthetic oils in rotary engines, however, long term and racing use has shown that the better synthetics (Redline, Amsoil, Neo, Royal Purple, Mobil1) are perfectly fine to use in a rotary engine, and will generally result in a 1 to 2% horsepower gain. However use of poor quality synthetics (like Valvoline, Castrol Syntec, Havoline, Etc) will result in build up due to high ash content left from these oils when they are burned. The poor quality synthetics do have a higher ash ratio than many conventional oils. It is believed that is why Mazda did not recommend synthetics, because the couldn't pick favorites.
Other notes:
The Mazda Factory racing departments recommend and use ‘synthetic’ oils including the winning 1991 Leman’s 20-G 4 rotor Mazda 787B.
MazdaComp USA printed manual (now Mazdaspeed) recommends the use of synthetic oils for racing conditions.
Redline, Amsoil and Royal Purple Synthetic Motor Oils have been used in rotary engines (both race and street) for 20 plus years with excellent results.
Most Synthetic Motor Oil is compatible with the bearing material, sealing elastomer's, and combustion seals used in a rotary engine.
The only reason not to use a good quality synthetic in a rotary engine is cost. With you typical oil change at 3-5K miles on a non turbo rotary, the cost is generally not worth the little gain. But if you got the money, go for it. It will not hurt your motor as it has been proven since the mid-eighties to be just fine to use... even with a fully functioning stock set up MOP.
Yes, Mazda officially does not recommend the use of synthetic oils in rotary engines, however, long term and racing use has shown that the better synthetics (Redline, Amsoil, Neo, Royal Purple, Mobil1) are perfectly fine to use in a rotary engine, and will generally result in a 1 to 2% horsepower gain. However use of poor quality synthetics (like Valvoline, Castrol Syntec, Havoline, Etc) will result in build up due to high ash content left from these oils when they are burned. The poor quality synthetics do have a higher ash ratio than many conventional oils. It is believed that is why Mazda did not recommend synthetics, because the couldn't pick favorites.
Other notes:
The Mazda Factory racing departments recommend and use ‘synthetic’ oils including the winning 1991 Leman’s 20-G 4 rotor Mazda 787B.
MazdaComp USA printed manual (now Mazdaspeed) recommends the use of synthetic oils for racing conditions.
Redline, Amsoil and Royal Purple Synthetic Motor Oils have been used in rotary engines (both race and street) for 20 plus years with excellent results.
Most Synthetic Motor Oil is compatible with the bearing material, sealing elastomer's, and combustion seals used in a rotary engine.
The only reason not to use a good quality synthetic in a rotary engine is cost. With you typical oil change at 3-5K miles on a non turbo rotary, the cost is generally not worth the little gain. But if you got the money, go for it. It will not hurt your motor as it has been proven since the mid-eighties to be just fine to use... even with a fully functioning stock set up MOP.
08-05-2008, 11:01 PM
#10
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Most here don't follow Mazda's negativity about synthetic oil in general, but IIRC rotarygod seems to have been given the impression from some Mazda engineer that it is indeed believed that there is a specific additive in Mobil 1 that is not ideal for rotary engines.
08-05-2008, 11:55 PM
#11
Also, the rotary burns oil to lubricate the the apex seals, and synthetic oil burns at a higher temp than mineral based oil. Repeated short trips may cause synthetic oil build up, leading to spark plug fouling.
Finally, oil sprayed inside the rotor cavities can contact the rotor oil seal O-rings, and oil inside the combustion chamber can contact the housing seal O-rings. Long term exposure to synthetic oil may cause these seals to swell and deteriorate.
If oil injection is removed, and fuel is premixed, synthetic oil can offer a slight amount of additional horsepower.
There could be some weird tho "Mobil only" stuff in their Mobil1 that causes problems. but if they're not almost always cost more than any other good ones like Red Line. I probably use them all the way.
if Mobil cant do Synthetic oil right. I kinda doubt anyone else can.
to the OP : Mobil1 is fine. use at least 5w30 tho. 5w20 is a joke. Synthetic or not.
P.S. : Ahh, one thing. speaking of Mobil1. their extended performance line saids its good up to 15,000 miles. hmm . LOL I wonder if I use it every 10K miles (will top up in between of course) and my engine seize. will they give me another engine? lol
Last edited by nycgps; 08-06-2008 at 12:04 AM.
08-06-2008, 12:04 AM
#12
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some Mazda engineer that it is indeed believed that there is a specific additive in Mobil 1 that is not ideal for rotary engines.
Then there are the TSBs from Mazda Netherlands and Australia that show nasty carbon clogged ports that they attribute to synthetic oil.
Ken
08-06-2008, 12:08 AM
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Since Mazda extended the warranty on the 8s engine (or parts of it) to 100K, and since Mazda officially recommends NOT using synthetic oil, is it possible Mazda can view the use of a synthetic oil in their engines as a reason to void the extended warranty?
08-06-2008, 12:24 AM
#15
I thought it was a pretty high-up Mazda engineer. And that it was more like "was not" rather than "is not." A lot of beliefs about synthetic oil come from long-gone properties of the early ones.
Then there are the TSBs from Mazda Netherlands and Australia that show nasty carbon clogged ports that they attribute to synthetic oil.
Ken
Then there are the TSBs from Mazda Netherlands and Australia that show nasty carbon clogged ports that they attribute to synthetic oil.
Ken
08-06-2008, 12:24 AM
#16
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Mobil change their formula every so ften, might be couple times a year. so I will say they did their homework and they know their stuff.
There could be some weird tho "Mobil only" stuff in their Mobil1 that causes problems. ... if Mobil cant do Synthetic oil right. I kinda doubt anyone else can.
There could be some weird tho "Mobil only" stuff in their Mobil1 that causes problems. ... if Mobil cant do Synthetic oil right. I kinda doubt anyone else can.
Better ask rg, this is already like 3rd or 4th hand.
08-06-2008, 12:25 AM
#17
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Personally, I use regular oil. Don't see the value of using a long life oil (one of synthetic's big benefits) if I'm going to change it every 3000 miles.
Ken
08-06-2008, 12:26 AM
#19
For those who want some cheap Castrol GTX + Oil filter. Autozone has a deal. 14.99 = 5 quarts of GTX + filter. not bad IMO.
For those who want Mobil1, they're doing 26.99 for 5 Quarts of mobil1 + mobil1 filters. Usually when u buy the filter alone it will cost you like 10 bux, have other brands too, see the flyer
http://www.autozone.com/images/in_ou...g8_0724_08.pdf
I dont work for Autozone. jsut wanna pass this up to ppl here : )
For those who want Mobil1, they're doing 26.99 for 5 Quarts of mobil1 + mobil1 filters. Usually when u buy the filter alone it will cost you like 10 bux, have other brands too, see the flyer
http://www.autozone.com/images/in_ou...g8_0724_08.pdf
I dont work for Autozone. jsut wanna pass this up to ppl here : )
Last edited by nycgps; 08-06-2008 at 12:32 AM.
08-06-2008, 12:37 AM
#20
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I thought it was a pretty high-up Mazda engineer. And that it was more like "was not" rather than "is not." A lot of beliefs about synthetic oil come from long-gone properties of the early ones.
Then there are the TSBs from Mazda Netherlands and Australia that show nasty carbon clogged ports that they attribute to synthetic oil.
Ken
Then there are the TSBs from Mazda Netherlands and Australia that show nasty carbon clogged ports that they attribute to synthetic oil.
Ken
Um yeah. Ignorance shines again! In case you guys forgot, when I talked to Mr. Yamaguchi-san (bigtime rotary engine boss in Japan) at Sevenstock a year and a half ago, we discussed synthetics and why they say not to use them even though they are fine. Keep in mind he personally also had a hand in the formulation of Idemitsu.
... Don't listen to the morons who think synthetic is not good stuff. It's great stuff. It's better (as long as it's not Mobil 1 synthetic). They have an additive in their synthetic that doesn't seem to get along with rotaries in the longterm. This has nothing to do with the fact that the base stock is synthetic. It's an additive causing the issues and they only use it in their synthetic line. Mobil 1 is also the most widely used and commonly available synthetic oil in the world so maybe now some people can put 2 and 2 together to see why Mazda says what they do. They assume people are morons (because they are!) so they say the safest thing they can say and then stick to it regardless of what is really going on. They can't just single out one oil. They'd get sued over it. In a time when you can win a lawsuit for spilling your own hot coffee in your lap or when judges will sue drycleaners for millions of dollars over a pair of pants, is it really so hard to see why they'd make a blanket statement to protect themselves?
...
... Don't listen to the morons who think synthetic is not good stuff. It's great stuff. It's better (as long as it's not Mobil 1 synthetic). They have an additive in their synthetic that doesn't seem to get along with rotaries in the longterm. This has nothing to do with the fact that the base stock is synthetic. It's an additive causing the issues and they only use it in their synthetic line. Mobil 1 is also the most widely used and commonly available synthetic oil in the world so maybe now some people can put 2 and 2 together to see why Mazda says what they do. They assume people are morons (because they are!) so they say the safest thing they can say and then stick to it regardless of what is really going on. They can't just single out one oil. They'd get sued over it. In a time when you can win a lawsuit for spilling your own hot coffee in your lap or when judges will sue drycleaners for millions of dollars over a pair of pants, is it really so hard to see why they'd make a blanket statement to protect themselves?
...
08-06-2008, 08:29 AM
#21
when judges will sue drycleaners for millions of dollars over a pair of pants
I have 2 more gallons of Redline. when Im done with them, screw it, Mobil1 0w40 all the way
08-06-2008, 03:45 PM
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nycgps, i just make this clear it is not my position on the subject,came across it earlier in the day and thought it was interesting ,its word for word copy and pasted from mazda website, to me its probably just a matter of personal preference as i have used mobil 1 syn. since 1999 in every car i have owned
08-06-2008, 05:20 PM
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These threads will always make me laugh.
Rotarys dont fail due to oil related problems.
In fact, i think the last oil related problem in a rotary engine was like 20 years ago. And that was because that person never changed the oil ever and it had a fuel dilution of like 80% LOL.
Rotarys dont fail due to oil related problems.
In fact, i think the last oil related problem in a rotary engine was like 20 years ago. And that was because that person never changed the oil ever and it had a fuel dilution of like 80% LOL.